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What gives domainers a bad name..

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joellefko

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I recently had a bad experience with a squatter who sniped a domain and then held it over my brother's head for large profit. I was in the middle of this since I helped my brother with transfers of his domains from godaddy to 1and1.com. 1 out of nearly 100 did not make it for some reason. May have been the one agreement that was never okayed or something along those lines. In this case the domain had literally NO VALUE at all to anyone outside my brother who had established a site there. I approached the squatter as soon as we realized the site was down only days after he acquired it and explained the situation basically asking for his understanding and professional courtesy. Got a nice response but it was apparent that this person's business is acquiring domains that slip through the cracks and then holding them ransom. My brother decided not to be bullied and allow this person extort him. Instead to make it right I'm taking my time and money to rebuild a new site and contact all the folks who had linked to his old site (33 back links) Once this is complete the domain will be completely useless. The squatter's info is below. Where's the honor and character in this business?!

Domain Squatter:

Kevin

Charlotte, NC 28270
United States
 
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LarryWentz

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Hmmm........ I disagree with you posting this persons whois info just because you and your brother are poor with domain management.

The only correct thing I saw you say was "this person's business is acquiring domains". (note - you said the name has NO VALUE and then mention it has 33 backlinks). What did you offer this person to buy the name back?
 
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joellefko

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Larry,

I get the impression you're a domain squatter too. As are most folks here I'm sure. There SHOULD be a certain tack and ethics that goes along with the domain trade. Unfortunately often this is not the case. It's rare that a domain is lost due to transfer error and it was obvious this was the case. ie. it was not an oversight or issue with contact info changing etc. Further the domain is so obscure it has no value except holding it over the person's head who had a live site there. I heard a story recently from a friend who lost his cell phone in a cab... he called his phone and the guy who answered demanded $100 in order to meet him to return it. My friend was forced to do this since all his contacts were in there. This actually happened to my friend believe it or not. This is the same damn thing.

In answer to your question my brother would have paid a couple hundred for it.. I'm pretty positive the domainer paid $59 - $69 so that would have been a nice profit and the right thing to do... he wanted much more and now he's stuck with it. The thing is in this case as mentioned even to my brother, it's not worth any more than a couple hundred... I would not register it for 5.99 assuming the links were gone. That's what's sad about the whole situation. It's just a big hassle more than anything.

Joel
 

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Larry,

I get the impression you're a domain squatter too. As are most folks here I'm sure.

Do you actually think coming here and saying the above would get you support in your cause?

The fact of the matter is, you/your brother lost the domain due to mismanagement. The domain is rightfully in someone else's possesion. They can ask 1 trillion for it if they want.

We've all lost domains due to some oversight or whatnot, but we don't go around posting the new owners info.
 

Compassion

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and the fact of the matter - many of us are not squatters
 

draggar

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I've removed the sensitive part of the WhoIs information, please read the rules.

http://www.dnforum.com/rules.php#2

2. You will not violate a persons privacy by publishing against someone's will information that is private and personal unless you have evidence of a crime or scam, and then you may post in the Unresolved Forum Sales or Legal Issues forums. Your post will be deleted if you cannot back up your claim. Please also refer to Rule #28.

Joel - you mentioned that the domain "has no value" but your post contradicts that, it has value to you which means that there is a demand for it. You also mentioned that your brother had a site on it which means there was a good chance that it had traffic and backlinks - even a domain lik XMZYGFMVBGZXVRB.com would have a good value with those two elements.

The person who has it now probabaly got it though a drop service and paid $60-$70 for it. What is your idea of a "huge profit"? From your response, it seemed that he wanted over $500 for it.

My advice would be to just wait a week to see if he releases it, many people buy these domains, park them to test the traffic and revenue and if it isn't worth it, they'll drop it (for a refund - a small fee). Now that you've had the interaction with him, though, chances are he won't release it ni the 5 days.

What happened;
Was it unethical? Technically no, it's business
Was it illegal? Unless your brother has a TM, then no.
Was it shady? Yes, but there are no laws against being shady.

Take this experience and learn from it. If domains are important to you, monitor them closely. Have WhoIs flags / alerts set on them so you'll see if anything changes with them and monitor your portfolio closely. It is a hard lesson to learn that most of us have had to learn the hard way.

Check the domain's availability in a week, the current owner may drop it since he didn't sell it.
 

