- Joined
- Apr 15, 2002
- Messages
- 5,755
- Reaction score
- 63
In a post yesterday per the suggestion of Gregr I said I would not post anymore on this fiasco. Instead, I am reprinting some but not all of the important posts on this issue below. This is for the benefit of those who did not read them all as they were scattered in several threads and also to summarize some of the facts. Thank you.
----------------------
The biggest value in this board is the mods...mattyp, safe and snoopy...Paying these exceptionally mature, level-headed guys for what they've done here over the past half-year would have cost many thousands of dollars...To be honest with you, if this forum is sold, I'd root for these three domain professionals to form a site together. Miles. P.S. Namethink, Do you really think the Mods were more valuable than the 1220 Members?? LOL.
----------------------
One other thing - are you sure this wasn't some big stunt to draw ratings? I noticed that ever since the site went down for several days, the number of people online has dropped below the usual averages. After word has been bandied about all day about this, tonite's numbers have shot up to 60 and are threatening the record. If this mis-step costs you your spot in the domain forum business you might still have a bright future as a network TV executive! Duke of Earl
-----------------------
You guys should realize the forum owner Dan is only a HS Sophomore, just 16 yrs old. Isn't that amazing? I did not know about this until today, thinking he was in his 20's and in College in error. How dumb and unknowwedgable was I when I was 16, and poor was I at communicating and negotiating (did not even know what that was), and so short of money driving a junk car at the time.
Yet Dan managed to bring us all together and make dnforum.com a success (along with the great Moderators and Members) so in some way he was a genius, and far smarter than most of us at age 16. You need to understand when you are 16 you are quite prone to things like errors in judgement and poor communications. These issues were heavily involved in this forum sale fiasco. RealNames
---------------------------
The rumored buyer fully realizes the great value of the Mod's, and stated this many times. It's just that you way over-exagerated them compared to the Ownership and Membership values, paying little attention to Dan's genuis in starting this, and the members and their great posts until later on in other posts you made.
Miles, you caused indirectly, with your rebel rousing post the fire-storm of negativity toward dnforum, Dan and the rumored buyer. You are also an OK guy but need to grow-up Namethink! RealNames
---------------------------
"Dan said - Snoopy and mattyp offered me an amount to sell the site. I was extremely happy to have been offered this" if this is true .. The "Trio' should Cut the kid a break...and don't pressure him... He is 16...for godsake.....this is not an agreement among Capitans of Industry... What's not clear: is if Dan was pressured and rushed to make a decsion... Don Giavanni
Also - ...It sounds like "Dan" made a mistake ..so what is a grown up to do ? Take advantage of it? ...
--------------------------
Though 16 year olds do not know how to negotiate. A 16 year old negotiating against some one who is a professional with years more experience (not to mention probably close to twice his age?) isn't exactly like a completely equal negotiation amongst adults. O.C.
---------------------------
A sixteen year old can change his mind and make a contract NULL even if it's in writing. This public policy is to protect minors from entering into unfair negotiations, etc... The law protects minors from being taken advantage of due to their lack of knowledge about contracts and finances. Minor may disaffirm or affirm the contract after he turns 18. Also, under UCC 2-201, sale of goods over $500 requires the agreement to be in writing. ECommando
--------------------------
eCommando, you are exactly right. I wasn't going to bring it up the other day, but now that Dan's age is public knowledge, contract law should perhaps be mentioned here, specifically the ability of minors to contract and the statute of frauds. Legally, Dan is fine. I would hope everyone here will cut him some slack on the whole "honor" thing. Dan was born in 1986, for hecks sake. I didn't have a damn clue what I was doing when I was 16, and I suspect no one else here did either. Grabby.
-------------------------
...It's none of my business. i know those mods do a great job here. But then they want to take over the forum and make some profit from it. Prasit.
