L-L-L.com's and N-N-N.com's relative value against LLL.com's and NNN.com's

[Bill Roy]

This summer we saw the 'sell-out' of all L-L-L.com's and N-N-N.com's. The present bottom line for each seems to be $50 - $80 respectively, this represents an increase in profit of 600 - 1,000% over reg fees, and thus the highest rated movers on the domaining aftermarket.

The present bottom line purchasing cost would equate presently to about circa. 1% of the value of the corresponding LLL.com or NNN.com.

Questions

1) At the present rate of growth this figure will reach 10% by May next year, do you expect this to happen sooner or later?

2) At what percentage of the corresponding LLL.com or NNN.com do you expect the L-L-L.com's and N-N-N.coms to level out at?

Just thought it would be interesting to find out the general feeling on these questions.

 

[Biggie]

This summer we saw the 'sell-out' of all L-L-L.com's and N-N-N.com's. The present bottom line for each seems to be $50 - $80 respectively, this represents an increase in profit of 600 - 1,000% over reg fees, and thus the highest rated movers on the domaining aftermarket.

can't say i totally agree with that statement, as there are other "hand-reg" names that sell equal to or above those percentages.

The present bottom line purchasing cost would equate presently to about circa. 1% of the value of the corresponding LLL.com or NNN.com.

Questions

1) At the present rate of growth this figure will reach 10% by May next year, do you expect this to happen sooner or later?

2) At what percentage of the corresponding LLL.com or NNN.com do you expect the L-L-L.com's and N-N-N.coms to level out at?

Just thought it would be interesting to find out the general feeling on these questions.

i think the values and frenzy of "L-L-L" will soon fade as the newbies start to get more experienced.

while "LLL/NNN.com" values will continue to rise


one fallacy, also imo, is when some try to make a "value percentage comparision" of a domain in .com extension, down to other extensions.

i assume this is what you're getting at:


that if a "LLL.com" is worth $10K, then a "L-L-L.com" with the same letters would be worth x percent of the "LLL"


i'm not saying that there is no market for "L-L-L.com" as people will buy anything!

i just think it's a low level market for others to "come-up" on within the "reseller" community. as these type of names are hard sells to end-users.


it's good you brought up the subject as it leads to another subject of "conflicting" valuations and buying frenzies in the dn world.

hyphens...

on one hand you got a bunch of crazies buying and selling "L-L-L" names.

then on the other hand you got people who don't like even 'one hyphen' in a domain?

now you got a market for names with 2 hyphens?



u tell me

 

[Bill Roy]

can't say i totally agree with that statement, as there are other "hand-reg" names that sell equal to or above those percentages.

Please let us know what other distinct group/s have shown such a rise, or indeed more, in value since August this year?

i think the values and frenzy of "L-L-L" will soon fade as the newbies start to get more experienced.

while "LLL/NNN.com" values will continue to rise

So it is only 'newbies' who have purchased these names? That will tickle some of us owners, me in particular! This definately smacks of the 'I don't see a value so therefore they are worthless. Unfortunately it would seem that the real world does see a value and perhaps the 'old-timers' or those who are blinkered to what happens in the real world should stop dumbing down real people, how they think and act!

one fallacy, also imo, is when some try to make a "value percentage comparision" of a domain in .com extension, down to other extensions.

i assume this is what you're getting at:


that if a "LLL.com" is worth $10K, then a "L-L-L.com" with the same letters would be worth x percent of the "LLL"

The first sentence does not relate to the second here, I have not 'cross-valued' extensions at all, it is .com with .com. Although your second sentence is what I was basing my questions on.

i'm not saying that there is no market for "L-L-L.com" as people will buy anything!

This is such a bland put-down it does not do you merit Big. Just because you do not see a value does not mean it is either below par, shoddy merchandise, or whatever, it just means that to you it has no value. I recognise that a Rembrandt or Monet has a huge value, but not personally to me, that does not mean they are not worth millions, just not from my pocket (unless I know I can trade them on at a profit that is).

i just think it's a low level market for others to "come-up" on within the "reseller" community. as these type of names are hard sells to end-users.

They are such hard sellers that the percentage of developed L-L-L's already is over 20%, does that sound like a hard sell to you?

it's good you brought up the subject as it leads to another subject of "conflicting" valuations and buying frenzies in the dn world.

hyphens...

on one hand you got a bunch of crazies buying and selling "L-L-L" names.

then on the other hand you got people who don't like even 'one hyphen' in a domain?

now you got a market for names with 2 hyphens?



u tell me

As I have stated elsewhere in other threads some hyphenated domains are good domains, and some are ludicrous IMHO, however, using an example I used earlier today:

penisland.com - banned from my childrens school network

penis-land.com - banned from my childrens school network

pen-island.com - full access allowed!

k:

 

[hugegrowth]

Good questions, it's possible that domainers noticed this trend and bought them up faster than the aftermarket is demanding them. I'm one of the ones that bought.

