A Higher Education. The need for a degree?

[Andrew Shaw]

I believe in an education. There are jobs, and positions that make me thankful for colleges and institutes. Doctors, Teachers, Police, National security. etc. I also believe that learning something that is in fact true, will never hurt you. However, college does cost a lot of money. The college I considered when I had gotten out of highschool was $32,000 tuition, and $14,000 for room and board PER YEAR! $184,000 for a 4 year education? For that amount of money, you can do a lot.

To expand on this, both of my sisters ended up going to that school. Both of them have graduated with a 4 year degree in Sociology, One of them now works for TRowePrice, and the other one is training to be a court reporter. They both went 3 and 5 years before finding something that interest them.

Tell me something, what makes it so wrong for me to think this way? Why are people so fixated on a higher education? For that amount of money, cant you teach yourself what you need to know, do some research, find some professionals...?

I went to a community college for two years, only in a handful of my classes did my "teachers" actually teach. Each class consisted of pulling out our text books and reading, that of which can be done comfortably in my home.

Im often asked, "do you go to school." I use to try and explain myself, but now my reply is always yes... Because doing what I have been doing for the past 3 years is beyond getting an education.
Not many people understand where I am coming from. I'd like to hear your view.

 

[Theo]

Interesting subject.

I come from Greece, a country that offers free college education by constitutional law, along with socialized medicine. The apparent benefits are plenty, however students tend to drag on finishing college for years. Free college education has a downside: most males end up being 30 years old before getting their first job (military service is compulsory) and end up living with their parents into their 30's.

What I like about the US is that since college education has to be paid for through one's student loans or through grants, high school kids appreciate it much more and finish on time. They are still in their early 20's with a college degree, work experience acquired through summer jobs (good luck convincing a Greek teenager to do anything but partying in the summer) and internships, plus there is no military draft. The downside is huge financial obligations, like you mentioned.

A degree provides a skill-set certification but also it comes with experiencing a social community, adult interaction and maturing in the process. Unless one is a genius in the true sense, dropping out of college is a bad idea.

 

[accent]

A degree provides a skill-set certification but also it comes with experiencing a social community, adult interaction and maturing in the process.

I agree, as far as it goes. (Very interesting insight into Greek culture, BTW.)

Skill set - yes, if you want to be a lawyer, then to enter the bar you gotta play the game. For a lot of jobs you need a degree, no matter what it says on it, as your sisters learned.

A sign of self-education is elaborate theories based on incorrect data, data that is well known in the field.

And a sign of college education is blind adherance to established theories in the face of strong evidence that those theories are incomplete.

So it depends on what your goals are. Do you want to impress potential employers with your qualifications or do you want to chart your own path - regardless of the money you earn? I think most of my college professors were droids - but there was one who deeply affected my thinking on many levels.

I played the college game for a year and a half, and was bored beyond belief. Quit for a while, came back with the idea that I would take what interested me and ignore the "requirements". I would show up for the first day of class for a dozen courses, and then register for those that caught my attention. Never bothered with a degree - got to the point where a faculty member I respected felt I was close to graduation and didn't bother to go through the motions. No regrets, but I have been self employed most of my life. That path may not be for you.

State schools are still pretty cheap. You certainly can live cheaper off-campus. State schools have a wide range of quality in their teachers. A few are terrible, most are fair, and some rare ones are superb. Or teach yourself in the library for free, but try to take a few real college courses anyway -- ones that teach you how to think. Freshman level courses and tech college courses are not enough.

I realize this is not a clear yes/no answer. Much of college is stupid. Some of it is very valuable. Make it fit you, not just you fit it.

 

[MacyT.]

I went to a community college for two years, only in a handful of my classes did my "teachers" actually teach. Each class consisted of pulling out our text books and reading, that of which can be done comfortably in my home.

That's exactly why a 4 year degree is generally required for even entry-level professions. Look, if you're a prodigy or have some amazing talent that requires you to pounce on the opportunity asap, then take the risk and skip college. But the job market in the US is getting more and more competitive. These days for a lot of jobs, a bachelor's isn't enough. You need a masters or a JD too. So if this is just about thinking college is 'stupid' - I say suck it up and get through it. It goes by faster than you can imagine.