--------------------------
I have read this thread and other threads about Dans and other peoples ethics etc. and I have a question -- how old are the moderators and the prospective buyer? Did they know that they were dealing with a minor?
If they know or just suspected this, I think it is totally unethical of them not to ask Dan to reconsider the deal and talk it over with his parents. In many countries in Europe it would be a criminal offence to make a deal with someone who you *know* is a minor. The law is there to protect our minors so they don't get screwed up by greedy adults and from what I read, the law is needed. Jimr.
---------------------------
End of the line. Definitely a bummer. Looks like the end of the line for this community no matter how you slice it. Our fine former moderators are likely to start up their own forum and take about half of the current membership with them. Whoever the new buyer is will soon find he is not getting as much as he thought when he agreed on a price. With the current membership scattered between this forum, new and existing boards - the vibrant community we have had will no longer exist. Guess we'll just have to get out the shovels and get ready to rebuild! Duke of Earl.
--------------------
Sorry to see that the hard working and dedicated mods were cheated. Very sad indeed. Rest assured snoopy, sys, MattyP, that if you decide to start a forum, most of the members here would join you. Not much value then for the "new" owner of dnforum.
NameBox.
---------------------
Hey - don't forget us, the original 'crew' who made DNF like what it is today. Without us, there would be no-one here, and nothing to mod! Devolution.
--------------------------
...without the mods DnF's value is significantly lower. Omni.
--------------------------
If you have lost .. Safe, Snoop and Matty..This joint is scewed to put it mildly. Americar.
--------------------
Is it possible to delete our accounts? Brujah.
---------------------
I am not really up to date about whats happening but I know that without DNforum members this site has no value. The members/traffic is what gives it its value. Am I the only one who feels like they are being pimped/sold here. Tippy.
---------------------
...it seems the going policy for folks that leave (dnforum) is to have all their posts deleted (by the old Mod's) as well. Were there to be any mass Exodus, the number of threads where people are talking to "ghosts" would multiply exponentially. A fairly poorer property I'd say... were many posts removed like this all together. Who-Wiz.
-----------------------
It is THE MEMBERS. Some posters here, Namethink in particular and a few others, have been heavily posting how it's mostly the 3 resigned Moderators who are the reason for success. Though Mods were very important to dnforum past success (and did a great job), the Members are FAR FAR more important.
Thanks to all those negative posts from people claiming the 3 Mods were by far most important, it created a firestorm of great negativity toward the Owner Dan, and the rumored buyer.
Some members are wanting to leave, cancel membership here, move to a new forum the 3 Mods are said to be starting, all because of all the great negativity displayed by some rebel rousers here.
Now that its been revealed the owner Dan is surprisingly a 16 yr old 2nd year high school student young man (who made some 16 yr old mistakes) suddenly Namethink and thers are not so critical but it seems like the damage has already been done for the most part. RealNames
----------------------
The rumored buyer had absolutely no plans to change anything at all, even to the slightest degree. He was going to run it exactly the way it was always run, keeping the same Moderators and exact same format, not changing a thing. In fact, no one would had even noticed a change of ownership.
Yes, perhaps a more experienced owner would be beneficial (especially regarding no server down-time goes as he has his own high speed server) but a big negative to the site would be no experienced Moderators as they all resigned, and heavy migration to the old Moderators rumored new web-site, which would take lots of traffic and posts from here unfortuantely. RealNames.
-----------------
Every one wanting to delete their accounts or leave because the forum might be sold is ridiculous. Imagine yourself in Danny's position at age 16. O.C.
--------------------
Was Dan under any legal obligation to close this sale, or did the mods exercise some pressure to get a 16 year old kid to agree to a "bargain" price.
It's one thing to say that Dan (as one of the mods implied) was not a "man of this word", but one might also see 3 grown men, pressuring a 16 year old kid, knowing full well that they were getting a super deal, and wanting to close before any counter offers came into play.
