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What is it with lawyers?

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Garry Anderson

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This is not specifically having a go at any one lawyer - just ALL those that take the thirty pieces of silver to try 'steal' domains off people for their client ;)

For example - Brett Lewis (http://www.lewishand.com) seems to have caught a case of the dreaded overreach fever - I hope it is only temporary.

http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?t=225469&page=2

I would have responded in the thread it came from - but don't have platinum membership.

Brett wrote:

Trademarks 101: dictionary words can be trademarks. See, e.g. Apple. The issue with dictionary words is often a company claiming trademark rights outside of the areas in which it provides goods or services, and then leveraging limited rights to assert claims against a domain name. It happens all the time. The ONLY reason that our client pursued a claim in this case was that John's client was using its trademark to compete directly against it. We lost.

Yet Brett was acting for person with "Engineer.(who cares what TLD)" for the purpose of advertising engineering jobs - to stop another using "Engineer.(another who cares what TLD)" for same purpose.

Like this gave his client sole worldwide use of the word "engineer" for advertising engineer jobs.

If we were asked to represent the same client again under the same circumstances we would do it again in a heartbeat. Under the facts, which largely were excluded from the decision, this was a fairly clear case of bad faith.

Bad faith?

I doubt the corrupt USPTO would allow the word "Engineer" for his client to be registered for such a purpose.

Guess why Brett ;)

There is no infringement, tort or wrong-doing when using words descriptively - no "cause of action" - these are Reverse Domain Name Hijacking attempts.

How am I wrong?

Garry ~ wipo.org.uk ~ woolwichsucks.co.uk ~ skilful.com
 

Brett Lewis

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You guys are going to make me work!

Here's how you are wrong. First of all, John Berryhill argued for 7 pages that my client lacked trademark rights. The panel disagreed and found that we did. Why? First, we were not using ENGINEER to describe engineers. My client provided a job listing/job search service. Is the word ENGINEER descriptive of a job service? There is some relation, when the word is taken in context with an engineer job search site, but that means that the mark is most likely suggestive.

In any event, even if you argue that his mark is somehow descriptive, my client has made extensive use of the mark in commerce in connection with job search services for roughly ten years. He has roughly 70,000 visitors per day to his site and at least 15-20 major corporate clients that currently place jobs with him. Many, many people associate ENGINEER.NET with my client's services.

It is absolutely not true that descriptive marks are not entitled to trademark protection. Let's look at the Trademark Manual of Examining Procedure:

1209.01 Distinctiveness/Descriptiveness Continuum

With regard to trademark significance, matter may be categorized along a continuum, ranging from marks that are highly distinctive to matter that is a generic name for the goods or services. The degree of distinctiveness -- or, on the other hand, descriptiveness -- of a designation can be determined only by considering it in relation to the specific goods or services. Remington Products, Inc. v. North American Philips Corp., 892 F.2d 1576, 13 USPQ2d 1444, 1448 (Fed. Cir. 1990) (the mark must be considered in context, i.e., in connection with the goods).

At one extreme are marks that, when used in relation to the goods or services, are completely arbitrary or fanciful. Next on the continuum are suggestive marks, followed by merely descriptive matter. Finally, generic terms for the goods or services are at the opposite end of the continuum from arbitrary or fanciful marks. As stated in H. Marvin Ginn Corp. v. International Association of Fire Chiefs, Inc., 782 F.2d 987, 989, 228 USPQ 528, 530 (Fed. Cir. 1986), "[t]he generic name of a thing is in fact the ultimate in descriptiveness."

Fanciful, arbitrary and suggestive marks, often referred to as "inherently distinctive" marks, are registrable on the Principal Register without proof of acquired distinctiveness. See TMEP §1209.01(a).

