GoDaddy Auction Reversal - Enforceable?

[mictho]

Hi DNF members -

I am wondering if anyone here has experienced this. Recently I purchased a domain via GoDaddy auction. The auction ended, I was the winner and paid. The transaction was successful and I received a receipt. This was on 8/14.

Today, I received another email from GoDaddy stating that the auction has ended... (even though it ended on 8/14), but that the original owner has just renewed. Their customer service dept. was of no help and their only response was - per some section buried in the EULA agreement, I am forced to relinquish the domain back to the original owner.

This is so counterintuitive that I have never encountered any transaction where I made a purchase only to have it taken away after the deal went through and I have paid. So from a legal perspective:

Is this enforceable?

Amusingly, I have dealt with GoDaddy before (from way back with their .asia auction fiasco) and have never had a single good experience with them. Not sure why I expected any different this time around.

Any help or insight would be useful. I may pursue this simply out of principle... Thanks.

 

[Cartoonz]

the original owner recovered his domain in the time period allowed.
You have no claim, you were refunded.

 

[mictho]

the original owner recovered his domain in the time period allowed.
You have no claim, you were refunded.

Why is the domain up for auction in the first place if GoDaddy does not have full control over the sale of the asset? Why is the original owner not given the full grace period and THEN the domain is auctioned off?

With this approach, GoDaddy is playing the middle-man who is arranging a deal that they had no right arranging in the first place given the original owner still retains final say and/or control over the outcome.

 

[Theo]

Exactly. GoDaddy is pimping domains that are still within the full reclaim period.

 

[eeedc]

Exactly. GoDaddy is pimping domains that are still within the full reclaim period.

Someone should know for sure, but my GUESS is that when the "free" (grace) reclaim period had expired, GoDaddy exects most people who passed on the "free" reclaim to also pass on the "expensive" ($80 at GoDaddy) reclaim/redemtion period. I think Godaddy then has to throw the name back into the pool at the end of the "expensive" reclaim/redemtion period.

If anyone knows for sure, please clarify.

I thought that the old backorder system was more honest. Just sell one backorder and wait for the name to expire.

 

[Cartoonz]

eeedc is pretty close with that assumption.
FYI: eNom has this too, as do most of the registrars that are involved in the "lateral transfer" system of auctioning expired names.

Before you ***** about this too hard, keep in mind that only the original registrant can reclaim the domain. This has to be set in place to mimic the VGRS "Redemtion Grace period" so as not to really have a conflict with policy.

Like it or not, the original Registrant has to be protected for a period of time to ensure outright screwups do not occur. Like I said, before you gripe too loudly - realize it could be your domain on the auction block without your knowledge.

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 PM ----------

and the reason they do not wait until the end of all such periods before auctioning off the names is because, if they did, that would require the Registrar to renew each and every domain expiring and pass the refund period.... so if a name is of no interest, it is still stuck in limbo for an eternity.

 

[angel69]

mictho, look at the whois for the name, use gd's own, if the orig registrant reclaimed 17 full days after the exp date (there's only a limited period once those 17 days after exp have passed when he can do that, as i recall it's 25 more days after the 1st 17, total = 42 days after exp altogether but that includes the "registry redemption" also when the penalty is > $80 i think, i don't remember when this last phase starts exactly) then what they did to you they also did to me when i was a noob, i agree it's a f...ing turnoff to get a name in auction, maybe at a great price, just to have the orig owner take it away from you, however, if the orig owner reclaimed within 17 days of exp date then gd's actions have become really low, auctioning off names during the no-penalty 17 day period following exp, i've never come across any name reclaimed unless it's in the $80 penalty phase but perhaps they're doing this nowadays.......

