Can registrar refuse to transfer expired names within redemption period?

[aces88]

Hi all,

I'm looking for advice about some recently expired domain names that I'm trying to get back from 1&1. (Yes I know I should have googled 1&1 before registering names with them... my first mistake!).

Here's the story:

• My credit card company sent me a letter about a general security breach, so they issued me a new card.
• Around that same time, 5 of my domain names registered at 1&1 came up for renewal. They ran the old card and it was declined.
• 1&1 locked me out of their control panel, so all I could do was change my payment method. I entered the new card, assuming they would re-run the renewal charges.
• A couple days later I checked again. They said the new card could not be accepted. I entered a different card.
• A couple days later I checked again. Same deal -- that card had been rejected too. (Notice they don't give you this feedback when you enter the card info. You have to come back at least a day later).
• I knew those cards were good, so I finally called customer service. Turned out the original rejected charge caused them to lock my account and ban me from 1&1 permanently (!). With no notice. My only choice now was to transfer my 25 domains elsewhere.
• I spent a couple hours on the phone over two days with their dense tech support people trying to get the auth codes for transfers. They sent dozens of emails with repeated auth codes, from which I finally extracted the codes for 19 of the 25 domains.
• 5 of the 6 missing auth codes were for the domains that didn't get renewed when the credit card charge failed. They say these are now Expired Domains and so I can't get auth codes for them.
• I checked the WHOIS for these domains. On the day after the failed renewal they were all transferred to domcollect.com, a domain buyer/seller in Germany. (Since 1&1 is German too, it makes me wonder if these two firms are connected).

This seems pretty irregular to me. Aren't domains initially supposed to go into a redemption state? I don't think I've ever seen them get transferred to someone else on the day of expiration.

I'm continuing to argue with 1and1 tech support about these. The expirations occurred on May 23rd this year, and as .coms and .nets they should be in redemption for 18 days, until about June 9th or 10th. But I understand different registrars have different rules.

So, any advice? Do I have a chance to get these back? One of these domains has traffic, and 3 others have been appraised at $200 - $500 each. I'd hate to lose them because of a failed $49 charge and underhanded tactics from 1&1.

Thanks!

 

[Biggie]

note to other newbies, don't use 1&1


did report the incident to icann?
did you contact domcollect?

 

[actnow]

1&1, Sedo and Domcollect are sister companies.

I feel their actions were harsh.
But, they are in the driver seat.

You can complain to Icann but it will not help you with getting those domains back.
http://www.icann.org/en/resources/compliance/complaints/whois/inaccuracy-form

We all use to hear horror stories about 1&1.
I figured they cleaned up their act. I guess not.

Anyone that uses 1&1 as the registrar is making a huge mistake.
If anything, they know exactly how much traffic a domain/website gets and its potential value.

 

[aces88]

Thanks for the info. I guess I'll keep the option open to complain to ICANN depending on how this shakes out.


During today's calls to support, they started by saying I can't transfer the expired domains away because customers with "blocked" accounts aren't allowed to do that. (Yesterday they said no one was allowed to do it, so I guess this is progress.)


I explained that it could look like they intentionally blocked my account with no notice to prevent me from renewing those domains, so they could take them from me. Surprisingly the support person agreed that it looked bad. I was put on hold for a while.


Next they told me that I can unblock my account if I pay off the debt to the collection agency ($49 plus a big penalty). Two different 1&1 folks assured me this would work. Then when the collection agency notifies them that it was paid, they will unlock my account and I can request the auth codes again.


The problem is, thanks to the run-around these names are already 12 days into the 18 day redemption period. And collection agencies aren't known for being fast or helpful. But it seems to be my only option at this point: pay the money and hope they report it back to 1&1 in time.


And this is only to get the transfer auth codes -- they are not actually going to renew the domains for that $49, since it has already gone to collections. So they are basically holding my recently-expired names hostage until they get their ransom payment. Grrr.

 

[Theo]

You are not alone.

 

[katherine]

I have read of one instance where somebody was able to recover his domain after it had been 'transfered' to domcollect
but it was more a favor than a right

I think you need to make a lot of noise until the right person takes care of this mess - if there is one such person at 1&1.
I would get icann involved too, do not expect too much from them but at least they will (hopefully) take note of what's going at eins und eins.

From what you are saying, the names aren't premium so they may not justify hiring a lawyer. But 1&1 are notorious for sending delinquent accounts to collections. This is the next problem you are going to face if you drop the ball on the domains.

PS: 1 & 1 = 0
because everything they do is so absurd that the laws of mathematics do not apply in their universe

 

[aces88]

You are not alone.

Ha, good for that guy. I should probably check the name server history on these domains too, to see if DomCollect was tasting the traffic before they grabbed them.

I have read of one instance where somebody was able to recover his domain after it had been 'transfered' to domcollect
but it was more a favor than a right

I have a hunch it will come down to that here too -- finding the right person willing to do a favor. I spoke with their billing department again today but they say the collection agency hasn't yet informed them that I have paid. So no relief yet.

I had one more name expire with them yesterday (since I am still locked out). They transferred it to DomCollect immediately on the day of expiration - not even the day after.

