Im Kinda In A Dilemma...

[Flubber]

Hallo all,

I want to keep this anonymous as possible, please excuse the x & y'ing if i start doing it. ;-)

Righto,

A few months ago i was hired to do a ecommerce job. I was thinking 'Yeah, this'll be over in a month or 2, he seems like a nice guy and i can get 1/2 the payment first for security'.

So i went along with it, started the work and recieved X / 2 amount of the money (X Being The Money We Agreed, So Half First). So i thought yeah, seems good, he didnt have specific specs so i could work my magic. About 3 weeks passed and i finished all the editing and sure enough it wasnt perfect, that was fine a couple of changes to what he liked and the site was done on my behalf, or at least i thought it was.

But then i found out how many products he had, after about 5 weeks the site was done, it was just the adding of products. He expected me to add over 1000 products to the site, wanting me to copy the images and description from another site. At this point i said to him that its wrong to do that and that i wasnt going to add the products.

After talking for a couple of hours we decided that i would take 1/4 off the main price so that he would add the products. At this point i was pretty mad, but i wasnt going to add 1000 products and also copyrighting another site. So i spent a couple of hours writing him a tutorial on how to add & edit products & categories. Another week passed and he had only added about 50 products, not only that but every day he was asking me 'How do i do this? How do i do that?' I ended up making more and more changes to the site including editing every single product because he didnt know how to css the tables.

Another couple of weeks passed, and another 50 odd products added. So i spent a weekend editing all of those and at least an hour a day answering his questions. Now we are getting to the stage of 'making the site live' and even more problems have started to arise. After trying to explain the concept of hosting and domains for a day or 2 he was still clueless on how it all works. At this point i was feeling very :dead: and felt like packing it all in. But i knew that it would get me in trouble finacially & with paypal etc. so i had no choice but to carry on.

Now we reach today, im still editing every single product he adds, answering all his questions and slowly trying to teach him that he doesnt need a whole server for a site thats going to get like 10 visitors a day for the majority of the next couple of months. I feel like im trapped, i want to get out of this. I have school and exams this year, and this is the last thing i need. I fear this is going to drag on for months, maybe even years as i dont think he gets the concept that nothing is perfect. Maybe its my fault for not setting some rules at the start like a time limit.

I was thinking i could pass the job on to another designer, but ive been so busy with school etc. i havnt had the time. And now even my own sites are suffering from neglection.

I really dont know what to do, if i just walk off im Y richer, wiser but i still have the guilt and possibilty of legal action.
If i stay my education will suffer largely, and my life is gonna be a misery for a long long time.

What do i do? This guy is really starting to push me saying 'Why wasnt you online yesterday?' and stuff like that, and i have to hold myself back from flipping at him and stuff. He's starting to get very ignorant and doesnt understand that i have many other things to do in my life. I cant afford to pay him the money back, let alone about 3 months of my time wasted. Thinking about it, a number of around $200 for 3 months work really is , and i doubt im going to recieve the other lot for a long long time.

Its my birthday tommorow, and it really doesnt feel like it. This has brought me down so much, i just want to get rid of it all, and im seriously thinking of just walking. No matter the consequences.

Please advise...

:emba: Flubber :emba:

PS. If anyone wants to finish this job, i'll be more than happy to let them do so. PM for the details.

 

[Biggie]

you should have got the job specifically itemized.

cost for basic template
cost for adding each product
cost for adding content
cost for server location/connection
cost for hosting
cost for initial consultation
cost for extra consultation
cost for daily/periodical maintenance

etc.

 

[dodo1]

This is a difficult situation for both you and your client. I'm sure he doesn't
want to bother you, but he does not seem like a person who is familiar with
domain names and websites at all. So he is clueless about what to do and
how to do it as long as he has to do it himself. That's why he pesters you
with questions.

Now, how to get out of this? First of all, you should have discussed all the
details of the job with the client before accepting the job. However, it's
too late for this now, of course. I would talk to the client and tell him the
truth, namely that you have no time to continue with doing the job, etc. due
to the immense time this ecommerce job devours.

The client will accept this if you're lucky and you can go and let him do the
site himself right by now.

If he doesn't want to let you go, then the situation gets really tricky and you
might want to think about possible legal actions (from both your and his side),
because he could sue you if you stop working for him before his site is done.

I can't give you any further legal advice. I'm sorry for that.

So you should wait for others to reply to this thread. What I have written
above is just my two cents on this topic. I hope I could help you at least
a bit.

I wish you good luck with dropping out of this. Keep us updated, please.