i also agree totally w/eeedc's point, the chances of an owner reclaiming once the 1st 17 days have passed are much lower w/the $80 penalty, so while it's lousy to take a chance your name could be taken away from you after you won it, it's not likely anybody will shell out $80 for a not so hot name, especially in a down market when no one will pay $80 for it, (funny this is exactly what happened to me, i had let a name go thinking i couldn't sell it for a long time to come, and a guy contacted me asking me to redeem it for $80 and he'd refund me for the $80 + a small premium, he checked out ok as far as full name, email, etc and sounded serious, i took the chance, and he never contacted me again, there i am w/a lousy name for which i paid $80 + renewal to a happy go daddy, on top of what i paid for it originally......

also, backorders come into play, i'll recheck the rules, i have that in text and we had actually discussed it in a thread right here in 09 i think, as i recall if there is a backorder then the name is given to the b/o holder and does not make it to auction, if this is wrong i'll repost (when you win a name in a gd auction look at the "won items" section, it'll tell you "yours on xx/xx/xx", as of that date then even the orig registrant cannot take it back and it's your to keep no matter what.......

cartoonz also makes a good point, what if it was one of our names that we forgot to renew, and it was a good one, i'd like the chance to get it back, even for $80, wouldn't you ? lol ... but having stated that i'd much prefer names were auctioned off beginning on the day the orig registrant no longer has any claim on it

 

[Cartoonz]

...i'd much prefer names were auctioned off beginning on the day the orig registrant no longer has any claim on it

Which is a technical impossibility, for reasons I have already stated.

 

[eeedc]

Which is a technical impossibility, for reasons I have already stated.

I would say it's LEGALLY impossible for the reasons you have stated.

They could always change the laws to say give GoDaddy and others the right to auction off a domain within an additional 5-day window. But I would "tax" the hell out of GoDaddy, say 50% of the price, for the privilege.

 

[Cartoonz]

no, technically impossible...

You really don't understand this process as much as it seemed before.

 

[eeedc]

no, technically impossible...

.

How is it technically immpossible for ICANN to change the rules/laws to give Godddy and others a window after the reclaim period to auction off domain names? The easiest way would be to just shorten the reclaim period by 3 or 5 days. Or they could just allow GoDaddy to keep the domains for 5 more days for free. Certainly the computer programming for this is not technically impossible?

 

[George Verdugo]

sucks !!!

 

[Cartoonz]

wait.. now you're making an argument to give the Registrar even more authority and rights than the Registrant?
WTF?

 

[angel69]

cartoonz, i think eeedc understands the issues, you may just not agree w/us lol, any problems gd may encounter in trying to auction names off after the 42 days would be legal in nature, not technical it seems, and it's not an "impossibility" imo, the later comments eeedc made give a plausible alternative if gd wanted to move in that direction plus they'd reg/ren the names they want only, not everything that's not wanted, i did agree w/catoonz's own comment that gd would have to reg/ren the dropped names before any auction and thus my comment i wished auctions began once the owner can't reclaim anymore, gd is huge, they'd pay next to nothing for reg/ren the names that have a chance plus not all auctions of gd expired domains start @ $10, i thought that was the case earlier and that it was pretty automated but later i started seeing auctions w/a min bid of $12 and even higher so if they think names can be sold they would not lose the reg/ren fee necessarily or just would not lose much.......

there is a limbo period after those 42 days when the owner can't reclaim anymore, ie names do not become available for reg on the 43rd day, there's a 10 day or so waiting period when nothing happens, during this window the name has no legal owner but technically icann/registry controls the domain, something could be done during this time and eeedc pointed out that and that the reclaim period could be shortened, i agree and if icann doesn't mind about gd's questionable self-perpetuating 60-day registrar lock which only they get away with, maybe they won't mind gd changing/bending industry rules to make more money from more auctions !

 

[Cartoonz]

the issue is that the period of time the registrant has to reclaim the name is longer than 45 days from expiry.
The 45 day grace renewal period is not going to change.
The 30 day RGP period was set up by ICANN to protect the Registrant, that's also not going to change.
What the Registrar DOES have control over is how long after the name reaches expiration, they either delete it or auction it... you can argue for a shorter period before such an occurence, but that will scr3w the Registrants... not good. The only way that plan could work would be to strip the name from the Registrant after ~2 weeks... seriously, how many people is that gonna plss off? See, the Registrant has to be afforded an equivalent of the 30 day RGP to keep from running afoul of ICANN... and even that still leaves these lateral transfers a grey area.