Now, I'm not accusing anyone here of anything. It just seems that this thing has COMPLETELY blown out of proportion. Surely, some accomodation can be made with the former mods. The righteous indignation is really a bit much, as I don't think that the mods, or any of us have, have had completely "clean hands" throughout our lifetimes.
Lets give the kid a bit of a break. One can argue that the "man of this word" thing can be enforced to ones advantage, when its convenient. The story just seems to be getting a little more complicated than the black and white version of heroes vs. villain which first surfaced.
The mods, as adults, should have discussed issues of possible compensation prior to engaging in their activities. They surely must have envisioned a day when Dan could have sold these forums. What then? Were any agreements on the table? If not, then they should have been forseen.
...I sense that the righteous indignation is a little to fervent. Namebox.
------------------
Announcement: The New Board Is...xxxxxx.com
For those interested, the new site of MattyP, Sys, Snoopy and others is: www.xxxxxx.com Avatars are free. Register your handle before someone else does! DNPowerful.
---------------
unethical - You guys know there are no mods now.. and you are spamming.. how dare you judge Dan's behavior? please look at yourself first. Zealot.
-----------------
Unethical. Then spamming against self-promotion rules. And we aren't going to follow three mods like little ducklings. O.C.
-----------------
DNF's current price tag is set at $7200 not $5500, outsiders should not make assumptions nor give sarcastic rhetoric....Whois-Search, I do not see how DNF's market value has decreased so dramatically. That new board, xxxxxx looks like shit. It's only members will be those who have befriended the three mods. Meanwhile DNF will continue to grow with a future user-base that will not even have an awareness of the 'xxxxxx' forum, nor this whole fiasco in general. DS better get there marketing budget up if they want to compete. Because living off DNF veteran members will not last to long. Onyx.
......I think the launching of xxxxxx, as well as all the recent events that have occurred. All of which have decreased DNF's value. It's evident, I am not denying this. Onyx.
-----------------
Onyx said - QUOTE "Why don't you guys stop being immature and mind your own damn business. Yes, the mods contributed a lot. However they encompass a very minuet percentage of DNF's active community. It's time other people step up in there place, should they decide to leave. I mean christ, Dan is 16years old! Can he not be joyous on this occasion without this entire community spoiling it? Why should he be obligated to compensate anyone, let alone these three men who are doing fairly well financially with or without ownership of DNF. To put it simply put. It's Dan's domain, vB license, and marketing that even brought these three individuals together.
Now do not get me wrong, allow me to reiterate once more. Snoopy, MattyP, and Safesys and contributed a lot. Great administrators, even better then Dan. However that is all they are, administrators. They are not owners, nor financial backers of DNF. Therefore deserve nothing more then a pat on the back. Onyx.
-----------------
Originally posted by gregr Realnames, I applaud your courage. I think you're very brave to get into this firestorm. I think you should lay low. You may be doing more harm than good for your cause. At this point you could only benefit by letting the membership know how you plan to improve this place. You could start out by saying you have a dedicated server waiting for the sites arrival. Which you may or may not have. I was a latecomer to these boards so I missed out on most of the mods policing of this place. Based on posts I see, I'm sure they did a very great job. I'm sure that had Dan not experienced all the server problems none of this would be happening. Vultures tend to know when prey is in distress. I know this because I was one of the vultures. I think, and I may be wrong, that in the end, the mods felt they could save $5k by foregoing the purchase of this site and start their own site. More power to them. I wish them luck. I also wish you luck. You all may need it. Greg Ricks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Gregr, appreciate this from a voice of sincerity and reason like yourself. Yes, it's true about the Vultures, Lord Knows I was one myself, thinking of the obvious need for cash that was there due to the downtimes, etc. Yes, I will lay low and not post anymore about this entire fiasco. This is my final post on this. Thanks for suggesting I do so. It seems like now that the negative doom and gloom guys all know they all look quite foolish (and need to grow-up) re the attacking of a 16-yr old HS Sophomore (treating Dan like he was a corporate executive - LOL), they in turn have the need to attack someone else - me RealNames!
