Reneging on a sale

[Beachie]

I recently made an offer on a domain, the owner (not a forum member) accepted the offer, both by phone and email. The seller didn't want payment by wire, paypal or escrow, so I (trustingly) agree to send a check, which caused a fair amount of work for a few people. Seller receives the check, and today he tells me he is no longer selling the domain and has returned the check.

This has had several affects:
1) The check was made out by a friend in the U.S. (as I'm based in Australia), and there were around $200 of fees involved in wiring the money around.
2) I paid my friend $1000 to help with the check.
3) I will have to pay additional fees for the wire back to me.
4) The opportunity cost of not having $xx,xxx in my account for the last 3 weeks.

I'm tired of people reneging on deals and I want to make an example of this guy. I'm willing to blow the whole amount of the deal (mid five figures) just to drag this guy through the legal system and make this the worst decision he ever made. I've turned the other cheek in the past, but this is the straw that broke the camel's back. I'm going to make it public so that when someone renegs on a deal with you, you can show them the consequences.

What I need is a recommendation of a law firm that could handle this professionally. The seller is based in Tennessee.

 

[Beachie]

I don't think you can recover any losses unless you have a contract, like in real estate.

Not worried about recouping any money.

 

[katherine]

Is there a written sale contract ?

 

[Gerry]

That's why I suggested an Name and Shame section.

Members or not, buyers or sellers who stiff the members should be posted to warn others. Kind of like the local convenience store putting up all the bad check writers for all to see.

I recently had someone reneg on a $4200 sale through Sedo. 2 months later, no payment. I have no issues posting this bogus bidder.

 

[Beachie]

Is there a written sale contract ?

No contract per se, but I have emails stating the sale price and terms, as well as one stating that they've received the check and will transfer the name once the check clears.

 

[melmunch]

My dad always says, "do you want to be right or do you want to be rich?"

It does sting to lose a deal like that and not have any recourse. However, xx,xxx can buy you peace of mind in many ways. No matter how much money you have, embarrassing the seller will not give you any lasting satisfaction and I doubt that it will "change the industry"

Why not take a day or two to think of what pleasurable experiences/products you could buy with the money you are committed to spend, and weigh it against the benefit of feeling good about not letting him get away with it.

 

[Beachie]

My dad always says, "do you want to be right or do you want to be rich?"

It does sting to lose a deal like that and not have any recourse. However, xx,xxx can buy you peace of mind in many ways. No matter how much money you have, embarrassing the seller will not give you any lasting satisfaction and I doubt that it will "change the industry"

Why not take a day or two to think of what pleasurable experiences/products you could buy with the money you are committed to spend, and weigh it against the benefit of feeling good about not letting him get away with it.

Problem is, the more people who get away with it, the more people get away with it. I'm not trying to embarrass the seller or profit (or break even for that matter) - just make an example of him.

 

[katherine]

I would first ask J Berryhill or Brett Lewis for advice.
I'm not sure if the exchange of E-mail is enforceable.

 

[petrosc]

Beachie, if you have indeed come to an agreement through email, and that email clearly shows that he agreed to sell that specific name for the price you quoted then he is legally binded and you can make him go through with the deal.

I had a funny thing happen to me once, there is a buried thread about it somewhere too in DNF and NP. What happened is that I was being sarcastic and told someone(by email) that I would sell him a very nice adult name for $1 and that we would split the escrow. He then threatened with legal action if I didn't go through with the deal. I was shocked to hear that there was an obligation to keep my word so I turned to the boards for advice. I was shocked to hear from people, among them legal experts, that under certain circumstances such deals are valid and emails can be held as evidence. Of course, in my case it was ridiculous to lose my domain and the guy eventually after a few weeks stopped bugging me, but in your case a lot of money is/was at stake and you can certainly do something about it.

 

[jazzpetals]

That was horrid of the seller to do that Beachie, i admire your fortitude and yes, I would certainly take legal steps to secure the name, you had allotted the funds to purchase the name anyway, and I believe the emails act as digital signatures. I would pursue it legally.

 

[Focus]

If you pursue this and you complied fully with the terms and agreements in the deal (i.e. you performed) then you should be able to go after him in a civil suit for breach of contract and non performance of the agreement, as well as recover your legal fee's and costs incurred relative to this transaction, in addition to making him responsible for his actions. I do not know that they (the court) would forcibly cause him to complete the deal and there are some issues relating to your residency and rights as an australian and not an american citizen so the proceedings would have some influence based on International law regading this and contracts but I can assure you when everything is said and done, he will wish he kept his word..and if you really want to make an example out of him then I say go for it dude because nobody ever seems to stick to their deals anymore and many times there is ALOT of money at stake and if people are unsure about the value of their domains or doing a deal they should not agree to it and put others through the hassle involved, not to mention the emotional distress - which is very real also. Good luck Chris.