Marks that are merely descriptive of the goods or services may not be registered on the Principal Register absent a showing of acquired distinctiveness under 15 U.S.C. §1052(f). See TMEP §1209.01(b) regarding merely descriptive marks, and TMEP §§1212 et seq. regarding acquired distinctiveness. Merely descriptive marks may be registrable on the Supplemental Register. 15 U.S.C. §1091.


How does a mark acquire distinctiveness?

1212 Acquired Distinctiveness or Secondary Meaning

. . . nothing herein shall prevent the registration of a mark used by the applicant which has become distinctive of the applicant's goods in commerce. The Director may accept as prima facie evidence that the mark has become distinctive, as used on or in connection with the applicant's goods in commerce, proof of substantially exclusive and continuous use thereof as a mark by the applicant in commerce for the five years before the date on which the claim of distinctiveness is made. . .

If a proposed mark is not inherently distinctive, it may be registered on the Principal Register only upon proof of acquired distinctiveness, or "secondary meaning," that is, proof that it has become distinctive as applied to the applicant's goods or services in commerce. If the applicant establishes, to the satisfaction of the examining attorney, that the matter in question has acquired distinctiveness as a mark in relation to the named goods or services, then the mark is registrable on the Principal Register under §2(f) of the Trademark Act, 15 U.S.C. §1052(f).

* * *

The purpose and significance of secondary meaning may be described as follows:

A term which is descriptive ... may, through usage by one producer with reference to his product, acquire a special significance so that to the consuming public the word has come to mean that the product is produced by that particular manufacturer. 1 Nims, Unfair Competition and Trademarks at §37 (1947). This is what is known as secondary meaning.

The crux of the secondary meaning doctrine is that the mark comes to identify not only the goods but the source of those goods. To establish secondary meaning, it must be shown that the primary significance of the term in the minds of the consuming public is not the product but the producer (citations omitted). This may be an anonymous producer, since consumers often buy goods without knowing the personal identity or actual name of the manufacturer.


So, the rule is not that a word used in a descriptive manner cannot obtain trademark rights. The rule is that a decriptive mark CAN attain distinctiveness once it is used widely enough that the public associates it with a particular good or service. Some examples of well-known descriptive marks are CHAPSTICK, HOLIDAY INN, FORD MOTOR COMPANY,
and WORLDBOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA.

The rule that I believe that you are confusing is where "Company A" owns a dictionary word trademark, but uses their mark in a non-descriptive way -- let's say APPLE to sell computers and iPods. "Company B" registers <Apple.biz> and starts selling apples -- a descriptive use. Company A claims that Company B infringed its rights. In such a case, Company A's rights would likely be limited, and Company B's use would likely be legitimate.

I have no fever. I am perfectly well!!!
 

DomainLobe

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Brett
Thanks for taking the time to explain this to us 'non-lawyers'.
Glad to hear you are well :)
 

Garry Anderson

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Brett - thank you for your comprehensive and exhaustive post :)

Having communicated with USPTO, DoC, Nominet and UK Patent Office and several lawyers - including our good friend Mr Berryhill - I already understand most of what you write.

Just to put a few points:

1. John argued that your client lacked trademark rights possibly because he is right - in that nobody can claim sole use of a descriptive word e.g. "apples" no matter what you want to do with the apples; buy, sell or rent.

2. Just because it is not called engineerjobs.tld (a more full explaination) does not mean it isn't being used descriptively.

3. Saying engineer.tld is only "suggestive" of a site that you may go to looking for an engineer or just apply for job as one - surely it is being used in a descriptive manner e.g. not used as brand to sell something like spaghetti?

(edit) Indeed, you give as example on your site "Sugar does not describe a dating service, but is suggestive of some aspect of dating" - and you HONESTLY cannot tell the difference between this and the descriptive use of a word to show exactly what goods or services are being offered?

4. You compare newly coined term like "chapstick" to the word "engineer" - and don't you know that HOLIDAY INN has no rights to the word "inn" to stop others using it for the purpose - that FORD MOTOR COMPANY has no rights to the words "motor" or "company" for car companies - that WORLDBOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA can't claim the word "encyclopedia" to stop others using for that purpose?