Lastly, as was earlier said, college is more than just being about the academics. You get to mix in a diverse environment w/people from many backgrounds and even countries. You have the opporutnity to become friends with them. It's harder to make friends that are very different from you in the real world b/c you have less in common with them and become limited to your social circles b/c of work,etc.

For me - the people I met while attending a 4 year university was the biggest part of my education. Just pick a diverse school!

 

[Thomas Nash]

I don't know about anywhere else, but here in the UK the government has been increasing their campaigns to get people into University to get degrees. Offering allsorts of subsidies and pushing teachers at high schools and colleges to get their students to go to Uni and get a degree.

This all sounds well and good, however, I think way too many people go to university here now and a degree isn't something prestigious anymore so unless you went to Oxford and the likes, an employer is likely to be unimpressed by a degree. Sure, there are lots of higher skilled jobs that you need a degree for, doctors etc. But many people get a degree and then get an average office job anyway.

I don't see the point of spending 3 years doing a degree to get a job at the end of it that you could have easily done beforehand. You would be losing a LOT of money this way and I think the government needs to inform people that a degree is not a necessity unless you know what you want to do, it would maybe stop some people doing pointless degrees in things that aren't useful.

Ill be applying to University this year so know how much university is being pushed on everyone. Although I will be applying I feel a lot of my friends that won't gain anything from university are being pushed into going instead of being given the option of employment.

 

[Makis77]

In Greece, uni is just another title, by the time u get the paper on ur hands u ll be already 30 and there is no way to use ur degree in the working field.
Most people have civil engineers degree and they end up as salesmen or fast food employees.
"Free" education is not so free after all since competition to get into Uni is hard so many parents pay for coaching schools to train their kids better so they can have a better chance entering Uni.
Even then, a student can get into Uni class that he didnt actually choose and that means that he has no real interest to finish Uni or to work in the same field as his degree is when done. People here are looking just to get the paper, they dont really care what it is about.

In my teen yrs i was lucky to get a position to University located in a Greek island, i went there, stayed for one week, didnt like the way i have to live and study and went back to Athens and started my military service. I chose to do something i like than just get a degree paper. That is not common here, if we have to pay for that degree then i believe people would be more serious about their decisions.

ps: at my 30's i m attending an Open Unversity and hopefully i ll get the degree i want. This Open University is the 1st Greek University that students pay for their degree.

 

[draggar]

I went to a community college for two years, only in a handful of my classes did my "teachers" actually teach. Each class consisted of pulling out our text books and reading, that of which can be done comfortably in my home.

I went to a community college and had a completely different experience. The classes were interactive, the teachers were always there if you needed help (except one), the campus was nice. Even friends of mine who went to high end colleges in Boston, Hartdford, and NYC, and sat in with some of my classes were impressed at the quality of classes, some even said my classes were better than theirs.

Most were very impressed with the robotics lab I had, too.

I would like to go back but right now I do not have the money and with the looming recession, I need to cut every corner I can.:undecided:

 

[sashas]

Lol man. This thread couldn't have come at a better time.

I just quit college two weeks back.

So I'm 21, without a college, while all my friends are close to finishing their degrees.

I personally don't see the point of going to college to just get a job. I'm somewhat old fashioned, but I like the idea of going to college to actually LEARN something, get an education, not for just a degree and a job. The entire idea sounds repugnant, whorish to a large degree.

I blame it on our employment system which tends to look for degrees, rather than actual skills. More so in my country.

But then, personally, I've always relied on myself way too much. I came to the US all by myself to study, now I'm going back to India after an year all by myself because I felt the expense wasn't worth it (paying 20k tuition out of your own pocket is certainly not fun).


I think one thing NOT getting an education can do is make you work extra hard to acquire some skills that others don't have, skills that make you more competitive than the people who have degrees and can get jobs easier. But then again, it all depends on how you view abstracts such as motivation; the right perspective can make the whole difference.


I'll probably go to college again in a couple of years to again study English and hopefully, films later on.