I think internet and domain use is still young, so there is a lot of room for growth. L-L-L and N-N-N will probably have steady growth, nothing fast because domainers have good supplies right now. The good sales will come in the next year or two if you have that one domain with the right initials a company or end user is looking for.

Bottom line, if you want a .com with three letters or numbers, you need to pay a high amount without hyphens, or get a better deal with the two hyphens. The LL-L and L-LL names are taking longer to sell out and don't look as good, so those aren't as good an option as L-L-L.

N-N-N should rise faster than average L-L-L because there are only 1,000 of them, and numbers are more universal.

As for price predictions, very hard to say, but LLL.com names used to be cheap and now are gold.

 

[CyrusL]

They are such hard sellers that the percentage of developed L-L-L's already is over 20%, does that sound like a hard sell to you?

This logic is really flawed to me when used in regards to recently reg-fee names.

A perfectly normal reason for the high % developed of L-L-L.com is that the buyers were priced out of their LLL.com when they developed. That is, as LLL.coms went on the rise big time the last few years, end users who weren't going to drop $10k on a domain name chose a lesser version for $9. If anything, I can see this hurting the L-L-L.com after market since it establishes the buyers as typically small spenders and kills the chance of that once in a while 6-figure sale that LLL.com owners get. Now that L-L-L.com is bought up, I predict this "type" of buyer moving on to something else like L-L-L.net or LLLastword.com .

Say 5 years from now LLL.com is 100k and L-L-L.com is 10k. What do you guys think buyers are going to do? I'm guessing either the LLL.com or a lesser reg-fee name. My experience has been the types of buyers that have already committed to spending tens of thousands on a name don't have a hard time raising their budget, they just expect the best of the best in return.

As a caveat, I can see there being room for L-L-L.com when the LLL.com is developed and not going anywhere for a zillion trillion dollars. Time will tell whether end users choose L-L-L.com over LLL.net or a lesser .com. End users are, after all, who we should be following for all this.

 

[hugegrowth]

The thing is, there are buyers at all price points, and everyday new people and businesses deciding they need a domain name for something or other. .com is already shown to be highly preffered over .net. If there is a market for LLL.com at xx,xxx to xxx,xxx, then surely there can be a market for L-L-L.com at xxx to x,xxx.

 

[eq78]

The logical owners of L-L-L.com are not looking or expecting xxx,xxx sales they are simply looking to sell $7 for anywhere from $50 to $200 reseller, to $1000 to $5000 End user. I have had interest in 80% of the L-L-L.com I own at anywhere from $100 to $1000 not bad for $7 regs 4 months old IMO.

Businesses use acronyms and do not mind hyphens the way domainers do. The number is actually over 25% developed and the German .de market is also a big market and they love hyphens. I have recently regged L-L-L.de getting 3 to 6 uniques a day.

I agree you cannot be looking for the LLL.com homerun, but they are a good reg fee investment IMO.

 

[domainah]

I think with the further growth of the internet its only a reasonable conclusion that L-L-L and N-N-N will rise further. There are only so many 3 letter combos. Any if someone thinks LLL will rise in value and be developed furter, so will L-L-L...the fact that 20-25% of L-L-L are already developed point to an increased rate. L-L-L will never just drop again for reg fee..even more so the N-N-N...

And I agree that L-L-L wont be worth mid xx.xxx like LLL might be in a couple of years, but I can see low to mid x.xxx, which is a great deal if you can get them now for $50-75 for a L-L-L or 100-250 for a N-N-N...

 

[PRED]

i think the values and frenzy of "L-L-L" will soon fade as the newbies start to get more experienced.


i just think it's a low level market for others to "come-up" on within the "reseller" community. as these type of names are hard sells to end-users.



on one hand you got a bunch of crazies buying and selling "L-L-L" names.

then on the other hand you got people who don't like even 'one hyphen' in a domain?

now you got a market for names with 2 hyphens?

interesting view point

here's some enduser sales and reseller sales for you to 'gem up' on
http://bluebecker.com/domains_sold.html

Nice sale on dnjournal today
B-A-R.com $3,500
New owners: http://whois.domaintools.com/b-a-r.com

it's good as makes perfect sense. bar.co.uk is owned by british association of removers
bar.com is parked and no doubt owner wants mid 6 figures, if for sale.

logical purchase was what they bought


actually a good buy imo
looked at their contact email, and they are using www.b-a-r.uk.com as a site currently

this is definitely a step in the right direction for them.

this is why we are seeing more and more L-L-L.com enduser sales

also there are quite a few LLL.com owners investing in these too on the reseller market

 

[000]

Questions

1) At the present rate of growth this figure will reach 10% by May next year, do you expect this to happen sooner or later?

