Some advice - traffic smaffic

[acronym007]

Now you don't have to listen but I think this is a good piece of advice for nebiwes and even some experienced Domainer's.

Please don't ask if a good single word .com domain has traffic.

This has got to be the single most useless question I see asked by people when someone is selling a fine .com domain name here in DNF or elsewhere. It's like asking a Realtor if the million dollar waterfront property has a nice view. Traffic is the basis for allot in this industry, it's taught everywhere, but it is not the only factor for all sales. You see, there is inherent value in a word & name alone. It does not need any traffic to have high value. I have determined that there are typically only two primary reasons why people ask this question:

1. Because they are new and they will not buy anything without traffic
2. Experienced people will ask to try to lower the sellers sales expectation by justifying a traffic sale

This is not aimed at anyone nor meant to be offensive as I have been guilty of asking this same question only to think later that, boy that was a dumb question. A domain name like vote.com does not need any traffic to have value, to lose sight of this is to misunderstnad this business and potentially to miss out one big opportunity for resale or development. I hope we can all benefit from understanding this industry as many parts, traffic is only one part, not the only part. I personally would buy all single word .com's tomorrow if I had the funds, not one traffic question asked. Food for thought.... Cheers,

Your Friend,

Acro

 

[typeins]

hahaha

It's good to hear some common sense..

Domains have FAR more value beyong revenue x's.. if they are quality names.

Yes domain-name-like-this.com only has value of revenue x's but not truly good domains.

I have been saying this for a LONG time but a lot of people today only know tbis valuation model.

 

[Rarethings]

Domains have FAR more value beyong revenue x's.. if they are quality names.

Yes domain-name-like-this.com only has value of revenue x's but not truly good domains.

I have been saying this for a LONG time but a lot of people today only know tbis valuation model.

That is the most intelligent statement I have heard all day.

 

[typeins]

hehe thanks..

It just sickens me to hear people ask about some of our domains via email.. questions like "how much traffic does it get?" i dont even bother replying anymore..

I've responded so many times yet people dont understand, the ones that do they dont even ask.. well at least when it comes to truly valuable domains which will hold their value even if they receive 1 hit per day.

 

[Leading Names]

The methodology of pricing generics based on PPC multiples should be considered very much the bare minimum; there are so many other factors on top to consider.

To summarize…

I disagree with you comments in part, traffic is a factor, all be it a small one (and one of many) for strong generics.

- Rob

 

[typeins]

Yes it is a factor, but it should not be the main factor.

People these days rely almost solely on that factor and its importance far outweighs the other characteristics.

This is in general of course.. the smart ones dont rely so strongly on this, its mainly the newer people who werent around before the whole ppc craze started.

 

[acronym007]

traffic is only one part, not the only part

I disagree with you comments in part, traffic is a factor, all be it a small one (and one of many) for strong generics.

- Rob

Read it again Rob, sounds like we agree. Cheers,

Acro

 

[Leading Names]

Read it again Rob, sounds like we agree. Cheers,

Acro

It's this I disagreed with...

"Please don't ask if a good single word .com domain has traffic.

This has got to be the single most useless question I see asked by people when someone is selling a fine .com domain name here in DNF or elsewhere."

I would have no hesitation in asking for traffic stats on a prime .com, and would use this info to assist me with making an offer (along with other factors of course, brand value etc).

- Rob

 

[acronym007]

I gotcha, you are right then we do disagree. LOL. I don't feel a name like vote.com would ever need to produce stats to increase it's sale value and any PPC income on a name like that is negliable in the grand scheme of things. A firm offer from a serious end user or buyer would be able to justify the expense without PPC. For example, some PPC on a generic product like boots could be for boots or boats in Germany. The end user might careless about the traffic from people looking for shoes when they are developing a boat website. However, in all fairness, if the name is somehow not as strong a generic and the consideration is for PPC, then yes, PPC income is a more important factor to consider for the buyer to form a fair offer. Cheers,

Acro

 

[Leading Names]

