For Sale New Idea To Combat Auction Systems

[clemzonguy]

Here is an idea.....let me know what you think about it.

We need to create a site where we have the names we are interesting in obtaining and the prices we are willing to pay at auction. Many times we are actually bidding against others on this forum. The only reason we don't know about it is that the three big auction houses have the advantage by keeping things secretive as to who is bidding. Now it's time to turn the tables on them. I think that we should all collectively come together and if we are open and honest about what sites we want to acquire we can call come to reasonable levels of spending and get things much cheaper and everyone would be happy. I mean at some point a person is most likely willing to spend more than you so why be in the bidding in the first place if they are indeed likely to bid higher than you. I think that everyone knows who the regular bidders are if you follow anything in the drop game. I think namewinner was a great tool for evaluating price for a while but there needs to be a fake system where users once approved can enter the system and enter estimated bids on names they will be buying up to their max bid. This may cause much less emotional bidding later on. Users could contact one another and negotiate on whether or not they would pass on bidding and in fact give the name to someone else who may be more interested in the name and willing to pay more or negotiate future deals to not bid on certain names. The information would only be available for members of the club and once violations have occurred (they bid on a name they opted out on or whatever was in the rules) they will be not allowed back in. I know of many other people on this forum where it would benefit so there doesn't have to be a large membership to make this successful on at least a small scale.....the names of what is dropping is published now on many sites so that's not a big secret anymore. The only secret is who is actually bidding against you. Time to stop this!

Tell me what you guys think :-D

 

[Steen]

Don't think it would work because there are many bidders who would not join "the club".

 

[Whois-Search]

On ebay you have usernames like mine is "bennoart" and your allowed to email another bidder - maybe this would work ?

 

[clemzonguy]

Don't think it would work because there are many bidders who would not join "the club".

Doesn't matter. As long as ONE other person that I compete against regularly joins then it's a benefit to me and to them. It's worked for me in the past and it can work for many other people even the big dogs. People do these things at real auctions all the time (although there it's not allowed for obvious reasons). Here where internet auctions are unregulated business and non-transparent it's free game in my opinion.

On ebay you have usernames like mine is "bennoart" and your allowed to email another bidder - maybe this would work ?

Right you could probably do this on ebay and I haven't done it in the past. However, those people really have nothing to gain from one single auction. Plus I only use sniping on ebay I don't sit and bid. Waste of my time.

We are competing regularly against the same people daily. There are some new additions especially at pool but normally the serious players stay the same and most people will bid at least $100-$400 for a name without blinking but then cop out when it gets too high. Overall we could all save money by not bidding against one another and get a larger cut of the pie. This is especially true in new TLD auctions where it's the same group of people. Think about it.

 

[chatcher]

...I think that we should all collectively come together and if we are open and honest about what sites we want to acquire we can call come to reasonable levels of spending and get things much cheaper and everyone would be happy...

This would be a felony crime in the United States. Auction bid-rigging or collusion is covered by federal anti-trust law. Maybe one of the attorneys can give a better and more authoritative explanation.

 

[Anthony Ng]

I could understand very well how clemzonguy comes to have this idea: I have thought about this too, like if only I knew who the other guys are, perhaps they will cut me a break sometimes. Legal/ethical or not, however, I honestly don't think it will work out as it ideally should.

First off, auction is very much like poker games. You don't play with the billionaires if you are not one. So the only way there's even the slightest chance of success would be if you could join force with a group of bidders who are of similar financial capacity as you AND nobody else, esp. one with a deeper pocket is around. But we all know that would not happen. The bottom line is whether it is worth all those effort to coordinate.

Moreover, such a group would need mutual trust to survive. What if I want a certain domain VERY MUCH, but as much as the other in the group who says the same? Who gets the go? Once (yes, once is enough) a trick is being played, and the trust gone, all your effort will be flushed down the drain.

It may be better if you know who FEW big players are, esp. when you mentioned those .biz/.info auctions, and contact them privately to work on a case-by-case basis.

 

[ExpireGuy]

Don't think it would work because there are many bidders who would not join "the club".

