Should age become an issue when buying/selling domains....

[izopod]

Just occured to me, I think it would be helpful if we knew the ages of our fellow members here. Could be interesting if you were buying a name from a minor and he/she didn't follow through on a agreed upon sale. How can you go after a minor??? Appears we have a few running around...

Things that make you go hmmmm???

 

[Customb]

I don't think age is an issue. I think everyone should be categorized as Minor or Adult.

 

[Jack Gordon]

I disagree with you both. We should all be judged on the content of our character and nothing else. If a minor does not follow through on a transaction, that person should be ostracized based on their inability to be a good member here. Age has nothing to do with it.

 

[Nexus]

Age is an issue if one is to determine who is a minor and who is an adult... Not sure how else you'd do that? Also, its not only important for people that don't complete on sales, but theoretically, after a sale has been made, its not necessarily a "done" deal if it was such that someone (presumeably a parent) felt the seller (the minor) was taken advantage of. Sounds like misery in the making. On the level of a "hobby community" it is a stray thought... on the level of a "business community", it is a pressing issue.

http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=28079

Aside from asking "how old", Izopod... is there some direction this line of discussion could otherwise take? I've linked the "age check" thread above. What's the next consideration?

I think this is clearly "the elephant in the room". It'd be a bold move to throw some meaty ideas out on tackling the issue head-on. It'd certainly do the community a favor.

~ Nexus

 

[Edwin]

Minors cannot enter into legally binding contracts, whereas adults can so it's definitely a very valid issue. If an adult reneges on a clear promise to buy/sell a name at a given price, you at least have the OPTION of seeking legal redress. Minors are essentially untouchable in that regard.

 

[Nexus]

I would add that I agree with the sentiment that age does not need to have bearing on professionality and intelligence. There are many minors here that I truly envy for their business savvy, esp. at their age. I'm thinking a bit outside of that reality.

~ Nexus

 

[izopod]

I'm not sure about how children under 18 (my def. of minor) are treated outside the US, but here they are treated like children. They can't enter into contracts, and if you do enter into one with a minor it isn't valid.

I think the biggest concern is the porn issue. If you sell "Joe Blow 14 year old" GreatXXX.com and he/she creates a porn site, are you liable for damages if this kid gets into trouble with it. Could it be considered selling "Porn" to a minor? A big stretch of the imagination but in the US anything is game. Saying you didn't know he was a minor doesn't cut it anymore under US law. They've really clamped down on the "I didn't know" Loophole.

Lawyers seem to go after every angle of the law these days so hence my reason for this line of questioning. As well as is it a good idea to buy and sell names from a minor.

I will say this, the minors that I know of on this board are definitely worthy individuals. They seem to be tech savvy as well, far more savvy then when I was there age. So I hope they don't take this as a slight. I think it's however important we do discuss this issue.

 

[Nexus]

Originally posted by izopod
I think the biggest concern is the porn issue. If you sell "Joe Blow 14 year old" GreatXXX.com and he/she creates a porn site, are you liable for damages if this kid gets into trouble with it. Could it be considered selling "Porn" to a minor?

That sounds like a little bit of a stretch, but selling developed websites is not uncommon here on DNF. If someone sold GreatXXX.com and it had CONTENT on it, you'd certainly be in trouble if the buyer turned out to be under 13 years old. All sorts of worms being opened up. Under 18 but above 13? I think there would only be "contract" problems. This is why age is important... if everyone under 18 is considered a "minor" (and they are), it should be noted that selling with SOME minors can be more serious than selling to OTHER minors.

I think the problem is a clear concern. I think it would be really good to move away for "noticing" it, to figure out some possible solutions to address it. Some people will never think its a problem, but I think for those that do, figure out what possible solutions may exist might be more worthwhile.

I think one SOLUTION might be this...

I'll preface this by saying that it may be wholly unnecessary and be solved be telling everyone to "ask your buyer/seller their age"... moreover, any solution could not be considered "authoritative", but could at least be grounds for misrepresentation on the part of the party who is a minor. Many respectable members have been surprised in retrospect that they were doing business with minors, and that's kind of scarey.