-----------
Thank you for your comments. That's all folks!
----------------------
The biggest value in this board is the mods...mattyp, safe and snoopy...Paying these exceptionally mature, level-headed guys for what they've done here over the past half-year would have cost many thousands of dollars...To be honest with you, if this forum is sold, I'd root for these three domain professionals to form a site together. Miles. P.S. Namethink, Do you really think the Mods were more valuable than the 1220 Members?? LOL.
----------------------
One other thing - are you sure this wasn't some big stunt to draw ratings? I noticed that ever since the site went down for several days, the number of people online has dropped below the usual averages. After word has been bandied about all day about this, tonite's numbers have shot up to 60 and are threatening the record. If this mis-step costs you your spot in the domain forum business you might still have a bright future as a network TV executive! Duke of Earl
-----------------------
You guys should realize the forum owner Dan is only a HS Sophomore, just 16 yrs old. Isn't that amazing? I did not know about this until today, thinking he was in his 20's and in College in error. How dumb and unknowwedgable was I when I was 16, and poor was I at communicating and negotiating (did not even know what that was), and so short of money driving a junk car at the time.
Yet Dan managed to bring us all together and make dnforum.com a success (along with the great Moderators and Members) so in some way he was a genius, and far smarter than most of us at age 16. You need to understand when you are 16 you are quite prone to things like errors in judgement and poor communications. These issues were heavily involved in this forum sale fiasco. RealNames
---------------------------
The rumored buyer fully realizes the great value of the Mod's, and stated this many times. It's just that you way over-exagerated them compared to the Ownership and Membership values, paying little attention to Dan's genuis in starting this, and the members and their great posts until later on in other posts you made.
Miles, you caused indirectly, with your rebel rousing post the fire-storm of negativity toward dnforum, Dan and the rumored buyer. You are also an OK guy but need to grow-up Namethink! RealNames
---------------------------
"Dan said - Snoopy and mattyp offered me an amount to sell the site. I was extremely happy to have been offered this" if this is true .. The "Trio' should Cut the kid a break...and don't pressure him... He is 16...for godsake.....this is not an agreement among Capitans of Industry... What's not clear: is if Dan was pressured and rushed to make a decsion... Don Giavanni
Also - ...It sounds like "Dan" made a mistake ..so what is a grown up to do ? Take advantage of it? ...
--------------------------
Though 16 year olds do not know how to negotiate. A 16 year old negotiating against some one who is a professional with years more experience (not to mention probably close to twice his age?) isn't exactly like a completely equal negotiation amongst adults. O.C.
---------------------------
A sixteen year old can change his mind and make a contract NULL even if it's in writing. This public policy is to protect minors from entering into unfair negotiations, etc... The law protects minors from being taken advantage of due to their lack of knowledge about contracts and finances. Minor may disaffirm or affirm the contract after he turns 18. Also, under UCC 2-201, sale of goods over $500 requires the agreement to be in writing. ECommando
--------------------------
eCommando, you are exactly right. I wasn't going to bring it up the other day, but now that Dan's age is public knowledge, contract law should perhaps be mentioned here, specifically the ability of minors to contract and the statute of frauds. Legally, Dan is fine. I would hope everyone here will cut him some slack on the whole "honor" thing. Dan was born in 1986, for hecks sake. I didn't have a damn clue what I was doing when I was 16, and I suspect no one else here did either. Grabby.
-------------------------
...It's none of my business. i know those mods do a great job here. But then they want to take over the forum and make some profit from it. Prasit.
--------------------------
I have read this thread and other threads about Dans and other peoples ethics etc. and I have a question -- how old are the moderators and the prospective buyer? Did they know that they were dealing with a minor?