I think the worst that a good education and a good job can do to you is to rob you of so much of life's experiences. I've lived in three continents, 5 different countries in 21 years. I can tell you, the perspective it brings to you is just something no degree can match. If I had a steady job, I would've been 60 before I could even begin to experience the breadth of what life has to offer.

 

[DomainsInc]

Most people believe getting a secondary education is just what you do to be successful in life. They really don't see any other option. I don't like that kind of thinking but do think it does most people good. Like many have already mentioned, unless you have degrees, when applying for jobs you're resume will likely just get skipped over. And hey, you're surrounded by tons of women just itching for sexual experimentation. I never really went to college and sometimes regret it. Though I've never really had a "real" job. I've been making my living online since i was 20 and am now 29. I sometimes wonder what i would do if i had to go out into the working world with basically no education. I've always thought about going back to learn some programming languages but there isn't much motivation when i can teach myself that stuff online.

 

[tinner666]

Reading this almost makes me wish I hadn't quit school in the 8-9th, grade.:blush:
Lack of education kept me from being anything except 'owner'. Never make Ceo of anything.

 

[Ian]

Just began my MBA which is going to cost me a fortune but again I do not consider investing in education a waste of money. The downside to it is that I have to ignore domains and forums to deal with heavy academic workload. Oh well it is life.

 

[Keynes]

I majored in history - I do enterprise SEO and Web Dev. Clearly, my thesis on late 19th century economic migration is the key to my success...

 

[GAMEFINEST]

I am a college dropout, but will be going back soon.

 

[NostraDomainus]

I prefer a mix of education and experiences, free or paid-for.

After going through 5 years of undergrade and 1 year of post-grad to get degrees in economics and applied information technology respectively, some of the best lessons I learnt was not so much from the academic side of things, but from the diverse interactions and experiences which came out of my time at school (being exposed to so many people, opinions, events and oppportunities).

Partying, traveling and playing sports (as just some examples) were just as influencial and shaping to my life as was sitting in class and writing exams listening to professors.

As an example of a Aboriginal guy coming from an isolated Northern Canadian town with less than 9000 people (where it was -40C last week), it was one thing to learn about Australia, for example, from a book or video, but nothing (not even close) was as comparable to actually packing-up shop and moving there with $800 in my pocket - going on to have the best time, education and experience of my life. (Albeit was hard not to have a good time in Australia during the change-over of the Millennium and partaking in the Olympics.)

IMO, there are more channels than just 'school' when gaining an education (which is not to say all schools are the same, as some schools are truly inspiring). Simply observe life, learn how to learn, and be critical of what you read/study - information and experience gain you knowledge, knowledge is power. I appreciate being certified by various educational institutes, but I'm not into believing the name of the school I went to is what makes me who I am (as is the way with many school/employer relationships) - my skills and character are. I've never seen a course called Integrity101 yet (and BusinessEthics101 was a joke - more of a study on oxymoronism).

For example, all I recall from PoliSci101 is a quote from my prof. on Day 1 - Politicians, for the most part, are only in office to get themselves re-elected. As for another example, my Econ101 prof. stated: Children are just economic liabilities. Not to say I totally agree or disagree, but there's alot to think about in such a statement in todays world of globalization and the flaw of putting money ahead of people and the environment.

In the end, all I can say is follow your passions wherever they may lead you, through a school or otherwise. With a lust for life and knowledge, all I know is, Ignorance is NOT Bliss. Educate yourself wherever and whenever you can and take it for what it's worth.

Party-on Wayne! Party-on Garth!

Best Success in All Your Endeavours!

 

[DomainFatigue]

I know many people who lack a formal education but are natural geniuses. And just as many who have graduate credentials but are complete idiots. That being said, a higher education, along with real world experience, usually pays off. I worked full-time while earning my undergraduate and graduate degrees at night. During that same period, in a little over 10 years, while seeking new employment opportunities, I more than tripled my base salary. A formal education, IMHO, helps develop a way of thinking that often leads to success. In most cases, an educated man realizes he knows very little - an ignorant man thinks he knows it all.

