Question about a negative based site.

[draggar]

Draggar the site member here, I'm taking off the mod badge for this thread considering a lot of this is being written out of emotion (I'm still heated over what's been going on).

My wife is now ex-friends with someone in her dog club (well, I think now she's been kicked out of the club). To give a rundown on what she's done:

• She fostered a dog for collie rescue (note: this is rescue - organizations aimed to help reduce poorly bred dogs and find unwanted dogs new homes). She bred it to her Australian shepherd so she could sell the puppies.
• A few years ago she agreed to do some CGC (Canine Good Citizen) certifications for $80 per person (hugely inflated price, BTW). Roughly 20-25 people paid for it. After the trial no one got any certifications from AKC and AKC said they never got any paperwork submitted for them.
• During a schutzhund seminar she left her dogs, unattended in a car, and during the seminar one got out and went after the demonstration dog (this had the potential to be disastrous).
• She "bought' a dog from a friend of ours the agreed price was $1500 (a steal for this dog). She could only afford a $300 deposit and our friend agreed to it. She then decided that since she couldn't physically put a SchH1 on the dog, she shipped it up to North Carolina to be trained (nothing out of the ordinary). When the training was done, the told the trainer that she couldn't afford the $750 training fee and wasn't going to pay it. When the owner found out about this, he asked her and she said that "it was costing her too much" and refused to pay the trainer or for the outstanding balance of the dog. Our friend is now out of $1950 because he needs to pay the trainer to get his dog back.
• She now owns the sire of the litter of Finnish spitz puppies we had (at the time of the breeding, the sire was co-owned by the breeder we work with and this lady). Since she now owns the sire she is demanding the pick of the litter, for free (which was NEVER part of any agreement). Considering the condition of our Finnish spitz after it was with her for a week screams to us that she is a horrible owner). She is refusing to sign the needed paperwork to verify / register this litter so now we either have to take her to court or sell all of the puppies at "pet quality" as opposed to "show quality" (a difference of about $500 per puppy or $2500 total).
• She got invited to the Eukanuba show (one of the country's top shows) and sent at least 50 people an email insisting that we should donate to her so she can go (plus her expected costs are 4X what my wife paid for the same trip a few years ago).

Plus, she is always lying to people (claiming she spends 75% of her time in a wheelchair - it's hard to do this when you don't own one!). the list goes on and on.

The sad part is that there is nothing documented (available to the public) over what she's done. For some reason, there's only praise out there about her.

So, my question is, her realname.com (first and last) is available to register. How much trouble could I get in if I registered it and then filled it up with the facts that have happened, what she's done to many clubs in the area (including rescue), what she's done to other people, etc.?

I know this is a very touchy subject which is why I'm posting it in the exclusive area, I don't need Google seeing this nor would I want other members here seeing this. I'm sure many people would understand.

Luckily, my wife has many friends in this venue who know it inside and out and are acting as great advisors to her. Hopefully our puppy situation will get sorted out but the way it is looking it will not.

 

[Onward]

Wow, I have a similar situation...except with my brother's ex business partner (which he is in a legal dispute with).

I have not decided what I am going to do, but I own the names with out content right now.

 

[draggar]

I haven't registered the name yet, this person hyphenated her name (ex-husband) so I'd have to register three.

My wife is working on better, though. According to AKC rules, she has to either sign the papers or she gets suspended. It would be a shame to see her suspended just before the championship show. *evil grin*

The more we learn about the other options out there, the less I want to do the site. I just can't imagine people use animals like a pawn this much.

 

[Onward]

Yes, I know what you mean...My thoughts were just to let people know this person's business practices and character, by linking and posting actual public records...so it would all be fact - not opinion.

 

[jdk]

The sad part is that there is nothing documented (available to the public) over what she's done. For some reason, there's only praise out there about her.

You'd want to talk to a lawyer, of course, but technically she could say none of this is true correct? You are basically taking her "good name in the public's eye" and trying to ruin it thru statements on a website.

I am sure if you went ahead with it she'd sue you for libel not to mention civial charges against you for damages, and lets not forget the "pain and suffering" the lawyers love to sue for. I'd highly highly recommend speaking to a lawyer if this is something you are considering doing.

 

[Tia Wood]

So, my question is, her realname.com (first and last) is available to register. How much trouble could I get in if I registered it and then filled it up with the facts that have happened, what she's done to many clubs in the area (including rescue), what she's done to other people, etc.?

Zero. ONLY if you stick to provable facts. You can do this because it's called consumer warning.

If you, however, trail off from fact you can be sued for slander, damages, etc.

Keep the feelings off the site and stick to the facts as if you were a reporter.

