Domain speculators = thieves and hijackers?

[barefoot]

Today I read a press release issued by a web hosting company (name removed) that had the following tagline:

Xxxxxxxx creates one more obstacle between a domain name and would-be thieves, hijackers and domain speculators.

Are domain speculators now lumped in the same category as "thieves and hijackers"?

I've also seen the term "domain speculators" used in an article criticizing "domain tasters". The two terms were used interchangeably in the article.

And I've seen "domain speculators" mentioned in articles that discussed cybersquatters and typosquatters. Again, the terms were used interchangeably in the articles.

Has domain speculation gotten a bad rap? If so, why do you think it has?

Has there been more negative press about the domaining business than positive?

Should those involved in the domaining business do something to educate these people who misuse or misunderstand the term, or do you think that's futile? Does it really matter?

 

[domainah]

I think for outsiders its difficult to really understand a new field of business.
The problem is also that there are two different kinds of domain speculators:

1st type: people buying names and hoping for them to appreciate in value.

2nd type: People writing to 100 people a day looking for an uneducated seller to "defraud" someone out of a LLL.com or some other valuable generic domain for little money. I think there are a lot of people here on the forum that do that. They justify that its legal business, but that doesnt make it right and gives all of us a bad reputation.
Thats nothing else than trying to buy a DiMaggio rookie card at a yard sale from a kid for $10.

 

[katherine]

Some people that are domain savvy are under the impression that ownership of premium domains should be a privilege limited to the large corporations.
It does not work like this in real life, the early bird gets to eat the worm.

 

[Giode]

I think for outsiders its difficult to really understand a new field of business.
The problem is also that there are two different kinds of domain speculators:

1st type: people buying names and hoping for them to appreciate in value.

2nd type: People writing to 100 people a day looking for an uneducated seller to "defraud" someone out of a LLL.com or some other valuable generic domain for little money. I think there are a lot of people here on the forum that do that. They justify that its legal business, but that doesnt make it right and gives all of us a bad reputation.
Thats nothing else than trying to buy a DiMaggio rookie card at a yard sale from a kid for $10.

Now Domainah, that's not really a fair assessment. Just because a person sends emails inquiring about specific domain/domains does not mean there is intent to deceive or rip off. In todays domain market, there are very few who own generic .coms that are not somewhat educated in current values. Why is this? Because these people are inundated with these types of inquiries often, and come to their own conclusions as to the value of their domain. In fact, I have found that most average people with great names have a very distorted view of values. So, it is fare to say that it is these inquiries that have also served as a wake up call for some.

If I wish to purchase a domain for a fair market value, and then do hard work associated with finding an end-user or motivated party, that is ethical. For example: last month I purchased Copies,com for $35,000. A very reasonable price for both parties. Through my marketing efforts, was able to recently sell it for $90,000. Was I unethical? No, because I took a calculated risk at a high dollar value.

 

[Kventures]

...

 

[domainah]

Now Domainah, that's not really a fair assessment. Just because a person sends emails inquiring about specific domain/domains does not mean there is intent to deceive or rip off. In todays domain market, there are very few who own generic .coms that are not somewhat educated in current values. Why is this? Because these people are inundated with these types of inquiries often, and come to their own conclusions as to the value of their domain. In fact, I have found that most average people with great names have a very distorted view of values. So, it is fare to say that it is these inquiries that have also served as a wake up call for some.

If I wish to purchase a domain for a fair market value, and then do hard work associated with finding an end-user or motivated party, that is ethical. For example: last month I purchased Copies,com for $35,000. A very reasonable price for both parties. Through my marketing efforts, was able to recently sell it for $90,000. Was I unethical? No, because I took a calculated risk at a high dollar value.

Obviously you did not understand what I was saying because we seem to agree. I think its a good think to buy domains at fair market prices and then put some real work into finding an end user, which is the first category I was referring to.

But the large majority are people that email domain owners on a constant basis not looking to pay a fair price but are only interested in finding an uneducated owner ..just look in the appraisal section and you will see the ones that "scam" people out of valuable domains and are not interested in doing work and finding an end user..they are looking to resell the domains at reseller level 2 days later.., I get 5 emails a week from people wanting to pay 2k for my LLL.coms and generics that I bought at auctions and at fair market prices..and those people are not interested in paying anything close to real value...they are nothing but lowlifes to me..

.. building a whole business on the premise to take advantage of people's lack of knowledge and them not doing research is just unethical to me thats no better than those Nigerian scammers that also seem to find victims still..

if the guy wants to sell his LLL.com for 1,000$, what am I supposed to do, offer him 4,000$?

Well...you are one of the guys that keeps emailing people about LLL.com domains... they dont approach you with an $1000 offer...you approach them thats a big difference..you are specifically looking for people that dont know the real value...you dont go in with the objective to be fair...obviously you dont think there is anything with it because thats how you seem to make a living..but all you do is give all of us a bad reputation...