If they know or just suspected this, I think it is totally unethical of them not to ask Dan to reconsider the deal and talk it over with his parents. In many countries in Europe it would be a criminal offence to make a deal with someone who you *know* is a minor. The law is there to protect our minors so they don't get screwed up by greedy adults and from what I read, the law is needed. Jimr.
---------------------------
End of the line. Definitely a bummer. Looks like the end of the line for this community no matter how you slice it. Our fine former moderators are likely to start up their own forum and take about half of the current membership with them. Whoever the new buyer is will soon find he is not getting as much as he thought when he agreed on a price. With the current membership scattered between this forum, new and existing boards - the vibrant community we have had will no longer exist. Guess we'll just have to get out the shovels and get ready to rebuild! Duke of Earl.
--------------------
Sorry to see that the hard working and dedicated mods were cheated. Very sad indeed. Rest assured snoopy, sys, MattyP, that if you decide to start a forum, most of the members here would join you. Not much value then for the "new" owner of dnforum.
NameBox.
---------------------
Hey - don't forget us, the original 'crew' who made DNF like what it is today. Without us, there would be no-one here, and nothing to mod! Devolution.
--------------------------
...without the mods DnF's value is significantly lower. Omni.
--------------------------
If you have lost .. Safe, Snoop and Matty..This joint is scewed to put it mildly. Americar.
--------------------
Is it possible to delete our accounts? Brujah.
---------------------
I am not really up to date about whats happening but I know that without DNforum members this site has no value. The members/traffic is what gives it its value. Am I the only one who feels like they are being pimped/sold here. Tippy.
---------------------
...it seems the going policy for folks that leave (dnforum) is to have all their posts deleted (by the old Mod's) as well. Were there to be any mass Exodus, the number of threads where people are talking to "ghosts" would multiply exponentially. A fairly poorer property I'd say... were many posts removed like this all together. Who-Wiz.
-----------------------
It is THE MEMBERS. Some posters here, Namethink in particular and a few others, have been heavily posting how it's mostly the 3 resigned Moderators who are the reason for success. Though Mods were very important to dnforum past success (and did a great job), the Members are FAR FAR more important.
Thanks to all those negative posts from people claiming the 3 Mods were by far most important, it created a firestorm of great negativity toward the Owner Dan, and the rumored buyer.
Some members are wanting to leave, cancel membership here, move to a new forum the 3 Mods are said to be starting, all because of all the great negativity displayed by some rebel rousers here.
Now that its been revealed the owner Dan is surprisingly a 16 yr old 2nd year high school student young man (who made some 16 yr old mistakes) suddenly Namethink and thers are not so critical but it seems like the damage has already been done for the most part. RealNames
----------------------
The rumored buyer had absolutely no plans to change anything at all, even to the slightest degree. He was going to run it exactly the way it was always run, keeping the same Moderators and exact same format, not changing a thing. In fact, no one would had even noticed a change of ownership.
Yes, perhaps a more experienced owner would be beneficial (especially regarding no server down-time goes as he has his own high speed server) but a big negative to the site would be no experienced Moderators as they all resigned, and heavy migration to the old Moderators rumored new web-site, which would take lots of traffic and posts from here unfortuantely. RealNames.
-----------------
Every one wanting to delete their accounts or leave because the forum might be sold is ridiculous. Imagine yourself in Danny's position at age 16. O.C.
--------------------
Was Dan under any legal obligation to close this sale, or did the mods exercise some pressure to get a 16 year old kid to agree to a "bargain" price.
It's one thing to say that Dan (as one of the mods implied) was not a "man of this word", but one might also see 3 grown men, pressuring a 16 year old kid, knowing full well that they were getting a super deal, and wanting to close before any counter offers came into play.
Now, I'm not accusing anyone here of anything. It just seems that this thing has COMPLETELY blown out of proportion. Surely, some accomodation can be made with the former mods. The righteous indignation is really a bit much, as I don't think that the mods, or any of us have, have had completely "clean hands" throughout our lifetimes.