2) At what percentage of the corresponding LLL.com or NNN.com do you expect the L-L-L.com's and N-N-N.coms to level out at?

Answers

1) I don't ever expect the figure to reach 10%.

2) I expect the percentage to level out at less than 2%.

Discussion

First, let's consider L-L.coms. Rare? Certainly. Three characters, 676 combos. Appropriate comparisons are LLL (same # of characters) and LL (same # of letters.) Market value of L-L is approximately 33% of LLL, 2% of LL.

Now consider L-L-L.coms. Rare? Somewhat. Five characters, 17576 combos. Appropriate comparisons are LLLLL (same # of characters) and LLL (same # of letters.) Is the market value of L-L-L 33% of LLLLL? No, that would be less than reg fee. The current L-L-L market is stronger, but in my opinion the upside is limited. Hyphens do not strengthen the appearance of a URL. Hyphenated names are awkward to verbally communicate. Value diminishes rapidly with the addition of each hyphen.

I expect LLL and LLLL to outperform L-L-L. Similarly expect NNN and NNNN to outperform N-N-N.

 

[Bill Roy]

000, I do not doubt for a second that LLL or NNN will generally outreach L-L-L or N-N-N in the market place, that was neither suggested or inferred in my post nor do I think in any other post on this thread.

It seems you are trying to equate from your post that L-L-L and N-N-N should be considered as 5 character domains. Let us for the moment consider them as such and see what market value they could possibly have. Now these are much rarer than five letter domains, actually 676 times rarer (26 x 26). Also they are generally much easier to remember than 5 letter domains (with the exception of 5 letter common English words). On both these points the L-L-L or indeed the N-N-N would have to be in general considered far superior to 5 letter or 5 number domains.

One good point in your post, although not as striking as it might at first appear, is that it is harder to 'verbally' communicate the hyphenated domain over the non-hyphenated domain. All things being equal this would seem a killer blow. However, as more and more advertising is going to the internet (a vastly predominant 'visual medium') by a growth rate of 30+% a year for the last 5 years (and it would seem this will continue) and away from traditional media advertising (a predominantly 'verbal medium' - radio and television) this would negate greatly the impact of such a dichotomy of values in the media presentation of the advertising medium. In simpler terms people now 'read' the information more on the net, and this is going to continue, against hearing it on radio or tv.

As an aside it is also more likely that a 'prospective customer' will immediately react to an advert on the internet that he has seen rather than an advert he has heard on the radio or tv.

It is time we domainers looked at the internet and domain names holistically and not as some strange aboration that will ignor the traits of society and how society operates.

 

[000]

000, I do not doubt for a second that LLL or NNN will generally outreach L-L-L or N-N-N in the market place, that was neither suggested or inferred in my post nor do I think in any other post on this thread.

Agreed. No one expects L-L-L/N-N-N to become more valuable than LLL/NNN. I expect LLL/NNN and LLLL/NNNN to outperform (appreciate faster than) L-L-L/N-N-N.

It seems you are trying to equate from your post that L-L-L and N-N-N should be considered as 5 character domains.

Not "trying" to equate them to 5 character domains. They are 5 character domains.

Let us for the moment consider them as such and see what market value they could possibly have. Now these are much rarer than five letter domains, actually 676 times rarer (26 x 26). Also they are generally much easier to remember than 5 letter domains (with the exception of 5 letter common English words). On both these points the L-L-L or indeed the N-N-N would have to be in general considered far superior to 5 letter or 5 number domains.

Agreed, but by the same token L-L is rarer and easier to remember than LLL, yet LLL commands a 3x price premium.

One good point in your post, although not as striking as it might at first appear, is that it is harder to 'verbally' communicate the hyphenated domain over the non-hyphenated domain. All things being equal this would seem a killer blow. However, as more and more advertising is going to the internet (a vastly predominant 'visual medium') by a growth rate of 30+% a year for the last 5 years (and it would seem this will continue) and away from traditional media advertising (a predominantly 'verbal medium' - radio and television) this would negate greatly the impact of such a dichotomy of values in the media presentation of the advertising medium. In simpler terms people now 'read' the information more on the net, and this is going to continue, against hearing it on radio or tv.

Internet ad growth is impressive but TV and radio will not disappear. As long as humans have ears, audio will remain important. Internet ads may feature more audio in the future. Hyphenated names generally look and sound weak.

As an aside it is also more likely that a 'prospective customer' will immediately react to an advert on the internet that he has seen rather than an advert he has heard on the radio or tv.

Agreed.

It is time we domainers looked at the internet and domain names holistically and not as some strange aboration that will ignor the traits of society and how society operates.

:hippie:

 

[Bill Roy]

000, two points concerning your last post.

