For Sale How To Be Released (TBR) registrations actually work

[CanSpace]

We've noticed that lots of people seem confused about To Be Released (TBR) domains, so I've created this little article to enlighten people on how the registration process actually works.

This information is only relevant to dot-ca (.ca ccTLD) domains. So if you aren't interested in Canadian domains you can stop reading here.

I'll start off with the basics and then move on to the more technical stuff. If you're already familiar with the basics feel free to skip over the first section.

The Basics

When CIRA releases a canceled/expired dot-CA domain name, it becomes available for registration during a special registration period held every Wednesday between 14:00 and 15:00 (Eastern time). These domains are called "To Be Released" (or "TBR" for short) domains.

CIRA maintains a list of domains available during the next upcoming TBR periods on their website at: http://ro.cira.ca/tbrlist_p. There are usually a few thousand, and often times they can be incredibly desirable, and potentially very valuable.

TBR domains can only be registered through a CIRA certified registrar, and are registered on a first-come first-serve basis. Any TBR domains that are not registered during the TBR period become available for normal registration after.

The More Technical Details

Registrars can only submit registration requests for TBR domains during the TBR registration period. Each registrar is only allowed a single connection to CIRA's TBR server once the TBR registration period starts, and can only submit one registration request every 5 seconds.

Once again, TBR domains are registered with CIRA on a first-come first-serve basis. CIRA does not engage registrars in any sort of bidding process. Therefore, paying a registrar more to register a TBR domain does not give you a greater chance of winning the domain. Simply put, the registrar who puts in the request first will win the domain.

So for a very simple example, if one registrar submits a registration request for a TBR domain (ie "test.ca") at 14:01 on Wednesday, and then another registrar submits a registration request for the same domain at 14:02, the first registrar would have already "won" the domain.

The key to getting the TBR domain you want is finding a registrar who will put in the registration request for you first.

Each registrar may have dozens or even hundreds of TBR domain orders. Since they can only submit 1 request every 5 seconds, it may be several minutes before they actually end up submitting your TBR order, and by that time it may already be gone.

Common Misconceptions

There is a bidding process for TBR domains (FALSE):

Many CIRA registrars will accept a TBR order for a particular domain, and then accept another TBR order for the exact same domain. In this situation, registrars will often make the competing registrants out-bid each other for the privilege of having the registrar submit a TBR order on their behalf. Put simply, bidding more at a registrar for a particular domain does NOT necessarily give you a better chance of getting that domain. Again, it all comes down to which registrar submits the registration request for that domain first.

Registrars with multiple "shill" bidding companies have a greater chance of winning your domain (FALSE):

As mentioned earlier, each registrar only gets a single connection to CIRA's TBR servers. To get around this restriction, some registrars have set up "shill" corporations and registered them with CIRA to get additional connections to CIRA's servers.

Logic would dictate that these companies have done this because they have many TBR orders. Once again, choosing a registrar with multiple "shill" bidders does not necessarily give you a greater chance of getting the domain you want (it simply gives them a greater chance of getting more domains overall).

For example, say we have Registrar A who have a total of 10 shill bidders, and 200 TBR orders. If each of those shill connections make 20 registration requests, we can guess on average that your order will come in 10th.

If we also have Registrar B who has only 1 TBR connection, but guarantees you that they will place your order first, Registrar B will in all likelihood win that domain. In fact even if Registrar B places the order for your domain 2nd or 3rd, they will still most likely win that domain.

A registrar who guarantees you a specific spot in line is much more likely to win the domain you want than a registrar who has multiple shill bidders.

Then I should choose an obscure registrar who won't have many TBR orders (FALSE):

CIRA has two methods for registrars to register TBR domains during the TBR registration period. They can either log in to CIRA's web interface on their website and fill in the TBR order form, or they can use an XML socket interface to submit an automated request.

Registrars who do not often deal in TBR domains will not have automated scripts set up to register TBR domains, and simply log into the registrar webpage at CIRA's website and manually fill in each order. By the time they've just begun to fill out the form, other automated scripts would have already filled all of clients' TBR orders.