 

[Flubber]

you should have got the job specifically itemized.

cost for basic template
cost for adding each product
cost for adding content
cost for server location/connection
cost for hosting
cost for initial consultation
cost for extra consultation
cost for daily/periodical maintenance

etc.

Yeah, ive learnt that now. Its just a shame ive got to learn in this way. This has been my first major job, and i guess i made a 'schoolboy error' :emba:

Flubber

 

[izopod]

Give him a "end date"...After that he's on his own. If he tries to sue you (which he won't) he would surely lose as you have done a lot of work for little pay. In anotherwords, he's not out anything. You can break agreements, you just have to make sure you have put in "enough" time and "effort" for what you were paid.

Good luck!

Hallo all,

I want to keep this anonymous as possible, please excuse the x & y'ing if i start doing it. ;-)

Righto,

A few months ago i was hired to do a ecommerce job. I was thinking 'Yeah, this'll be over in a month or 2, he seems like a nice guy and i can get 1/2 the payment first for security'.

So i went along with it, started the work and recieved X / 2 amount of the money (X Being The Money We Agreed, So Half First). So i thought yeah, seems good, he didnt have specific specs so i could work my magic. About 3 weeks passed and i finished all the editing and sure enough it wasnt perfect, that was fine a couple of changes to what he liked and the site was done on my behalf, or at least i thought it was.

But then i found out how many products he had, after about 5 weeks the site was done, it was just the adding of products. He expected me to add over 1000 products to the site, wanting me to copy the images and description from another site. At this point i said to him that its wrong to do that and that i wasnt going to add the products.

After talking for a couple of hours we decided that i would take 1/4 off the main price so that he would add the products. At this point i was pretty mad, but i wasnt going to add 1000 products and also copyrighting another site. So i spent a couple of hours writing him a tutorial on how to add & edit products & categories. Another week passed and he had only added about 50 products, not only that but every day he was asking me 'How do i do this? How do i do that?' I ended up making more and more changes to the site including editing every single product because he didnt know how to css the tables.

Another couple of weeks passed, and another 50 odd products added. So i spent a weekend editing all of those and at least an hour a day answering his questions. Now we are getting to the stage of 'making the site live' and even more problems have started to arise. After trying to explain the concept of hosting and domains for a day or 2 he was still clueless on how it all works. At this point i was feeling very :dead: and felt like packing it all in. But i knew that it would get me in trouble finacially & with paypal etc. so i had no choice but to carry on.

Now we reach today, im still editing every single product he adds, answering all his questions and slowly trying to teach him that he doesnt need a whole server for a site thats going to get like 10 visitors a day for the majority of the next couple of months. I feel like im trapped, i want to get out of this. I have school and exams this year, and this is the last thing i need. I fear this is going to drag on for months, maybe even years as i dont think he gets the concept that nothing is perfect. Maybe its my fault for not setting some rules at the start like a time limit.

I was thinking i could pass the job on to another designer, but ive been so busy with school etc. i havnt had the time. And now even my own sites are suffering from neglection.

I really dont know what to do, if i just walk off im Y richer, wiser but i still have the guilt and possibilty of legal action.
If i stay my education will suffer largely, and my life is gonna be a misery for a long long time.

What do i do? This guy is really starting to push me saying 'Why wasnt you online yesterday?' and stuff like that, and i have to hold myself back from flipping at him and stuff. He's starting to get very ignorant and doesnt understand that i have many other things to do in my life. I cant afford to pay him the money back, let alone about 3 months of my time wasted. Thinking about it, a number of around $200 for 3 months work really is , and i doubt im going to recieve the other lot for a long long time.

Its my birthday tommorow, and it really doesnt feel like it. This has brought me down so much, i just want to get rid of it all, and im seriously thinking of just walking. No matter the consequences.

Please advise...

:emba: Flubber :emba:

PS. If anyone wants to finish this job, i'll be more than happy to let them do so. PM for the details.

 

[Flubber]

Thanks for all your speddy replies, im having problems keeping up! :cheeky:

Dodo1: Thanks for your 2 cents. I really dont want to get into any legal action over this as i am still in school and im sure its the last thing my dad wants to deal with.

izopod: Thanks, it sounds like a good option. But i really dont feel confident to just come out and say that its gone on long enough. Say i have no 'cajones' but i dont want to get into any 'trouble' with anyone over this.

The only real option i think i have is to pass the job on, as if i just give him a date and the date is reached and i give him the backup, i really dont think he has the knowledge of what to do next, how to hire someone else. He only approched me due to word of mouth.

Im not a patient person, let alone a teacher. I dont think i can handle him much longer, and leaving him a sitting duck makes me feel guilty.