Finally, ask a lawyer because I'm not one. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Gerry]

Sorry, this is so hilarious because it is pathetic! I think you know what I mean. I can not get over this woman.

First, who is getting kicked out, your wife or the no name woman?

It is all so bizarre. My wife and I are also very heavily involved with rescue, adoption, CGC, and Therapy Dogs.


[*]She fostered a dog for collie rescue (note: this is rescue - organizations aimed to help reduce poorly bred dogs and find unwanted dogs new homes). She bred it to her Australian shepherd so she could sell the puppies.

Other than being pretty low class (the woman) what did she sell the pups as? Found? Registered? "send you the papers later" type of scam. Was a crime committed? If she claimed they had papers but you have no idea what she actually told the potential buyer. It is all extremely unethical.


[*]A few years ago she agreed to do some CGC (Canine Good Citizen) certifications for $80 per person (hugely inflated price, BTW). Roughly 20-25 people paid for it. After the trial no one got any certifications from AKC and AKC said they never got any paperwork submitted for them.

This could be potentially a huge mess let alone fraud. Plus, if she represented the kennel club or dog club doing while doing this, that alone would seem to be enough to give her the boot. Not to mention all of this could come back to bite the club in the ***. Plus, the AKC could possibly pull the sanction rights from the training facility or something along those lines that would prevent future instructor wannabees from not getting certified.


[*]During a schutzhund seminar she left her dogs, unattended in a car, and during the seminar one got out and went after the demonstration dog (this had the potential to be disastrous).

Again, no class. And no brains. What breed was this? Just curious. I had German Shepherds ranked about 20 years ago.


[*]She "bought' a dog from a friend of ours the agreed price was $1500 (a steal for this dog). She could only afford a $300 deposit and our friend agreed to it. She then decided that since she couldn't physically put a SchH1 on the dog, she shipped it up to North Carolina to be trained (nothing out of the ordinary). When the training was done, the told the trainer that she couldn't afford the $750 training fee and wasn't going to pay it. When the owner found out about this, he asked her and she said that "it was costing her too much" and refused to pay the trainer or for the outstanding balance of the dog. Our friend is now out of $1950 because he needs to pay the trainer to get his dog back.

All grounds for legal action. Again, what breed? and do you know where in NC? I do not want to get involved. But I could possibly check on the dog if it is not terribly far or if I am in that area. (Please don't tell me Silver Lake or Siler City).

A concern of mine would be the rights of that trainer to claim the animal or turn around and sell it.

But, if the other idiot, I mean woman, had a contract with the training facility for that dog to hold it ransom would not be proper. Then again, the whole issue is clouded as now the original owner and seller has no legal rights to the now trained dog.


[*]She now owns the sire of the litter of Finnish spitz puppies we had (at the time of the breeding, the sire was co-owned by the breeder we work with and this lady). Since she now owns the sire she is demanding the pick of the litter, for free (which was NEVER part of any agreement). Considering the condition of our Finnish spitz after it was with her for a week screams to us that she is a horrible owner). She is refusing to sign the needed paperwork to verify / register this litter so now we either have to take her to court or sell all of the puppies at "pet quality" as opposed to "show quality" (a difference of about $500 per puppy or $2500 total).

As deeply involved as you are and obviously money involved in your cost, it may be worthwhile to consider the legal route. But, she could always claim denial. Or, bite the bullet and give her the pick of the litter and get the papers signed if that is the sticking point.


[*]She got invited to the Eukanuba show (one of the country's top shows) and sent at least 50 people an email insisting that we should donate to her so she can go (plus her expected costs are 4X what my wife paid for the same trip a few years ago).

Screw the show and screw donating. That is her problem to deal with.

So, my question is, her realname.com (first and last) is available to register. How much trouble could I get in if I registered it and then filled it up with the facts that have happened, what she's done to many clubs in the area (including rescue), what she's done to other people, etc.?

I would totally steer clear from this temptation. It sounds like there is absolutely nothing beneath her or too low to do. And, I have all the confidence in the world that others will spread that word around for you.

The 20-25 people in your area that are not getting certificates, the place here in NC. Trust me, the dog world and shows and breeders and training facilities is tight and communicate. I have no doubt her name is getting trashed from one to another to another.

Just trust that she will get what she deserves which is her name equated to trash.

 

[tekz999]

My advise for you is to bltch slap her, for she deserves it, and simply ask your friend to report fraud and scam. She will then probably figure out by herself what needs to be corrected. You don't need to run a site like this, the point is she won't learn anyway. Or you can act like a mirror, and treat her the way she treats other people. Lie to her. Then explains that is how it feels like. So learn it and stfu. It is also your responsibility to scold her. She will then remember the lesson.

 

[fab]

So, my question is, her realname.com (first and last) is available to register.