I gotcha, you are right then we do disagree. LOL. I don't feel a name like vote.com would ever need to produce stats to increase it's sale value and any PPC income on a name like that is negliable in the grand scheme of things. A firm offer from a serious end user or buyer would be able to justify the expense without PPC. For example, some PPC on a generic product like boots could be for boots or boats in Germany. The end user might careless about the traffic from people looking for shoes when they are developing a boat website. However, in all fairness, if the name is somehow not as strong a generic and the consideration is for PPC, then yes, PPC income is a more important factor to consider for the buyer to form a fair offer. Cheers,

Acro

So if you were considering buying vote.com you wouldn't ask for traffic stats? I don't believe ya :cheeky:

- Rob

 

[acronym007]

Honestly, I would not and have not in the past. In the past I bought a few single word generics in this forum and through drops and with those I never asked for traffic stats. I used to ask because it was at one time a conditioned response. Now, I have learned otherwise. Seriously, I might be buying a couple of .com's from people in here and when it's done you can ask them if I asked for traffic stats. LOL. I won't, I just want the name. If you have a nice .com you want to sell I promise not to ask for any traffic stats. :boink: From my experience with Real Estate, property values always go up over time so I can't see why buying a domain property now at xxx,xxx amount would have any negative side effect in future years. :tea: Cheers,

Acro

 

[GT Web]

From my experience with Real Estate, property values always go up over time so I can't see why buying a domain property now at xxx,xxx amount would have any negative side effect in future years. :tea: Cheers,

Acro

You make some really solid points and I agree with much of what you have said in this thread. However, domain names are a different beast than traditional real estate. Houses, buildings, pieces of land, there is a very high probability that these will exist the way they are now in 5, 10, 15, 20 years time. Domains are evolving so quickly, who knows what this business will look like in 10 years.

I just worry about spending a ton of money on generic names expecting them to last a lifetime, when in reality a company like Google or MSN might modify their software to make domains much less relevant and valuable. I am not saying this will happen...and I'm not saying I hope it does. I'm only saying domains are always going to be more risky than traditional real estate, so comparing the two wont always work properly.

Good thread topic, BTW!

 

[typeins]

You also wont have the opportunity to get such a % gain in such a short time on realestate.. nor will the fees be as low as they are here ( stamp duty, taxes etc etc )

Yes its more volatile, yes there is less security.. But thats life.. It's well worth the risks.

 

[dvestors]

I've never had an end user ask for stats. You get asked for stats when dealing with people just looking for traffic/rev domains. You can't post a decent name here and expect not to be asked for stats. We all want traffic. Traffic = Money.

There are single word .com's that don't get much traffic. I don't think there is anything wrong with asking for stats on names where traffic isn't obvious. After all, traffic domains are real domains. Isn't that the point of being "premium?" Built in traffic - no need to advertise unless you want to increase the size of your stack.. :biggrin:

Stats assist the potential buyer in figuring out the length of ROI. Not many investors like to jump in blindly. Would you buy a house or piece of property you never saw, had inspected, or knew what part of town it was in? Would you buy stock from a company you knew nothing about, other than its' name? Would you buy a used car without looking under the hood, not knowing how far it could take you? Would you spend 5,6,7 figures on a domain without asking for stats? :suspicious: (given that it's not of extreme quality like sex.com, loans.com, mortgage.com, etc. and you are not an end user)

I would only buy a premium name without asking for stats, if 1 of these 3 apply to the name:

a) High traffic is obvious
b) It's of much interest to me, and I am very motivated to build or own.
c) I know of an end user I can flip it to.

 

[David G]

Though I agree traffic should not be the main criteria assuming it's a popular keyword(s) name nevertheless you should reply regarding traffic questions since if a name gets typeins and traffic it makes it either more valuable or perhaps less so as traffic is an indicator of value. There is certainly absolutely nothing wrong with being asked the question no matter how good the name is. And yes, it's true that many end-users never ask or care about traffic anyway.

 

[typeins]

When you get so many enquiries via the whois.. especially when you arent actively trying to sell domain names, it gets very old answering the same questions over and over and over.

Serious buyers VERY rarely just come out and ask in the first email about traffic etc.. Hence the reason why they now get ignored.

If i was set on selling the domains, yeah i would follow up.. however i have no obligation to reply to emails i dont deem serious.. to each their own.