5. I am glad you have no fever - but as I understand it "overreach fever" is more a syndrome in attorneys i.e. a group of symptoms that include the nodding of head to business client - even though they know there is no real case ;)

Please - how am I wrong?

Garry ~ wipo.org.uk ~ woolwichsucks.co.uk ~ skilful.com
 

Brett Lewis

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Gerry,

Respectfully, you missed the point about acquired distinctiveness. Judges do not even always agree on which marks are suggestive and which are descriptive. The point is that once a mark is widely enough is used in commerce, or for a long-enough period of time, it can attain distinctiveness.

All of the marks I listed in my posting were held by courts to be descriptive. Chapstick is a balm for chapped lips that comes in stick form. Ford is a last name. Last names are descriptive by rule. Even disclaiming rights in the word Inn, the commercial impression of Holiday Inn is highly descriptive. Same thing with Worldbook Encyclopedia. You might argue differently, but courts held that each of these marks was descriptive.
Descriptivess is determined in the context of the services rendered.

Register.com owns seven trademark registrations for REGISTER and REGISTER.COM in the field of domain name registrations and related services. Their registrations were granted for acquired distinctiveness.

Dictionary.com defines an engineer as, "a person trained and skilled in the design, construction, and use of engines or machines, or in any of various branches of engineering: a mechanical engineer; a civil engineer." My client did not use the word Engineer to describe engineers, or to promote an engineering service. Rather, he operated an online job listing service for engineers. In legal parlance, it requires a leap in imagination to make the connection between the word engineer and an online service for listing engineering jobs -- the very essence of a suggestive mark.

In any event, my client's ENGINEER mark attained secondary meaning through use in commerce, elevating it to the status of a protectable trademark.

Your claim that a "descriptive" word cannot be trademarked is mistaken. It is simply not true. It is also not true that the owner of a descriptive trademark lacks exclusive rights to their mark in the field in which they provide goods or services. Be very careful about that distinction. The owner of a descriptive mark that has attained distinctiveness through use in commerce absolutely owns the right to exclude others from infringing their mark in their field of business -- they cannot, however, as a rule, exclude everyone from making non-infringing, non-competitive uses of their mark.

In the engineer.net case, my client had no issue with John's client registering and using engineer.info and engineer.biz in a non-competing Web site. It was only after John's client started operating a competing service, and after two attempts to resolve the issue had failed, that he opted to file a UDRP.
 

Duckinla

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Respectfully, you missed the point about acquired distinctiveness.

I think I get your point, the way monster.com is distinctly different in our minds than just the word "monster".

Ironically, I would arque that when the acquired distinctiveness includes the extension (engineer.net vs. engineer) that by definition, no other extension could be considered confusingly similar. If Monster.com has acquired it's distinctiveness from the word monster by adding "dotcom", then it should also be considered to be distinct from monster.net, .org, .biz, etc.
 

Brett Lewis

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If Monster.com has acquired it's distinctiveness from the word monster by adding "dotcom", then it should also be considered to be distinct from monster.net, .org, .biz, etc.

It's an interesting thought, but under U.S. law, the TLD has no trademark significance. In other words, by law, there is no difference between Monster.com, Monster.net and Monster. However, if Joe Smith operates a Web site at Monster. info, which provides information about monsters, or sells party supplies, his use should be legitimate, as long as no other company established rights to use "Monster" in those fields.

More information about this can be found at http://tess2.uspto.gov/tmdb/tmep/. (sorry, I don't have more time right now to mine the TMEP for examples).

Trademark law can be very confusing, and it is very easy to fall into some traps and misunderstandings about what rights it does or does not create. If it was easy to grasp, I'd be out of a job.

Finally, what people should be arguing about is whether a certain amount of use is enough to render a descriptive mark distinctive, not whether a descriptive mark can be protected.
 
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