BLazeD

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It's called a drop and it happens thousands of times every single day.
 

jasdon11

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Larry,

I get the impression you're a domain squatter too. As are most folks here I'm sure. There SHOULD be a certain tack and ethics that goes along with the domain trade. Unfortunately often this is not the case. It's rare that a domain is lost due to transfer error and it was obvious this was the case. ie. it was not an oversight or issue with contact info changing etc. Further the domain is so obscure it has no value except holding it over the person's head who had a live site there. I heard a story recently from a friend who lost his cell phone in a cab... he called his phone and the guy who answered demanded $100 in order to meet him to return it. My friend was forced to do this since all his contacts were in there. This actually happened to my friend believe it or not. This is the same damn thing.

In answer to your question my brother would have paid a couple hundred for it.. I'm pretty positive the domainer paid $59 - $69 so that would have been a nice profit and the right thing to do... he wanted much more and now he's stuck with it. The thing is in this case as mentioned even to my brother, it's not worth any more than a couple hundred... I would not register it for 5.99 assuming the links were gone. That's what's sad about the whole situation. It's just a big hassle more than anything.

Joel

$100 for the guy to meet your friend with the phone that he lost - sounds cheap - your friends a lucky guy!

Sometimes fella, you've got to pay for the mistakes you make - sometimes with cash (if you're lucky) sometimes with your time. You can always get more money.
 

Focus

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Hey I am a domain squatter, so bugger off! lol :pound:
 

LarryWentz

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Larry,

I get the impression you're a domain squatter too. As are most folks here I'm sure. There SHOULD be a certain tack and ethics that goes along with the domain trade. Unfortunately often this is not the case. It's rare that a domain is lost due to transfer error and it was obvious this was the case. ie. it was not an oversight or issue with contact info changing etc. Further the domain is so obscure it has no value except holding it over the person's head who had a live site there. I heard a story recently from a friend who lost his cell phone in a cab... he called his phone and the guy who answered demanded $100 in order to meet him to return it. My friend was forced to do this since all his contacts were in there. This actually happened to my friend believe it or not. This is the same damn thing.

In answer to your question my brother would have paid a couple hundred for it.. I'm pretty positive the domainer paid $59 - $69 so that would have been a nice profit and the right thing to do... he wanted much more and now he's stuck with it. The thing is in this case as mentioned even to my brother, it's not worth any more than a couple hundred... I would not register it for 5.99 assuming the links were gone. That's what's sad about the whole situation. It's just a big hassle more than anything.

Joel

LOL Joel,

I have a feeling you don't know squat. Let me make this very clear to you - I am a domain investor who used to spend countless hours (getting up at 5:30 AM for the morning drops every day at one time) and many dollars registering domains for either my own use or for resale. This includes paying services to aid in my registration efforts. It's a full fledged "business" and not a charity cause for poor business managers like yourself and brother who fail to renew their domain names and want their domains back for a dime. Did your brother actually offer $200 for the name? Hmmm.... Irregardless - the new owner has a right to sell the name for the price he wants or not sell it to you at all.

Your story reminds me of a domain I had registered years ago which was a name of a town in England. I saw the name was dropping on a list for which I paid a monthly service fee to get the daily drop lists & I was the lucky person in the world who spent their money and time in efforts to grab that name for my "domain business". Apparently - the name used to be used by a bed & breakfast inn and the old owner contacted me wanting to buy back the domain for only a dash above the registration costs. I refused and didn't even give a counter offer. The guy thru a little kiddie tantrum just like yourself because he failed to realize that domains are a business and not a free charitable service for poor business managers.

I have sold over 1000+ domains in the last 10 years in my business. I don't register trademark domains unlike some domain buyers who I actually do refer to them as domain squatters. I don't even understand why you are at a domain business forum making stupid statements because you know domain squat. The new owner of your brothers former name is not responsible for fixing your business errors. He is responsible for building his domain business which for many domainers includes registering domains with backlinks & existing traffic - "domains with value".
 

joellefko

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Draggar,

You make some good points. It can be boiled down to it's just business but being in the middle of it I asked for some professional courtesy and understanding and did not get it. Yes may not be illegal but it's definitely shady under the circumstances. My whole point is this is the type of thing that gives domainers a bad name. Judging from many of the responses many people in this business have the F-em attitude. Sometime it's best to do the right thing rather than try to make the most money. I for one would have given it over at cost... that whole Karma / good character thing. I think enough said. Best to everyone.

Joel
 

katherine

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You are not the first person who realizes he has lost a name and comes up with harsh words.

Do you truly believe the new registrant has bought the name just for the purpose of holding it for ransom ? I doubt as the vast majority of expiring names are effectively abandoned, a tiny fraction being a result of 'accidents' or plain lack of oversight. 'Waiting' for the previous owner to come back would usually be waste of time and money. Sometimes, people lose their name then somebody picks it up and they get paranoid as a result. They think they were personally targeted, but they know nothing about the drops :)
Obviously, without knowing the name we can only speculate on its value, or lack thereof.
 