Having a reliable and experienced registrar on your side is key to obtaining the TBR domain you want. Find a registrar who have scripts that are highly optimized, have synchronized their servers' times to that of CIRA's servers (so they can get the orders in at 14:00:00 on the dot), and registrars who have low latency between their servers and CIRA 's servers.

These may seem like trivial issues, but with valuable TBR domains, every millisecond counts.


That's it for now! I would be happy to answer any questions...

 

[DOTCA]

Thanks for sharing and nicely put. Finally someone thought of it well. Appreciate it.

 

[CanSpace]

Thanks, we think that our new "Front of the Line" guarantees may be of particular interest to DNForum members (and dot-ca domainers in general). Long story short, they guarantee that we will put your TBR registrations in FIRST. The 1st in line option nearly guarantees we'll get the domain you want (obviously a useful option for particularly desirable/valuable domains).

As mentioned earlier, the only way to guarantee you get the TBR domain you want is to have your registrar put in a registration request before any other registrar does. CIRA only allows each registrar a single connection to their TBR system, and registrars can only submit 1 registration request every 5 seconds. These limits are strictly enforced by CIRA's systems and there are absolutely no exceptions for any registrar.

So basically what we're is offering to guarantee that we will place your order first with a "front of the line" guarantee. When you choose a "1st in line" guarantee, we are essentially guaranteeing you that we will place your TBR registration request immediately at 14:00:00 EST (the moment the TBR registration period begins). By choosing the "2nd in line" guarantee, we guarantee that we will place your TBR registration request at 14:00:05 EST. By choosing "3rd in line" we guarantee your order will be placed at 14:00:10 EST, etc etc.

The "1st in line" option is obviously the most expensive, and in many cases virtually guarantees you will get the domain you want. Often times 2nd, 3rd, or even 10th in line is sufficient to guarantee the domain you are after (don't forget that other registrars may have dozens of TBR orders to put in, and they may be submitting them manually). The further along in the line you are, the less the option costs.

Once the "1st in line" option is purchased for a particular registration period, it will not be available to anyone else to purchase. (You can see which spots are available for the next TBR period on our TBR order form).

Also, unlike other registrars we do NOT make registrants out-bid each other. Once your order is placed for a particular domain, we do not accept any more orders for that domain.

Again, please let me know if you have any questions about these 'guarantees'. Also, DNForum members can feel free to PM me directly for a 25% discount on our TBR registrations (including front of the line).

 

[thebutler]

I think you've left out one important thing about how these companies "work" the system. Pool, Sibername etc have 10 plus .ca registrar companies (Sibername1, Sibername 2 etc.). lined up and hitting the CIRA machine on Wednesday at 2:00pm. So if Pool has 20 .ca registrar companies pinging at 2:00pm they have a better chance than some other companies.

If you are referring to this additional companies as "shill" bidders thats misleading. They are legit companies and they paid some decent bucks to CIRA. I don't think its great because big companies just get bigger but hey its the system (they win more and make more money).

I totally understand your business model and hopefully it'll work for you. Anyone can see who wins TBR auctions and how fast the names get reg'd by looking at sibernames recent results info. Is your system going live on Dec. 8th and what registrar name will you be using?

 

[CanSpace]

I didn't mean to mislead anyone or be disrespectful by referring to them as "shill" bidders... in fact CIRA themselves often refers to them as this (which is where I picked up the term). Indeed they have paid big bucks to CIRA... it costs several thousand dollars for each additional ones.

However my point still stands. These additional "extra" (or "shill" as I refered to them earlier) registrars only help the registrar themselves to distribute their own TBR domain registration load. They help the REGISTRAR to ensure they will be able to get more TBR domains.. however they do not inherently ensure the REGISTRANT a greater chance of getting the TBR domain they want.

Assuming they have 200 TBR orders, and a total of 10 "extra" registrars doing work, each of those "extra" registrars will submit 20 orders. There's no guarantee in what order they will submit them in.

A registrar who goes in and submits an order for a particular domain FIRST, right at 14:00:00 EST has the greatest chance of getting that domain, regardless of how many 'extra' registrars they have. If several registrars are all submitting their orders at the exact same time, then it's all up to chance pretty much (and whoever has more optimized scripts).