Lets give the kid a bit of a break. One can argue that the "man of this word" thing can be enforced to ones advantage, when its convenient. The story just seems to be getting a little more complicated than the black and white version of heroes vs. villain which first surfaced.
The mods, as adults, should have discussed issues of possible compensation prior to engaging in their activities. They surely must have envisioned a day when Dan could have sold these forums. What then? Were any agreements on the table? If not, then they should have been forseen.
...I sense that the righteous indignation is a little to fervent. Namebox.
------------------
Announcement: The New Board Is...xxxxxx.com
For those interested, the new site of MattyP, Sys, Snoopy and others is: www.xxxxxx.com Avatars are free. Register your handle before someone else does! DNPowerful.
---------------
unethical - You guys know there are no mods now.. and you are spamming.. how dare you judge Dan's behavior? please look at yourself first. Zealot.
-----------------
Unethical. Then spamming against self-promotion rules. And we aren't going to follow three mods like little ducklings. O.C.
-----------------
DNF's current price tag is set at $7200 not $5500, outsiders should not make assumptions nor give sarcastic rhetoric....Whois-Search, I do not see how DNF's market value has decreased so dramatically. That new board, xxxxxx looks like shit. It's only members will be those who have befriended the three mods. Meanwhile DNF will continue to grow with a future user-base that will not even have an awareness of the 'xxxxxx' forum, nor this whole fiasco in general. DS better get there marketing budget up if they want to compete. Because living off DNF veteran members will not last to long. Onyx.
......I think the launching of xxxxxx, as well as all the recent events that have occurred. All of which have decreased DNF's value. It's evident, I am not denying this. Onyx.
-----------------
Onyx said - QUOTE "Why don't you guys stop being immature and mind your own damn business. Yes, the mods contributed a lot. However they encompass a very minuet percentage of DNF's active community. It's time other people step up in there place, should they decide to leave. I mean christ, Dan is 16years old! Can he not be joyous on this occasion without this entire community spoiling it? Why should he be obligated to compensate anyone, let alone these three men who are doing fairly well financially with or without ownership of DNF. To put it simply put. It's Dan's domain, vB license, and marketing that even brought these three individuals together.
Now do not get me wrong, allow me to reiterate once more. Snoopy, MattyP, and Safesys and contributed a lot. Great administrators, even better then Dan. However that is all they are, administrators. They are not owners, nor financial backers of DNF. Therefore deserve nothing more then a pat on the back. Onyx.
-----------------
Originally posted by gregr Realnames, I applaud your courage. I think you're very brave to get into this firestorm. I think you should lay low. You may be doing more harm than good for your cause. At this point you could only benefit by letting the membership know how you plan to improve this place. You could start out by saying you have a dedicated server waiting for the sites arrival. Which you may or may not have. I was a latecomer to these boards so I missed out on most of the mods policing of this place. Based on posts I see, I'm sure they did a very great job. I'm sure that had Dan not experienced all the server problems none of this would be happening. Vultures tend to know when prey is in distress. I know this because I was one of the vultures. I think, and I may be wrong, that in the end, the mods felt they could save $5k by foregoing the purchase of this site and start their own site. More power to them. I wish them luck. I also wish you luck. You all may need it. Greg Ricks
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Gregr, appreciate this from a voice of sincerity and reason like yourself. Yes, it's true about the Vultures, Lord Knows I was one myself, thinking of the obvious need for cash that was there due to the downtimes, etc. Yes, I will lay low and not post anymore about this entire fiasco. This is my final post on this. Thanks for suggesting I do so. It seems like now that the negative doom and gloom guys all know they all look quite foolish (and need to grow-up) re the attacking of a 16-yr old HS Sophomore (treating Dan like he was a corporate executive - LOL), they in turn have the need to attack someone else - me RealNames!
-----------
Thank you for your comments. That's all folks!