Really, the only way you can be sure a name is yours free and clear immediately is from a deletion auction, a true drop... those have already gone through the official RGP handled by Verisign.

Technically, sure the Registrar could eat the Registry cost of renewal for every expiring name but then none would ever be deleted and the Registrar would again run afoul of ICANN's warehousing restrictions... this would not be good for anyone, including the Registrants, Registrars, and anyone else that might want to register whatever worthless names are caught up in that twisted scenario perpetually.

You need to understand, the RGP (Redemption Grace Period) is different from the Grace Renewal Period... RGP is a 30 day Registry hold on a name at the Registry after the Registrar sends the DELETE command.... the Grace Renewal Period is the 45 days a Registrar has to send that command and still be refunded the Registry fee for the auto-renewal.

Now, what the Registrar does have control of is how far into the Grace Renewal Period they go before either sending that DELETE command or Auctioning off the name for Lateral Transfer. Either way, the name still needs to be redeemable for a reasonable amount of time to allow the Registrant an equivalent of the RGP.

Before you cry that all names should be deleted (as is a common response) know that the reason Registrars have gone to this Lateral Transfer method is to keep the WLS (Wait Listing Service) from becoming reality.... Verisign would love to have ICANN mandate a strict forced deletion policy... and, trust me on this, you'd be scr3wed and locked out completely then.

So really, the current blend of timing may cause the occasional hiccup - like the OP has experience, but it really is the best we can hope for from all sides. And perpetual renewal of ALL expired names by any Registrar is a technical impossibility, even BloDaddy would balk at that.

You see, it isn't how "I feel" about this, it isn't "my opinion" is different from yours, no.... what I have tried to demonstrate here is the practical and technical procedures as they are... not how I "wish they were". I do know exactly how this process works and why it is the way it is. Is it perfect? No. Is it going to change? You'd better hope not... the alternative is not pretty.

As for how I do feel about this, my opinion tends to be that it is the Registrar's PRIMARY Responsibility to protect the Registrant of the name. That is their function from the start of the Registrar/Registrant relationship. To get too greedy, too fast, without possible redemption, at the end of the registration term is not conducive to that responsibility. I would rather my Registrar was looking out for my interests in exchange for my registrations that are mine rather than trying to appease the jackals and hyenas fighting over names that go past expiry (of which I am also a charter group member).

 

[hotspur]

Well It happened to me as well..so every time after winning an Expiring auction from GD, you just have to hope that the owner does not renew....painful waiting I would say..especially for those single word expired domains that someone had won. Perhaps the owner is lurking to see if their domain name is worth any penny..at all..

 

[eeedc]

While thre are advantages and disadvantages to everything, I don't think 3 or 5 days on either side of a 42 process is a harsh burden.

A disadvantage to the current process is that some auctions will be reversed - the subject of this thread.

I would also guess that it's the most valuable domains that get reversed, either becuase the owner pays the $80 or some domain name speculator contacts the owner and says, "I'll pay you $250" for Shrewd.com which you are about to let expire." With the prospect of many reverals, the "auction" will attract fewer bidders being less efficient.

 

[Cartoonz]

it isn't a 42 day process to begin with... you guys are imagining that as being the sum total of the process.
The two periods of time I illustrated above cannot run concurrently, they must run consecutively.

There used to be a good illustration of the "deletion process" on SnapNames somewhere... that is pretty much what you're looking at.

 

[eeedc]

All "lateral" sales/auctions could be banned, but then people would spend huge amounts on trying to register names when they expire, which is not a good social use of resources. They should be using their computer skills and computers to do something else.

In short, I don't see that any system of reallocating valuable expried domain names is perfect.

 

[Cartoonz]

that's the thing, if lateral sales/auctions were banned, we'd have WLS...