One more thing to consider Ashaw. I struggled for 10 years, so that for the rest of my life (absent a major illness, etc.) I won't have to. Many of my friends who chose not to make sacrifices continue to struggle today and probably will for the rest of their lives. Live like no one else will today, so that you can live like no one else will tomorrow...

 

[domain newbie]

Im too cool for school - bores my brain alive- whatever the subject

got my phd from ebay :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Poker]

Bottom line is happiness. If you want to go to college then you should because you will probably regret it if you don't. If you don't want to go though, there's no reason to as long as you are happy and can make enough money. I graduated with a film production degree knowing that it would mean nothing in the film world, just wanted a college education and really liked film making. I stopped working in film a few years after graduating because I was tired of all the headaches etc... and I had found ways to make $ on the web and be an entrepreneur. The freedom of having your own biz can't be beat if you like your freedom. I say fire your boss and go for your dreams

 

[HomerJ]

my random thoughts in reply to several above ... I dont think there is a right or wrong path for everyone, except as nostradomainus said (btw, that's a f'in badass name )

In the end, all I can say is follow your passions wherever they may lead you, through a school or otherwise

I went to C.C. out of high school and found it was just an extension of high school, pretty lame in general. I did not want to be there and i got nothing out of it, so i quit after 30 credits. My whole family would tell me that it was such a bad idea not to finish. bottom line is no-one knows you but yourself. I knew it was not the right thing for me at that time. had a 1.1 gpa .. was that money being well spent???

4 years later i decided to go back. but then it was different because i wanted it, and i managed to get into a big university, and guess what my gpa was that time around! :blushing:

but I have been self employed most of my life.

once you taste this there is almost no going back, i have found.

For me - the people I met while attending a 4 year university was the biggest part of my education.

and a very big one for me. as others said, its being immersed in that whole environment that makes going away to a University so much different than attending a community college and commuting back and forth from living with your folks. Worlds apart i tell you.

I've always thought about going back to learn some programming languages but there isn't much motivation when i can teach myself that stuff online.

my good friend who graduated with C.S. degree about 5 years ago says now almost everything he has learned is already becoming obsolete!

I majored in history - I do enterprise SEO and Web Dev. Clearly, my thesis on late 19th century economic migration is the key to my success...

Cognitive Science major. wanna know what the most common question is when i say that? ... "what can you do with that?" .. and i though, 'who cares?' Study whatever you are passionate about and you will excel! otherwise you get people who study economics because they think they need this to get a good job, they are miserable about learning it, .. then they get their degree, get their job .. and they are still miserable .. because they still hate economics! :scratches head: :doh!:

A formal education, IMHO, helps develop a way of thinking that often leads to success. In most cases, an educated man realizes he knows very little - an ignorant man thinks he knows it all.

well put

 

[petrosc]

Im too cool for school - bores my brain alive- whatever the subject

got my phd from ebay :smilewinkgrin:

good luck with that

 

[Tia Wood]

Ashaw, I totally agree with you from my experiences. If you're looking to become a doctor, dentist, lawyer, scientist, teacher etc, then yes: a college education would be recommended. However, I was going to college to strengthen my writing skills. I've always wanted to write professionally since I was a little girl and I thought college was going to help me get there.

Until I was stuck last year doing college, web design work, part time job and being a single mother! It made me realize how much time and money I was wasting. For one, didn't need a college education to improve my writing skills. I could sign up for creative writing classes anywhere I wanted. Secondly, it was eating up my time because I had other major responsibilities.

I quit college, quit my part time job and now I domain and design full time. I now have time for my poor daughter and simple activities such as cleaning the house! The only thing I'm stuck with now is a little college debt.

If you want to be something you can learn on your own (writer, web developer, computer technician, etc), then college may only be a slow, expensive alternative.

My husband is another example. He went for "advanced computer technician" classes to brush up on his knowledge. They didn't touch a computer for weeks. The learning pace is very slow due to several prerequisites.

The adult educational system is becoming more and more commercialized. They want you to feel that going to (their) college is the only way you'll ever be somebody. They want you to believe spending thousands of dollars will buy you the best education. (In some cases it's true. Don't get me wrong. There are very good colleges/universities out there). In most cases you're just a fish among shark.

The point is: college is not for everyone.