Bang on.
The club scenario simply wouldn't hold ground, especially for names of the ambient.com or mobile.net caliber (the ones I use to go for with first come first serve services ala "Old Snapnames model" and GD).
You might get a few domainers in, but BuyDomains, Yun and other large players would IMHO hardly step aside for the little guy.
Business is business. Rarely does one get a free ride at anything anymore.
However this would be a most opportune time for another DropCatching service to arise, seeing that the majority SNAP, NW, Pool and Enom are collectively running on the same formats.
The Snapnames model of old (4 days old that is) would be welcomed with open arms if done profficiently (more registrars, better domain acquisition software) I for one would pay even more for a backorder if it meant not going to the bid auction trenches and seeing a domain rise well above what my credit card calls feasible.

 

[theparrot]

The Snapnames model of old (4 days old that is) would be welcomed with open arms if done profficiently (more registrars, better domain acquisition software) I for one would pay even more for a backorder if it meant not going to the bid auction trenches and seeing a domain rise well above what my credit card calls feasible.

The problem is the model does not generate enough money to buy the registrar connections.

 

[mole]

I don't think it will work, all you need is a snakehead silently swimming beneath a row of ducks then biting the backsides off.

I find it so much more productive to contact owners today for a name way before any drop happens.

 

[wolfis.com]

in theory (as it would be ilegal i guess) & if the trust is there , it would work ,that a small groud of people would say ...i got my eyes on 5 names , my favorite would be xbmnh.anywhere you can have all others - person # 2 picks one ect.
trust is all you need - but like i said i think it yould be ilegal...

 

[Digital Address]

This would be a felony crime in the United States. Auction bid-rigging or collusion is covered by federal anti-trust law. Maybe one of the attorneys can give a better and more authoritative explanation.

It's called a "bidding ring" and it's BIG TIME illegal!!

 

[theparrot]

I know a bid shill ring is illegal. I never saw/heard about a bidding ring being illegal though. Don't doubt that it may be, but can anyone provide a reference?

 

[ExpireGuy]

I find it so much more productive to contact owners today for a name way before any drop happens.

A valid option, but a double edged one as well.
Alerting a registrant could get you ahead of the line and a great deal on a domain, but could also give them (registrants) leverage to look over their once throw away stock and re-reg. In all probability putting the domains price up equal to or above what it would have gone for at final auction bid pricing. The more savy the domainer, the better the result to be sure.

 

[Anthony Ng]

A valid option, but a double edged one as well.

Yes, I always have some reservations about contacting the owner of an expiring domain. So unless it's a much sought after name, and you want to eithert ake your chance or ruin the party (of post-drop bidding), I would rather wait. Just my own take.

 

[clemzonguy]

http://www.agorics.com/Library/Auctions/auction11.html

Online auctions aren't the same as real auctions. I don't see how agreeing with somone NOT to attend an auction is illegal. If I rate a value on a domain that I am willing to pay say $500 and then I someone else I know personally has $100 up I will know if they are telling the truth because I have seen them win domains which are in the same market as I. The network could work like friendster where you could have to have a relationship with the other people in order to see their bids.

I have cooperated with persons in the past to not bid on certain auctions they were in as a courtesy because it did us both no good to bid against one another. I am sure others will see the value in this.

 

[QuantumBeam]

 

[chatcher]

...I have cooperated with persons in the past to not bid on certain auctions they were in as a courtesy because it did us both no good to bid against one another. I am sure others will see the value in this.

Oh, I see the value in it. I also see the value in the owners of two gas station owners agreeing not to undercut each other on prices. For that matter, I see the value in insider trading, insurance fraud, overloaded coal trucks, income tax evasion, bank robbery, etc., etc. But value is not the same as legality. (In fact, if not for the value there wouldn't be much need for a law. Bidding "courtesy" is illegal, even if it is difficult to enforce unless blatant.

In the case of dropped domain name auctions, though, I think there is zero chance of a bidding ring being successful unless run on the inside. I would be much more worried about shills driving up the prices than a bidding ring keeping them down.

 

[mole]

I would be much more worried about shills driving up the prices than a bidding ring keeping them down.

Chill shills - ghost bidders - price spooks - happy Friday 13th --- Freddy is very real in auction land. Be careful.