BLazeD

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Cellphone example = not business
Domain example = business
 

joellefko

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If you knew the domain you would think differently... like I expressed the domain holds no value to anyone outside my brother. He agrees that it was a bad choice but he did create a basic site there for an extremely niche purpose and this site was live for a few years... yes this was definitely targeted due to the reason that it was a live site to hold it for ransom. I'm not going to give exposure to the domain by mentioning it. Links are in process of being taken down now. Really a dead issue once this done.. since the domain is no good he'll be stuck with it. Yes you can call it business... but again... doing business in this manor is exactly what gives domainers a bad name. Rightfully so in my opinion.

Joel
 

draggar

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You make some good points. It can be boiled down to it's just business but being in the middle of it I asked for some professional courtesy and understanding and did not get it. Yes may not be illegal but it's definitely shady under the circumstances. My whole point is this is the type of thing that gives domainers a bad name. Judging from many of the responses many people in this business have the F-em attitude. Sometime it's best to do the right thing rather than try to make the most money. I for one would have given it over at cost... that whole Karma / good character thing. I think enough said. Best to everyone.

(The following is just a hypothetical statement - it is not meant to endorse either side in this).

So, the other day I noticed a domain that was deleting soon though Pool. I did some research and found out it has backlinks (which means existing traffic that will not slow down as fast as regular type-in traffic) plus it used to be a site (meaning more traffic).

After I got the name, I start getting emails from someone claiming to be the previous owner's brother insisting that I give the domain back to them and giving me low-ball offers. Then I see him calling me unethical and a cyber-squatter and also accusing me of extortion and bullying on a very popular domaining forum.

It amazes me how people think businesspeople, like ourselves, are charities. I got this domain though legal means and now I get these accusations and insults because I prefer not to give a domain back to someone claiming to be someone it is not easy to prove.

Sound familiar? Trust me, working with the public (in one of the most difficult industries) for as long as I have I've learned to see things from the other side, which has made me very good at customer service (consistently recognized by my supervisor in my previous position). Most people do not think to look at things though the other person's eyes (I really wish they made the "Point of View" gun from HGTTG movie). I could have made the segment more harsh, and in reality it would have been.

Yes, there are some domainers that would have worked with you, maybe even sold the domain back to you for cost + an administrative fee, but there are also many that would not have. Some would have sold it back to you for the small fee regardless of the domain's value, but this percentage would have grown smaller and smaller the higher value domain it was (who here would sell a LL.com back to a previous owner who let it drop for $100?).

It is a hard lesson, yes. But it will be a pointless lesson that you will most likely make again if you do not learn from it. Watch your portfolio, even set up "alerts" for your more important domains (or all of them), even look into a domain management software package so you can easily keep an eye on your domains.

Also, your claims that "the domain has no value outside of you and your brother". I find that hard to believe. I tried to get draggar*com (when I tried, 99% of Google results were me posting in forums or MUD characters, and so on). Let's say someone registered it and wanted $25,000 for it. Obviously someone else thought it had value and the same can go for any domain.

As for posting the domain, you don't have to worry about link building. You can say domain,com (a comma instead of a period), domain(dot)com, domain(.)com, domain/com etc. these will not build links nor will it be picked up by Google for searches for domain.com
 
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dodo1

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Hi Joel,

I can understand why you're feeling bad about having lost your domain. It could have been your fault, it could have been a glitch on either the side of GoDaddy or 1&1... We might never find out. But you really cannot blame the person who registered the domain when it dropped.

You know, you only have the right to own a domain as long as you pay for it or as long as it is registered in your name. As soon as it drops it gets back on the open market. So I cannot see anything wrong about somebody catching a domain that was lost. In fact, most domains aren't lost, they get deleted on purpose. The new registrant of the domain probably hasn't even known about the domain's past or about your brother's website. He might have seen the backlinks and bought the domain because he was hoping that it would receive expired traffic.

I'm sure you will agree if I say that nobody can be the rightful owner of a domain forever. As with many other things in life, ownership expires when you do not pay or when you actively give up ownership.

In your case the loss of the domain is very annoying, of course, but to blame the new owner isn't the right thing to do, in my opinion.

However, the situation would be different if the dropped domain was protected by a trademark. In that case I would agree that nobody other than the original registrant and owner of the trademark should be allowed to buy and use that domain name.

This being said, I wish you best of luck with getting the domain back at some point in the future. If you don't, I hope that moving the website to the new domain will flow smoothly and that you'll be able to get the traffic back up.
 

katherine

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Any domain that has good history/backlinks/PR/traffic potential is at risk of being snatched upon expiry plain simple.
 
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