Not only that, they have already put up their own parking page and are offering it for sale. What happened to the redemption period? What do they do if someone makes an offer? I suppose it would greatly reduce my chances of getting it back...

Here's what the page says (and the pages for all my other "held hostage" redemption-period domains too):

BUY THIS DOMAIN This domain is FOR SALE! If interested, click HERE! Your DomCollect Team - [email protected] – +1 (0) 21 3325 2687 Diese Domain steht zum VERKAUF! Bei Interesse, klicken Sie HIER! [email protected] – +49 (0) 221 99 55 53 0

I like how they couldn't even format a US phone number correctly.

On a side note, it turns out that the failed credit card charge that led them to block my account wasn't even for these domain names. It was for another name - a mere $9.99 charge. My credit card company denied it because it was the second transaction in as many days from a foreign company. 1&1 in Germany, of course.

Could they be intentionally sending messy credit card charges in order to block accounts? That's too much for even my conspiracy-minded brain to believe. But it's an odd coincidence.

 

[aces88]

A new scam tactic from 1and1: they now say that when they unblock my account (which they still haven't done, though I paid 3 days ago) I can only transfer my domains away if I pay them an additional $40 fee per domain. This is because it's now been more than 10 days since those domains expired. Apparently the fact that I first contacted them the day after the domains expired, and they have been stalling me for more than 10 days since then, does not change this. Nice.

Meanwhile the held-hostage domains are still parked at DomCollect and for sale at Sedo...

 

[angel69]

I won't go into details but I've always said the 2nd worst registrar in the universe is 1and1, and 2nd only to EuroScum or EuroTrash (aka EuroDNS) I told my Sedo acct manager long ago that whenever I got a domain on Sedo regged with either of those scumbags and it was in the 60-day registrar lock, then Sedo would need to keep the domain with them until I could move it out, that I simply would not deal with either of those asssholes.....

1and1 did not steal money or a dozen domains from me like EuroCrap did, but their system/site (last time I looked at it) must've been designed by an inmate in some insane asylum and I don't just say that as a glib comment, I've been to scores of sites that aren't user-friendly at all, some I go to often due to work, but 1and1 is in a special category all by itself, it is that insane. I nearly quit domaining at the beginning because it was like the 1st or 2nd registrar I was sent to when I won names on eBay and I thought they were all like that. EuroTrash and NetSol were the others I had the misfortune of dealing with early on .....was I truly blessed or what ! .... I have no words to describe the endless hours I spent on 1and1, the number of support emails I sent, their asinine replies, or how angry I got...

I've always known Sedo was in bed with 1and1, the banner ads are so prominent there for anyone who uses it, DomCollect I didn't know about. And I didn't know all 3 were owned by the same parent co. Sedo also loves EuroScum, in fact the EuroDNS WHOIS is a collaborative effort between Sedo and EuroTrash, but surprisingly...... it doesn't suck all that much ....(and I can't believe I actually said that.....)

In two words (or three lol) : DO NOT DO ANY BUSINESS WITH EURO DNS OR 1AND1 EVEN WITH A GUN TO YOUR HEAD. NOOBS OR PROS. IT WILL PROVE HARMFUL TO YOUR SANITY. TAKING A BULLET TO THE HEAD MAY BE EASIER. EURO DNS HAS A CRIMINAL MIND. AND 1AND1 IS LEGALLY INSANE

:crazy: :doh:

 

[angel69]

It sounds like all this is 1and1's doing and not really DomCollect's but they're in bed together for sure. Also, did you tell Sedo about the illegality of those listings since you're the rightful owner and they got listed there by filthy tactics by those morons ? What 1and1 is doing to you now is extortion, blackmail, theft, it's all that and more. 1and1 is just another EuroDNS....

A new scam tactic from 1and1: they now say that when they unblock my account (which they still haven't done, though I paid 3 days ago) I can only transfer my domains away if I pay them an additional $40 fee per domain. This is because it's now been more than 10 days since those domains expired. Apparently the fact that I first contacted them the day after the domains expired, and they have been stalling me for more than 10 days since then, does not change this. Nice.

Meanwhile the held-hostage domains are still parked at DomCollect and for sale at Sedo...

And Katehrine can say that again (not to expect too much from ICANN), in fact you should not expect ANYTHING from ICANN, cuz that's probably what will happen, ie that they will not do anything, I've been there, submitted grievances against EuroTrash TWICE and not one thing was ever done. Thank God DomCollect isn't that well known a service, I almost never hear their name, maybe they're bigger overseas and although I'm always leery about trying out new sites I'm glad you posted this thread, now I know to avoid them like a plague

If you're mad and you have the dough you could use an IP lawyer to at least embarrass them and help you make this a matter of public record win or lose, but it's expensive, and you can do plenty by yourself going to domain forums, fraud-reporting sites, etc (assholes.com for one, which our host DCG owns, go there for starters)

1 and 1 = 0, agreed

Euro + DNS = -100

:whoo:

........I would get icann involved too, do not expect too much from them ........

.....From what you are saying, the names aren't premium so they may not justify hiring a lawyer......

......PS: 1 & 1 = 0 because everything they do is so absurd that the laws of mathematics do not apply in their universe