DNforum establishes three automated categories:
Categories: Minor13, Minor, Adult

EVERYONE is required to enter a valid birth date to be a member in the forum. If it is discovered that the birth date you entered is incorrect... your account can be terminated (after failing to correct it after being reported). As I noted, these "categories" would be automated. As time passes, they are always displayed based on the existing birth date in the system (in fact, there would NOT be a real field added called "age level" in the database or anything, it is always a dynamic valuation). You may elect to have your birth date public (and appear in the calendar when it is your birthday, as it does now), or you may elect to have this be "private" (and not show up ANYwhere except in determining your age level valuation), but it DOES need to be in the system (currently mine is blank, because if entered, it is immediately public information, and I feel that with ID theft on the rise, I'm aware of why this may be dangerous to bandy about). Once your birth date in the system, you are automatically designated as a Minor13 (anyone 13 and younger), a Minor (Under 18 and over 13), or an Adult (18 and over). These automated designations can be viewed in any full user profile view, though it would appear no where else (no one need wear this on their virtual "sleeve", ie. under their user avatar or post count in every message they make).

While members are encouraged to do business with one another, doing business with minors or minor13's should have encouragements to involve parents or guardians in the process, and like the great URDP advice that has been posted, it would be useful if some "doing business with minors" tips could be posted as well.

Well, that's my constructive solution. It is left up to individuals to act accordingly, but at least people are "armed" with the tools to conduct business competantly.

Best Regards,
~ Nexus

 

[Mr Webname]

"thanks for the agreed sale, please send $$ via Paypal to [email protected] - as this is an adult name/site, please confirm on the Paypal payment slip that you are over 18 - failure to confirm will result in non-selling of the domain"

Archive all such receipts in a dedicated file.

 

[actnow]

Just for the record, I am 15 yrs old.

(In my mind!)

 

[lotsofissues]

If no one has reported a problem, nor forsee one--- Then, I don't see a reason for a solution to be proposed.

 

[.com.net.org]

We don't sign contract for buying and selling domains here.
So, age has nothing to do with this business.

 

[Scooter]

I have found some of the minors on DNF to be very professional.

But somehow I don't think that will wash in court if something turns nasty and an unsuspecting adult is responsible because a trade/deal/money-exchange/contract is invalid.

Putting all personal opinions aside, maybe DNF management need to protect themselves from being named the middle-man in a potential lawsuit.

 

[Nexus]

Originally posted by lotsofissues
If no one has reported a problem, nor forsee one--- Then, I don't see a reason for a solution to be proposed.

Believe it or not, the first time this issue came up was when this forum was being sold the first time. Many on the forum did not even know the original forum owner was a minor, and it was a significant amount of money being exchanged with certain assumptions being made. If I remember correctly, it became one of many concerns going on at the time that cumulatively affected the direction the events eventually took. That said, I'm not sure its wise to wait for the first real legal problem before looking into the issue.

Originally posted by .com.net.org We don't sign contract for buying and selling domains here.
So, age has nothing to do with this business.

I'm not sure I follow the logic. Any agreement, written or not, is a contract. Often times you "enter into" a contract, and not necessarily "sign off" on contracts. It just gets stickier and stickier the less formal you make it (and not binding at all if you're dealing solely with a minor). I'm no lawyer, but that's always been my understanding. When "minors" are involved, I've heard that they legally are not expected to understand the implications of whatever contract they enter into. So, if you buy a really nice domain name for say $300 to $500 (or more), and your seller was a minor... along with their parents, they could take you to small claims court and get the name back if they felt the sale was a mistake. The court will say "shame on you", and you've wasted a lot of time, when simply involving their parents would have cleared everything up.

I do like Mr. Webname's solution though. Simple and elegant is always best. I'm sure most people don't even think to take this easy procedure however. Could still save some hassle and back and forth with a little foreknowledge about the buyer/seller's status.

~ Nexus