Flubber

 

[Bender]

first of all, Happy Birthday.
Unfortunatelly things like that just happen.There are a few things that you could do to avoid that, and I am sure you will do this in the future:
-make a project description(if the client did not give you his own) stating :" I will do that , that and , that.I will finish this on this date, and after that you'll have 3 months of bug fixing.Additional requests require additional contract(s), and additional $$$".
-make sure he UNDERSTANDS the project description and agrees with it.
-stick with your part of the agreement and make sure you point him to the initial agreement if he is trying to change the rules "on-the-fly".
At this point, you can only go back to the initial agreement(just before he paid you $X/2 ) and tell him that your part is done, and ig he wants more work, he needs to pay more.Hopefully he wont :-D
Hope this helps.
Good luck,
Daniel

 

[Flubber]

IT Web Team: Thanks, you could give me a present as well if you wanna...
I guess i could try going back to the agreement, but i'll have to rehearse what im going to say to him.
He actually offered me Mid $xxx to add the products after he himself realised how trivial it would be, but i refused as i knew that would mean yet more work.
Call me stupid but even if he offered me that again, in the finacial dire that im in, i would refuse as my education is more important.

Flubber

Yes, a teenager can be in 'finacial dire', never take loans off your parents, bad idea.

 

[dragonhawk]

Next time you should tell him that he did not cover this in the original discussions. Then you show him past emails detailing what you promised. I usually send the client an email listing out everything that I'll be doing for him. Anything that he wants extra, I ask for a description and send him a quote (in addition to the original cost).

If you did send him an email containing the requirements, then you should refer that back to him... that you are doing all this extra because you are nice. Not because you are obliged to. You need to make them understand this.

Or just tell him to go get a fully managed dedicated server and if they have any questions, ask the web host

 

[JMJ]

I did a site for a friend as a favor. Gave the "friend" price and regretted it every day from then on. Spent the better part of three months designing, redesigning, adding content, changing the content added at first since it was outdated by the end etc. I eventually finished it and I would guess with the time spent I probably made $2.50 an hour but you live and you learn. For your first few projects you might have to bite the bullet to get a few references under your belt.

A satisfied customer you might never hear from again. An unsatisfied customer might haunt you for years to come.

 

[Gerakus]

Happy birthday Flubber, sorry to heard that happend to you, you should learn a valuable lesson from this and move on, like everybody does .

About what to do? better talk to the customer about it, and come to a new deal, if he want's adds that wasn't agree on the first contract, you both need to talk.

Dont drop the project, that would make him angry and you look bad, plus you never want a customer angry do you =P.

What i suggest you:

make a list of everything you are doing, ask yourself should i do this!?
if you shouldn't mark them, put a price for it, organized every idea you have
once you finish this, talk to the customer, tell him that the project is getting outhand, due tasks that you shouldnt do, because you are a developer or whatever... you need to realized, even if that wasn't any specs, you have to put limits, otherwise you would get screw, even if you think is too late, is all right to make such limits now....

Oh well i hope this helps you .

 

[Jack Gordon]

First of all, shame on you for not having everything spelled out in a written contract.

But, that lack of preparation is the same thing that will protect you from being sued. He doesn't have a case, and if he tried, all you would have to do is show how much time and effort you have actually put in to this project. Additionally, the dollars involved seem below the threshold where it would make sense to sue, especially on such a weak case.

Of course, this is not legal advice, just practical advice.

 

[teamwork]

Moviedomains is completely right.
There is no case without a contract in place.This should be the law part.

The practical one.
For such amount of money, it's kind of too much from your client to ask you for more and more.

Explain him everything, your thoughts, how you feel, the difficult situation you are into, and as many said above, put the limits in a new aggrement , which will be of the form " In next 10 days, I am going to complete exact the following steps 1,2,3,4,5 and that's it. Our deal id over and you would expect to get paid for that. From this point on he could ask you to help him, but with a certain amount of money, per hour, or per task.

Don't be afraid to ask things. You didn't know all the things from the begining, he didn't know the details, a lesson for both of you.

You will be start to act as a professional if you put the limits, even now, after the missunderstanding. You will get more respect if you draw the line now.

good luck

 

[glw]

Do not do any more work, until you both agree to terms for more work. Outline deadlines and quantity of work for you, payments and expectations for him. If he threatens legal action simply say, "you want to go to court and complain how I stopped working on your project where you wanted me steal copyrighted material from another website? OK, let's go."

I NEVER give my friends a special deal. They pay full price, I might give them a few "extras", but they pay and they get a contract.

 

[Flubber]

Thanks all, i'll be sorting this tommorow and i'll let y'all know how it goes.

All of your comments are much appreciated.

Thanks Again

Flubber