Paypal dispute and money return

[DNP]

Hi,

I'm buying the domain and do not want to deal with Escrow. If I paying $1500 via Paypal for the name to paypal personal account and seller fails to transfer the domain after the payment received, is that anyway to return this money back (paypal dispute and etc) and what can I do about it?

Thx.

 

[GT Web]

I'm pretty sure unless you use your credit card through Paypal and then do a chargeback, you wont be able to get your Paypal payment back because you are buying a virtual item. Use an Escrow service, the peace of mind alone is worth the fee.

 

[DNP]

Thx, mate. Found some info here:
http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?t=184985&highlight=paypal+dispute

 

[droplister]

a guy paid me $3000 via paypal, 1500 + 50 then i transferred then the 1500 after.

 

[whydna]

Use Escrow for any purchases over $1,000

 

[David G]

Be very cautious dealing with PayPal if you are a seller. I once was a supporter of theirs but I now realize that was a big error as I see why PayPal sucks big time. They are most always totally on the buyers side if credit card is used and regarding all intangibles and any electronic services, regardless of your evidence.

Plus, communications with them is next to impossible except for canned automated replies. Their chargeback appeal form is basically worthless as it only gives 2 options, either 1. supply proof of physical delivery such as UPS or FedEx receipts, or 2. a full refund will be issued. There are no other options so you will always be a loser on services sold, including domains. You do not even have the option of a partial refund, it has to be 100%.

We were thinking about moving to the new Google Checkout but the problem is their policies are the same.

 

[Raider]

If the seller transferred the domain after you paid him, he's the one taking all the risk, not you, since Paypal does NOT cover non tangible or virtual items.

If you are the Buyer/Payer and never received the domain, your almost guaranteed to get your money back through either Paypal or your credit card co.

I know Escrow.com can take a little longer, but they guaranty the transaction for both parties.

a guy paid me $3000 via paypal, 1500 + 50 then i transferred then the 1500 after.

You were fortunate to sell your domain to an honest buyer, but you still took a $3000 risk.

 

[Malaysia]

yeah i wud choose escrow over paypal if i were u..

 

[Focus]

I totally disagree, I personally have dealt with this issue and found paypal helpful and aware of this market and the potential issues surrounding domain sales, there actually is new policy in place to protect the buyer and seller, however, you must make CERTAIN that you only take payments from VERIFIED paypal accounts and maintain proof of the domain transfer as well as take a screenshot of the updated whois info, I do this for ALL of my $x,xxx+ name sales when payment is made thru paypal. Most registrars will send you confirmation of a domain push and what user or destination account the name was sent to, this only works for evidence in your favor IF you make sure the buyer puts this SAME INFO in the payment notes and also MAKE SURE the domain name is in the title of the payment, otherwise refund the payment and ask them to resend with the required info to protect yourself from fradulent buyers. Digital delivery of an intangible domain is satisfied by proof of name transfer to the same party making the payment. The easiest way around all of the above issues is to send your buyers an invoice through paypal with all of the information and how "digital delivery" will be satisifed, also you can choose the payment type to be a "quasi cash" payment type and not "goods" or "auction items" and that way the payment is like them sending you a bank wire of cash and not a payment for a physical item, when someone sends "quasi cash" it does'nt prompt you to "ship" the item either as it does with other payment types..most people select "goods or service" as the payment type when buying domains from each other, and this leaves the door open to possible problems. In reality, someone sending you "quasi cash" is like a Mom sending her kid money at college with paypal or something of that type..so it's just a little extra CYA, or "Cover Your A$$".

 

[David G]

Good information Mocus but the buyer can still scam you. We even had a PAID and cleared eCheck reversed on us for a service we provided 3 weeks after it had already cleared the Verified paypal buyers bank, and after PayPal sent email to us saying the eCheck had cleared and was now OK to fulfill the order.

It was real simple for the dishonest buyer to defraud us by simply telling PayPal they never ordered it. The crook made-up stories like one of the kids must have done it playing around with the computer. She also later said maybe her husband did it without her consent, or even a neighbor!

The dishonest buyer made up all those lies after first sending us an email and calling us where she asked for a refund as she simply changed her mind about fully using the service after it was already delivered. She lost the first chargeback on the truthful grounds she just wanted to cancel the order after delivery, which win we were happy about but it was short-lived. However, she won the later appeal on made-up grounds of it not being authorized.

I am guessing she heard she could get a refund by later claiming it was not authorized either from a PayPal employee or possibly reading it somewhere that she could by saying the order was not authorized. PayPal refused to take into consideration the first charge back we had won.

There was nothing we could do to fight it. We filed several appeals and had extensive evidence it was all lies what with a very good paper trail and even a copy of an email from the scammer sent before she charged it back regarding her purchase where she never denied the purchase. We also had concrete written evidence she had earlier submitted to PayPal during the first dispute we had won but that proved worthless.

A big problem is when you file an appeal the automated appeals form only permits you to 1. Shipping details and signature for over $250, or 2, You will give a full refund. No other option is available, not even a partial refund.

PayPal seemingly even allows the scammer to keep and use the service and does not mandate it be not used. Like I said before, paypal sucks big time: http://paypalsucks.com I imagine a scammer could also successfully keep a domain name if they wanted to do so (according to what I read only a physical product needs to be returned).

 

[mjnels]

Hi,

I'm buying the domain and do not want to deal with Escrow. If I paying $1500 via Paypal for the name to paypal personal account and seller fails to transfer the domain after the payment received, is that anyway to return this money back (paypal dispute and etc) and what can I do about it?

Thx.

There is NO way to get your paypal funds back from paypal for the purchase of a domain name.


You probably CAN get it back from a credit card company, if thats what you use to fund payment.

BUT - Paypal has the right to ban you if you do a CC chargeback -- read their TOS.

 

[David G]

There is NO way to get your paypal funds back from paypal for the purchase of a domain name.


You probably CAN get it back from a credit card company, if thats what you use to fund payment.

BUT - Paypal has the right to ban you if you do a CC chargeback -- read their TOS.

The seller has much more risk than the buyer, really no comparison.

And yes, the buyer can easily get a refund by saying the buy was unauthorized, even if using an eCheck or cash in your acct.

Other ways too such as seller not replying within a fast 10 days and only from his recognized and verified email address. No other email address is permitted in the reply-from header area of the email. In addition, PayPal automatically deletes all numerals from your emails upon receipt by them so there is no other way to match it up to the dispute except the email header. To make matters even tougher the email can only be sent to an exact and very difficult to obtain obscure paypal email address. No other address may be used. It is good to use emails as the standard online seller response form is basically worthless for reasons mentioned before.

P.S. I doubt if paypal bans typical buyer scammers unless they do it very often and there are numerous complaints filed from various sellers. It it even quite difficult to find the needed form to complain about a buyer as that seems to be buried deep within the site. Took me several days to even find the fraud reports form. When I submittred the report they never bothered to reply.

 

[mjnels]

The seller has much more risk than the buyer, really no comparison.

absolutely true.


i still say paypal + domains = scary stuff

paypal is scary by itself... there are just too many tricks a buyer/seller can use to defraud someone.

ive been sent back empty boxes, boxes with half of the parts missing, stuff people did the ol' switch-a-roo on.. and they always get their money back.

paypal doesnt really care or give too much consideration when crappy circumstances arise.. although they seem to side more with the buyer these days IMO.