So once again, finding a registrar who submits your order FIRST is still more valuable.

 

[theinvestor]

I am not sure i completely understand the system. Are you saying i can secure the first 10 spots? Then i can get a refund if you don't get the domain?

How does this business model work if i backorder the same name in 10 spots? You get it in spot 1 but you can't get it in 9 other spots. So are you losing that revenue potential ?

 

[CanSpace]

Unlike other registrars, we don't make our customers "bid" against each other. When a customer places an order for a domain we will ONLY go after it for that customer. Once someone orders a domain for TBR, we don't allow any more orders for it.

So our system wouldn't let you order the same name in 10 spots. Even if it did, it would be pointless to do so as you would only need to order the best spot available anyway. If a domain isn't available during the first spot it won't be available for the next one.

But yes if you order a particular spot in line and don't get the domain, you will receive a full refund. We are actually going to update our system for the next TBR session so we only do an AUTHORIZE transaction on your credit card, so you don't get billed until you actually win the domain (as opposed to billing you and then refunding like other registrars). We've already done that for some dnforum members this week.

 

[theinvestor]

Sounds good but this is where i don't like that system.... it seems this week the first spot is available. So if someone is quick enough they are able to get a top domain in a 2nd spot... if there are no other names valued at your $350 set up fee for first of the line...then 2nd of the line really becomes first. There needs to be some method that it isn't just first come first serve.

$350 just seems too little if there is a name valued to me for $5000. The reason other TBR registrars work so well is because of the competition. I see none here just who can get the spot first.

 

[CanSpace]

That's really the benefit of the system IMO... you get bumped up for free. The person who purchased our 2nd and 3rd spots realizes that no one is likely to purchase the 1st spot this week as there is nothing incredibly desirable. And even if someone did, they are confident they will get their domains in the 2nd and 3rd spots anyway.

Your post really only makes sense from a REGISTRAR'S perspective. Sure it might be more profitable for us to make people "bid" for the top spot... but we aren't doing that. For example if a week down the road there is a VERY desirable domain, someone might go put in a "bid" at another registrar... not knowing for sure if they will get out-bid or not, and not knowing if the registrar will place their order early on in the TBR session.

With us if you buy spot #1 in line for a particular domain, you are GUARANTEED that we will put the order first, and no one will "out-bid" you. So for a few hundred bucks with us, you have just as good a chance (if not better) than putting down a $7000 "bid" at another registrar for a very desirable TBR domain.

We aren't "domainers". In fact CIRA has very strict rules disallowing registrars from owning domains or reselling. We just believe in providing value and not "exploiting" our customers. This is also reflected in our yearly prices ($9.75... lowest in Canada).

Edit: upon reading your post a 2nd time... perhaps you just meant it's not "fair" that a person might put down a $5000 bid for a TBR domain at another registrar whereas a second person might just buy our top spot and get that domain for significantly less? well to be fair we are just conducting our TBR process in the same method as CIRA... first come first serve!

Our system may change sometime down the road... but for now, this is how we're conducting business.

 

[theinvestor]

I understand all of that my point is...you can't really guarantee that you will be able to even try at exactly 14:00:00. Each week it is a different registrar who can get the name right at the starting gate. If you want customers like me to use your website there needs to be competition.

First come first serve...does not seem fair to me. They all have auctions. So, are you telling me for each top name each week i am going to have to rush to get in my top of the line at your site? Can i just tell you in advance? I don't see how this is a sound business model - no offense. I'd rather you have bidding on the spots. If i find a spot more valuable i'd like to pay more.

Good luck anyhow but i'll stick with backordering at every other registrar.

At least i know a domain will reach its value and not just given to someone for a mere $350 because they got there first.

 

[CanSpace]

Theinvestor:

We don't 100% guarantee that we will be the first registrar to go in at 14:00:00.000000 on the dot... but we will try our damned hardest. What we are guaranteeing is that we will put your order FIRST in our own queue. And like you said, there is just a good a chance of us getting it as there is of someone who bid $5000 at another registrar.