 

[Giode]

Obviously you did not understand what I was saying because we seem to agree. I think its a good think to buy domains at fair market prices and then put some real work into finding an end user, which is the first category I was referring to.

But the large majority are people that email domain owners on a constant basis not looking to pay a fair price but are only interested in finding an uneducated owner ..just look in the appraisal section and you will see the ones that "scam" people out of valuable domains and are not interested in doing work and finding an end user..they are looking to resell the domains at reseller level 2 days later.., I get 5 emails a week from people wanting to pay 2k for my LLL.coms and generics that I bought at auctions and at fair market prices..and those people are not interested in paying anything close to real value...they are nothing but lowlifes to me..

Thanks for the explanation. A couple days ago I got an email asking if I would sell one of my domains for $1000. These losers hurt the industry. Mind you, this was his first email to me.

My point was, there are not many left who would sell a domain for an unreasonably low price.

 

[BostonDomainer]

Thanks for the explanation. A couple days ago I got an email asking if I would sell one of my domains for $1000. These losers hurt the industry. Mind you, this was his first email to me.

My point was, there are not many left who would sell a domain for an unreasonably low price.

Are you kidding me? how is this industry different from any other industry? You buy low and sell high. If I offer $700 for an LLL.com and get it.... what am I doing wrong. You and Domainah can pretend to be saints but seriously... how is that a scam or fraud? It's a fraud when we pretend this industry is not a true business. You have to realize that this biz is only a decade or so old. there are people out there who don't care for it... it's not taking advantage of them, it's smart investment. If I bought a peice of property from someone because i knew there was oil under it and they did not.... am I in the wrong for due diligence?

 

[phdsandman]

If I bought a peice of property from someone because i knew there was oil under it and they did not.... am I in the wrong for due diligence?

No. You are right on the money...literally

 

[tas38]

Yes nothing wrong with buying at $10k, then flip it for $125k that is just down right smart. Owner 1 don't no the real value and ask for $10k, thinking they got the upper hand. Owner 2 knows better, and sell it for a big $115k profit then owner 1 crys. 2 owner smiles all the way to the bank, so how is that in any way wrong, it's not it's just being smart is all.

 

[Giode]

Are you kidding me? how is this industry different from any other industry? You buy low and sell high. If I offer $700 for an LLL.com and get it.... what am I doing wrong. You and Domainah can pretend to be saints but seriously... how is that a scam or fraud? It's a fraud when we pretend this industry is not a true business. You have to realize that this biz is only a decade or so old. there are people out there who don't care for it... it's not taking advantage of them, it's smart investment. If I bought a peice of property from someone because i knew there was oil under it and they did not.... am I in the wrong for due diligence?

Read my post again moron. This is also how I do my business, and believe me, I do a lot more than you. I am not getting down on the process of emailing inquiries, as most will understand by SLOWLY rereading my previous post above. I have made over 200k reselling domains in the past two months alone.

In fact, I was defending it. Lumping all those who send these inquiries as scammers and rip off artist is completely untrue. This is why bdjuf agreed 100% with me. To Domainah's credit, he clarified what he meant in the next post, which I happen to agree with.

IT is a bad thing, and quite insulting, to send a blanket email to holders of generic domains asking to buy their domain for $1000. Most feel this way. Emailing and asking at what price they are willing to sell their domain for is a completely different story, and something I myself utilize. There is nothing unethical about that. If the owner comes back and ask for $3000 for a domain that is worth mid five figures, so be it. Nothing I see wrong with this. He should have done his homework on domain values, which is so readily available on the net.

 

[domainah]

Are you kidding me? how is this industry different from any other industry? You buy low and sell high. If I offer $700 for an LLL.com and get it.... what am I doing wrong. You and Domainah can pretend to be saints but seriously... how is that a scam or fraud? It's a fraud when we pretend this industry is not a true business. You have to realize that this biz is only a decade or so old. there are people out there who don't care for it... it's not taking advantage of them, it's smart investment. If I bought a peice of property from someone because i knew there was oil under it and they did not.... am I in the wrong for due diligence?

I understand what you are saying, and trying to get a top notch domain from someone that does not know better for a low price is legal as we are all people that make their own decisions, but that does not make it ethically right. I do not pretend to be a saint (although I have told people before to get an appraisal or do some research before entering into an agreement), but I am doing things wrong too, no doubt,
but in a real market, like the stock market this would not work, and that should be the first indication that there is something wrong with it..

since you like analogies so much....
...you are not defending going to yardsales looking for a bargain... you are defending ringing doorbells at old people homes looking around their houses for a Picasso haning on the wall making a $500 offer for a painting thats worth 250k hoping that someone is gonna accept it...
..again..not necessarily illegal (although some might say it is, would make an interesting case in court, and at one point it will happen)..but you know that those people doing this do very well know that this has NOTHING to do with the buy low sell high of the stock market but it is only about finding an uneducated seller...they are never looking to pay a fair price because I often respond with a fair reseller price and never hear back...building a business exclusively on the basis of taking advantage of someone in that way has nothing to do with real business.