I totally disagree with this approach. Sounds like revenge. There are better, legal ways of dealing with situations like this. Good luck!

 

[draggar]

You'd want to talk to a lawyer, of course, but technically she could say none of this is true correct? You are basically taking her "good name in the public's eye" and trying to ruin it thru statements on a website.

There are many witnesses to the agreements so those are not in question. My wife is filing a large complaint against her with the AKC and so are several other people.

Sorry, this is so hilarious because it is pathetic! I think you know what I mean. I can not get over this woman.

First, who is getting kicked out, your wife or the no name woman?

The no-name woman could be suspended if we file the complaint w/ AKC. That would be hilarious and a seriously legal course of action (plus Karma biting her in the rear). She spends the non-refundable entry fee then gets suspended. HA! :lol:

Other than being pretty low class (the woman) what did she sell the pups as? Found? Registered? "send you the papers later" type of scam. Was a crime committed? If she claimed they had papers but you have no idea what she actually told the potential buyer. It is all extremely unethical.

I'm not sure how she sold them (other than as collie-aussie mixes).

This could be potentially a huge mess let alone fraud. Plus, if she represented the kennel club or dog club doing while doing this, that alone would seem to be enough to give her the boot. Not to mention all of this could come back to bite the club in the ***. Plus, the AKC could possibly pull the sanction rights from the training facility or something along those lines that would prevent future instructor wannabees from not getting certified.

Many of the club's members sent in letters. According to AKC's policies, she should have had her CGC evaluator certification revoked, but it never was.

Again, no class. And no brains. What breed was this? Just curious. I had German Shepherds ranked about 20 years ago.

It was her basic-obedience (barely) trained rottie and on the field was a SchH3 malinois. I'm sure you know who would have won, luckily a big factor of schutzhund is control and stability.

All grounds for legal action. Again, what breed? and do you know where in NC? I do not want to get involved. But I could possibly check on the dog if it is not terribly far or if I am in that area. (Please don't tell me Silver Lake or Siler City).

A concern of mine would be the rights of that trainer to claim the animal or turn around and sell it.

But, if the other idiot, I mean woman, had a contract with the training facility for that dog to hold it ransom would not be proper. Then again, the whole issue is clouded as now the original owner and seller has no legal rights to the now trained dog.

The breeder / owner of the GSD has been in contact with the trainer. He does not intend to screw the trainer and will pay the trainer the price but has decided that since the training is pretty much done and the fee does include a BH and SchH1 title, then he'll wait until after the trial to get the dog back. The breeder / owner is on good terms with the trainer.

I think in light of recent events, the breeder/owner of the GSD (who is a very good friend of ours) is going to sue her for what he had to pay for transport and training fee in court.

As deeply involved as you are and obviously money involved in your cost, it may be worthwhile to consider the legal route. But, she could always claim denial. Or, bite the bullet and give her the pick of the litter and get the papers signed if that is the sticking point.

This is the part that might get her suspended. My wife looked up the AKC rules and the owner of a stud dog MUST sign the paperwork (unless it was agreed upon before the breeding and in writing) or else the stud owner could get suspended. My wife has 3 whitnesses to the agreements to the dog, including our Finnish spitz breeder having full breeding rights to the male (this male went from the breeder to this "lady" (and I use the term loosely)). We're trying to see if there is a way we can get him back from her but this (I'll censor myself) would most likely put him to sleep than give him back, even if she was sued to get the dog back.

Screw the show and screw donating. That is her problem to deal with.

I said close to the same thing but exchange "screw" with a four letter word that rhymes with truck. :smilewinkgrin: She's gotten plenty of hate male from that, she even sent it to people not involved with any of the dog clubs (member's family members etc..).

I would totally steer clear from this temptation. It sounds like there is absolutely nothing beneath her or too low to do. And, I have all the confidence in the world that others will spread that word around for you.

Yeah, I didn't register her name, in fact, she still uses her ex-husband's name and hyphenates so right there is three names that I'd have to register.

The 20-25 people in your area that are not getting certificates, the place here in NC. Trust me, the dog world and shows and breeders and training facilities is tight and communicate. I have no doubt her name is getting trashed from one to another to another.

Just trust that she will get what she deserves which is her name equated to trash.

Right now if you look her up online she seems to have a very good reputation but she's already started communications. Someone is selling a wonderful spitz puppy (female) and we know she would jump on it since the breeder (seller) doesn't know her (he could be next in her screw line). My wife had our Finnish spitz breeder call him to warn him (in fact, we might take that puppy).