 

[WhoDatDog]

I have been talking-up brandable names for way too long now. I have spent about 90 percent less time on this board in the last few months and one of the reasons is because of traffic questions.

Another reason is because I cannot stomach seeing revenue multiples talked about. The lack of understanding of rates of return drives me nuts, though why should I really care when most of my names are brandable?

At the end of the day I finally graduated to a place where instead of thinking I know something I actually do know things and I have the results to prove it. On my highest purchases I have never asked for stats and on my highest sales the buyers have not asked for stats, and when I see a name on Dn Journal that sells for hundreds of thousands of dollars I don't even wonder how much traffic it gets....I usually try to figure out who got raped on the deal and who is laughing all the way to the bank. Nine times out of ten I believe the buyer got the deal of the century.

A little while back Blue.com sold for $500K. It seems like a lot, but if you really think about it there is almost no limit to what this name could be worth. I mean, it's Blue.com! I don't think that most people understand that when you put these names in the context of an advertising budget for a decent sized corporation then these prices are still way too low for the super names.

I keep seeing arguments popping up about how the internet could change or even disappear. I cannot respond to that...it would take me forever. I guess you shouldn't chase the most beautiful women in the world....they all grow old. Nobody lives forever.....the Internet will be one of the worlds biggest changes for hundreds of years, and I know I am covered in my lifetime. The odds of an event taking place in my lifetime that would end the practice of typing in a website name is so astronomical that it isn't worth mentioning.

People are always going to need to dial the phone by punching in the numbers and they have to get their information online by typing something in.....voice recognition won't cut it.

I just think it's crazy that most people are going after names that cannot be spelled or pronounced because they feel that the best dotcoms are out of their reach. Of course, most of us are always trying to get rid of our worst names I guess. It still seems strange seeing all of these crazy names and extentions that don't make any sense. Its as if people are trying to reinvent the language with names like pokers and real estates.

This is a great business and it will stay that way for a long time. Every person I have tried to teach or explain this to says "great idea", but they just sit on their asses and do nothing about it. I tell them that its not an idea...I am actually doing it every day and doing well, but they prefer their
9-5 grind I guess. I guess it is best that only a small percentage of domainers understand the big picture...I am certain that less than one out of 10,000 people in regular life even have a clue that the gold-mine is right under their noses. I guess we should be happy about that.

 

[Duckinla]

I don't think you can put one hard and fast rule to this discussion.

If you're buying loans.com for development, the existing traffic matters because is is relevant and part of the value. The other part of the value is that it's memorable.

If your buying Blue.com for development, the existing traffic is most likely completely irrelevant to what you plan to do and therefore has no reason for discussion. The value is that it's easy and it's brandable.

If your buying lowns.com, the traffic is very important.

I think Revenue is the part of the equation that is really insignificant for premium names.. If I'm buying lowns.com, or loans.com, I have a pretty good idea what I can do with that traffic. How much traffic is coming to the site is much more important than how well the current owner is monetizing it.

 

[GT Web]

I don't think you can put one hard and fast rule to this discussion.

If you're buying loans.com for development, the existing traffic matters because is is relevant and part of the value. The other part of the value is that it's memorable.

If your buying Blue.com for development, the existing traffic is most likely completely irrelevant to what you plan to do and therefore has no reason for discussion. The value is that it's easy and it's brandable.

If your buying lowns.com, the traffic is very important.

I think Revenue is the part of the equation that is really insignificant for premium names.. If I'm buying lowns.com, or loans.com, I have a pretty good idea what I can do with that traffic. How much traffic is coming to the site is much more important than how well the current owner is monetizing it.

Exactly.

We need to stop over-simplifying things.

Traffic is important for all names, at least to a point. If you (not talking end users at this point) wanted to buy Orange.com, I'm sure you would offer a heck of a lot more if it got 5000 type ins per day as opposed to 10.

There is not one rule that applies to all names and websites...and each of us values traffic differently depending on the name, price and future use for the name itself.

 

[typeins]

This is true.. but i guess my one sided comments were intended to battle the mega traffic obsession these days

I do understand its importance, was just trying to show a different side to the argument.