First come first serve is the entire foundation of the domain name industry... that's how domain names in general are registered and given out, and like I said, that's how CIRA themselves conducts the TBR process. We are just passing that along to our customers.

Who knows... somewhere down the line we may in fact make people bid on top spots... but for now, we're trying things this way

Anyway... TBR session is coming up soon... good luck everyone

 

[theinvestor]

That's really the benefit of the system IMO... you get bumped up for free. The person who purchased our 2nd and 3rd spots realizes that no one is likely to purchase the 1st spot this week as there is nothing incredibly desirable. And even if someone did, they are confident they will get their domains in the 2nd and 3rd spots anyway.

Exactly, so on any given week when there may be a top name for $5,000 and names that are pretty much worthless. I would just take the 2nd or maybe even the 3rd spot. Since i know the first 2 spots may not be taken...and even if they do it won't be with the name i've already submitted in a spot.

So what we have here is a registrar that may actually succeed with picking up domains that are less valuable.


Good luck to you as well. I hope the system works.

 

[CanSpace]

Bear in mind there are more people bidding on TBR's than just domainers. Many people want a domain to start a business around and they are willing to pay a few extra bucks to GUARANTEE that they get it (ie #1 spot). The domain we submit first in some cases won't necessarily be the domain that has the highest bids at other registrars.

So you could purchase a very valuable domain at spot #3 and someone could still take the spot above you.. in which case you have less chance of winning. That's why it would be prudent to simply purchase the top spot in the first place.

I do see your point however and it is a valid one. We are still fine-tuning everything, and one thing we may do down the line is not guarantee a specific domain if someone purchases a spot in line above you (ie customer A wants test.ca in spot 5, and then customer B wants test.ca in spot 2). However to make things fair in this case we would give customer A the opportunity to move up to a higher spot first before forfeiting their domain order.

Ultimately we just want to find a way to be "fair" to customers.

Bear in mind we are new... and we are open to suggestions from the domaining community... that's why we're here!

 

[DropWizard.com]

I'm a little confused.

My understanding is the registrar can only submit one registration request every 5 seconds PER DOMAIN

Also I don't believe ALL the domains are deleted in one block at precisely 2pm but drop during a 45 minute interval?

Could you clear those questions up for me.

Any registrar worth his salt with a bidding system is going to look at his top bidded domains and place those first in his list. Although I take it that your system would quite frequently be cheaper for real quality domains. If you can get that spot. We'll need a script now to access that first spot as soon as the domain list is published:lol:

Always interesting to see a different take on the drop system.

 

[CanSpace]

Hi DropWizard,

Nope... one registration request every 5 seconds per registrar period. As per CIRA's technical manual:

Once a REGIS_TBR_DOM function call is submitted to the TBR system, all subsequent REGIS_TBR_DOM function calls will result in an error for the next 5 seconds. This is the case whether the original functional call was successful or resulted in an error. You should also be aware that, in addition to the foregoing rule, you may only submit a REGIS_TBR_DOM function call to the TBR system no more frequently than once every 0.5 seconds. If you submit REGIS_TBR_DOM function calls more frequently, you will incur a 10-second penalty period.

And ALL the TBR domains for a particular period become available at 14:00:00 exactly. Technically they are all available for registration until 15:00:00, but in most cases the most desirable ones go almost immediately (within a few fractions of a second after 14:00:00).

We can generally get our first request in at at least 14:00:00.010 (or earlier)... however this time our request for netbooks.ca was about 0.001 seconds later than namepros. We're still tweaking... but there's a limit to how much tweaking one can do. I think at some point it just comes down to luck. We're experimenting with getting servers closer to CIRA... we actually have one now with a <1ms latency (ping)... but even still it's harder to get more precise than 0.001 seconds... at that level things are beyond your control.

And you're probably right.... registrars have the most incentive to get the highest bid domains... so they probably do put them first. But for the bigger registrars with multiple bidding entities... each entity probably goes for a different domain... and again getting in at 14:00:00.00000 comes down to luck. That's why even though some registrars are able to put in 10 bids or so at once, one of the small guys still got netbooks.ca

Bear in mind not ALL the good ones go first... we got nuitblanche.ca on our 2nd try... which we think is a big steal.