Firstly, from the Hippy sign at the end of your post, would indicate a clear lack of understanding of, and here I am presuming, the word 'holistically',

Secondly, I should point out that the hyphen (-) is not a character at all in the English language but a punctuation mark, the same as a period (.) or a comma (,), therefore L-L-L are 3 letter domains whilst N-N-N are 3 number domains, and according to the rules of usage of the English language are still to be referred to as 3 character rather than 5 charater domains.

On this second point you may wish to ponder that the domain suffixes are refered to as follows:

1) .us, .de, .fr, etc. are referred to as 2 character suffixes

2) .com, .net, .biz, etc. are referred to as 3 character suffixes

3) .info, .mobi, .co.uk, etc. are referred to as 4 character suffixes

If this is the internationally accepted form of description then, though I bow to your superior intellect and wisdom over the rest of the world, I do not see how you can suddenly change how we describe domains. According to your point put forward in your last post there would be no '2 character suffixes' as in 1) above, these should now all be called '3 character suffixes'. Those in example 2) above should now be termed '4 character suffixes' instead of '3 character suffixes'. Finally in example 3) above .info and .mobi would according to your point now be classed as '5 character suffixes' and .co.uk as a '6 character suffix'.

Now let us think about this clearly, shall we continue to use the internationally agreed terminology or should we all suddenly change to using your logic and terminology?

 

[CyrusL]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/character

12. a symbol as used in a writing system, as a letter of the alphabet.
13. the symbols of a writing system collectively.
14. a significant visual mark or symbol.

I can't believe this is even a debated point.

 

[hugegrowth]

So is it a character or not?

You have to push five buttons to visit a L-L-L.com, so in that sense it's five characters. But visually it's all three characters.

B-E-N

BWEMN

The first comes to mind as BEN, the second as a jumble of five letters.


Don't see too many L-L.com sales, so it's hard to guage price vs. LLL.com

 

[CyrusL]

- is a character. It's a symbol in writing. Punctuation marks are all characters. Bilbo thinks characters are only alphanumeric which is wrong. All of this is just semantics and doesn't have any real impact on the discussion at hand, but I figured I would clarify.

 

[000]

000, two points concerning your last post.

Firstly, from the Hippy sign at the end of your post, would indicate a clear lack of understanding of, and here I am presuming, the word 'holistically',

Sorry, I apologize if I offended any hippies.

Secondly, I should point out that the hyphen (-) is not a character at all in the English language but a punctuation mark, the same as a period (.) or a comma (,), therefore L-L-L are 3 letter domains whilst N-N-N are 3 number domains, and according to the rules of usage of the English language are still to be referred to as 3 character rather than 5 charater domains.

On this second point you may wish to ponder that the domain suffixes are refered to as follows:

1) .us, .de, .fr, etc. are referred to as 2 character suffixes

2) .com, .net, .biz, etc. are referred to as 3 character suffixes

3) .info, .mobi, .co.uk, etc. are referred to as 4 character suffixes

If this is the internationally accepted form of description then, though I bow to your superior intellect and wisdom over the rest of the world, I do not see how you can suddenly change how we describe domains. According to your point put forward in your last post there would be no '2 character suffixes' as in 1) above, these should now all be called '3 character suffixes'. Those in example 2) above should now be termed '4 character suffixes' instead of '3 character suffixes'. Finally in example 3) above .info and .mobi would according to your point now be classed as '5 character suffixes' and .co.uk as a '6 character suffix'.

Now let us think about this clearly, shall we continue to use the internationally agreed terminology or should we all suddenly change to using your logic and terminology?

OK, I reevaluated L-L-L/N-N-N based on the internationally agreed terminology that a hyphen is a punctuation mark, but my model does not put much weight on the definition of a hyphen. I still see more upside in LLL/NNN and LLLL/NNNN investments.

 

[domainah]

So is it a character or not?

You have to push five buttons to visit a L-L-L.com, so in that sense it's five characters. But visually it's all three characters.

B-E-N

BWEMN

The first comes to mind as BEN, the second as a jumble of five letters.


Don't see too many L-L.com sales, so it's hard to guage price vs. LLL.com

It doesnt matter if its technically a five character domain, to everyone BUT domain professionals its three..and the fact that most acronyms are 3 characters creates value here...

The reason you dont see too many L-L.com sales is simply that are only 676 combos out there..and many of them are in use....that is exactly why L-L-L.coms are going to rise in value as well..., they cannot be compared with other random LLLLL.coms ...thats like saying email.com is just a 5 letter.com

 

[Jernet]

interestingly enough, google does not see a difference between the two. try doing a search for L-L-L and LLL or L-L-L.com and LLL.com. Same results.

 

[Biggie]

whether it's 5 character or 3 , it's still a crappy domain...imo!


might as well register all the L--L-L.com typos too