 

[Busynic]

I like melmunch's post a lot - it says it all.

Write off the experience as part of doing business in the industry you are in. It's the cost of occassionally getting to yes and a great buy....... dredging through the crap that is dealt up to find a diamond.

If 1/5 people reneg, then the other 80% of good deals have to compensate for the cost of dealing with the one scumbag.

For some sense of satisfaction, in a commercial world you do have an agreement that is most likely enforceable (at a cost), although the probability of success will depend on all the facts surrounding your case (caveat: I am NOT a lawyer and this is NOT a legal opinion).

If you are going to pursue the cause, then the following are some ideas to consider:
You are seeking a lawyer - good move - get the best one you can afford;
Prepare all your facts in sequential order and leave nothing out (it will save you time and money, by not having them ask 1000 questions and writing it out themselves);
Listen to what they tell you and make sure you are paying them well for the advice;
Do what every business does and send the defaulting party a letter of demand on the "A list" Laywer's letter head; and
Wait (make sure you give them at least 2 options. eg hand the name over upon payment, reimburse you for your direct costs $X,000). If there is no choice involved for them, they will more than likely get their heckles up and fight it.

If the above does not make sense - re-read post by melmunch "do you want to be right, or do you want to be rich"

You can only make an example of scumbags by continuing to do the right thing so matter how hard that burden is sometimes. Responsibility will always rest on the shoulders of those who "know."

Good luck in your pursuit - park the Aussie sense of justice and spirit in you for a few days, and look at it through the US system that you are contemplating............. If that doesn't work, grab a slab and head to the beach....... the hangover will represent a small fraction of the pain you are about to inflict on yourself more than anyone else.........

just 2 cents worth of thoughts - nothing more, nothing less. My emotional reactions are very similar to Beachie's and I could keep a swag of lawyers busy everyday - but the best advice I get continually - do you want to do what you are good at, or do you want to be in court..................

 

[fatter]

From my business law days when I actually paid attention in school, a contract is assumed when there is a meeting of the minds it can be oral or written, the burden of proof is on complaitant to prove in court, with emails if authenticated I would think you have a case its up to you wether it is worth the hassle or not.

 

[DNQuest.com]

There are three parts to a contract:

1 - Offer (I will sell you a domain)
2 - Concideration (I will pay for it)
3 - Acceptance (I will sell the domain for XXX - I will buy the domain for XXX)

If you are able to prove all 3 exsisted, it is an enforceable contract. Seems you have all 3. The steps to enforce it and what you can get out of it, that could be difficult.

 

[melmunch]

Just to be clear, I am all for pursuing this in a legal fashion, and trying to enforce your implied contract. I just think that it should be a business decision, based on risk/gain.

I'm willing to blow the whole amount of the deal (mid five figures) just to drag this guy through the legal system and make this the worst decision he ever made.

You can make an example of him for $100 by throwing up a website and putting it in your signature.

 

[NameGuy]

There was a thread to sell emergency.org, seemingly from what the seller posted, for the highest offer - which turned out to be me. At least I took it that way. When the time came to close the deal, they said they got a higher offer offline and so I didn't get the name. Sometimes, I guess things just happen.

 

[Dave Zan]

I had a funny thing happen to me once, there is a buried thread about it somewhere too in DNF and NP. What happened is that I was being sarcastic and told someone(by email) that I would sell him a very nice adult name for $1 and that we would split the escrow. He then threatened with legal action if I didn't go through with the deal. I was shocked to hear that there was an obligation to keep my word so I turned to the boards for advice. I was shocked to hear from people, among them legal experts, that under certain circumstances such deals are valid and emails can be held as evidence. Of course, in my case it was ridiculous to lose my domain and the guy eventually after a few weeks stopped bugging me, but in your case a lot of money is/was at stake and you can certainly do something about it.

I remember that thread. You got off lucky.

 

[Beachie]

There was a thread to sell emergency.org, seemingly from what the seller posted, for the highest offer - which turned out to be me. At least I took it that way. When the time came to close the deal, they said they got a higher offer offline and so I didn't get the name. Sometimes, I guess things just happen.

Yours wasn't the highest offer. You didn't get emergency.org because someone made a considerably higher offer than yours outside of the thread and I accepted it. The thread stated clearly to email offers. I never told you I was going to sell the name to you - big difference. Having sour grapes because you didn't bid high enough isn't my problem, it's yours.

The difference here is I made an offer, the guy agreed to do the deal at that price, I sent the money and then he backed out.

 

[petrosc]

I remember that thread. You got off lucky.

and learned from my mistakes

 

[-ET-]

Offer accepted is a contract and legally binding and enforceable.offer and acceptance through mail also leads to a contract if you have negotiated the deal with the domain owners email.