My advise for you is to bltch slap her, for she deserves it, and simply ask your friend to report fraud and scam. She will then probably figure out by herself what needs to be corrected. You don't need to run a site like this, the point is she won't learn anyway. Or you can act like a mirror, and treat her the way she treats other people. Lie to her. Then explains that is how it feels like. So learn it and stfu. It is also your responsibility to scold her. She will then remember the lesson.

(B-word that rhymes with switch) slap? I'd love to do that and too bad it's not legal - so many people deserve one today. :smilewinkgrin:

We're not going to stoop down to her level, that is for sure. Many poor dogs are getting screwed because of her unethical behavior. Right now my wife is setting the wheels in motion to really hit her hard (all though legal means, too). She's been on the phone wiht some good friends of hers (who are very well educated with the legalities of AKC etc..) the past few days getting great advice. She is going to call AKC today, too.

Luckily my wife has a good reputation *and* can back it up (long time supporter of malinois rescue, even being a coordinator at one time, titles, good show dogs, high ethical standards, training, championships, etc..).

I totally disagree with this approach. Sounds like revenge. There are better, legal ways of dealing with situations like this. Good luck!

Yeah, I'm not going to do that now especially since we know our options, which are very good for us. I'm a lot calmer now (and still very tired since it's 6am) so my mind is a bit clearer now.

 

[Gerry]

It is an an absolute mess and I think you may be approaching it rationally now. Good to air this stuff out.

I would do what I can to end the relationship, get her kicked out of the club, and distance yourselves from her.

It appears like you will potentially be dragged into a lawsuit or two as a witness as it stands.

I would again contact the AKC. Politely put to them that it is THEIR (the AKC) reputation is on the line because she was acting on their behalf.

With no record of payment on file may be a sticking point. But getting as many folks as possible that actually paid her to make a statement may be enough. I know many classes depend on having that CGC paper before acceptance like TDI training. That is one of their foundations of dogs certifiable for therapy work.

 

[draggar]

It is an an absolute mess and I think you may be approaching it rationally now. Good to air this stuff out.

I would do what I can to end the relationship, get her kicked out of the club, and distance yourselves from her.

My wife is done with her and doesn't expect to see her with their training club (the one my wife runs). The collie club doesn't want anything to do with her.

It appears like you will potentially be dragged into a lawsuit or two as a witness as it stands.

We're really not a witness to anything other than what's going on with our litter. The rest of it is from the people who were screwed by it.

I would again contact the AKC. Politely put to them that it is THEIR (the AKC) reputation is on the line because she was acting on their behalf.

With no record of payment on file may be a sticking point. But getting as many folks as possible that actually paid her to make a statement may be enough. I know many classes depend on having that CGC paper before acceptance like TDI training. That is one of their foundations of dogs certifiable for therapy work.

Hopefully people paid by check so there would be a record of it. My wife has been doing CGCs for this club for the past couple of years and she takes in no money. It either goes to the certification or a donation to the club (the Miami collie club also runes the local collie rescue).

 

[Onward]

I totally disagree with this approach. Sounds like revenge. There are better, legal ways of dealing with situations like this. Good luck!

There is a difference between educating the public through public information and facts - and revenge...So I do agree with you that 'for revenge' purposes this approach is counter productive...

 

[jasdon11]

This is what happens when you deal with bichtes!

Get it?? Bichtes...:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:





Intentionally mis-spelt otherwise I just got *****es

 

[draggar]

Just a heads up on the situation - my wife got into contact with an attorney who specializes in show dogs etc. and he sent the owner of the sire a letter.

Last night we got confirmation that the litter was confirmed (she "signed" the paperwork so the litter is now officially AKC registered!).

 

[Gerry]

Absolute shame to have to resort to the legal route to get someone to do what's right.

And an un-needed expense.

 

[dominator]

the best way would be to take the first name, last name and an additional word
like JaneDoeTruth or JaneDoeFacts

 

[draggar]

• She "bought' a dog from a friend of ours the agreed price was $1500 (a steal for this dog). She could only afford a $300 deposit and our friend agreed to it. She then decided that since she couldn't physically put a SchH1 on the dog, she shipped it up to North Carolina to be trained (nothing out of the ordinary). When the training was done, the told the trainer that she couldn't afford the $750 training fee and wasn't going to pay it. When the owner found out about this, he asked her and she said that "it was costing her too much" and refused to pay the trainer or for the outstanding balance of the dog. Our friend is now out of $1950 because he needs to pay the trainer to get his dog back.

Just a heads up - he got the dog back, titled and found a home for him. But, this home is now going though a biter divorce and the wife (who owns the dog) is moving to North Carolina.

So guess what? We're taking in the dog (if he's anything like his father, he's a real sweetheart).

 

[GUA]

I didnt see this thread when it happened, and having read it now I dont really know what happened.. It doesnt seem to make much sense.