For Sale Why the .CA will always struggle

[TheLegendaryJP]

I may not make any friends with what I am about to say but here goes. For the longest time now I have watched several two and even one word dot ca domains be offered for rock bottom, tank of gas prices. Over and over again, day in and day out. There is nothing wrong with this I said to myself, after all the top quality one word generics still obain good money, why should I care about the rest?

Well I do care, the math is simple, only so many 5 and perhaps 6 figure dot ca names exist. With so many of those held tight by a small group of investors its daunting to say the least to obtain one. How can one continue to make a REAL living in dot ca if he can only obtain $XXX or LESS for something the dot com see's 10's to even 100's of thousands for?

That lead me to contemplate what factors are affecting the market ( mainly reseller ). What is hurting this space and what can we do to fight back. Here is where I lose friends, stop the fire sales, blowouts, $50 flips and whoring out hundreds of names a month for less than a night out for dinner. That's pretty much it, straight forward, stop flooding the market and demand better prices. You may say we only want what the market will bear and that's just what they are worth, BS. You create the market, you set the prices and you ultimately are killing yourself.

I want to throw up everytime I see a nice two word. ca, for $100, I think is this guy really happy with a $75 profit and his continual offering at these prices and flooding the forum with them is a negative force.

In my opinion I would start to regulate the .ca sales forum. One thread per week per user. Limit the number of names allowed to list at one to a handful at MOST, maybe less. Create a sub dot ca sales forum where $1K+ names are posted, start to draw a line.

As long as the dot ca sales forum contuinues as it does, no one will make a real living except for a handful. And at the cost of the guy who is happy with $50-$75. Remember, you set the market, its YOUR reseller market.

 

[theinvestor]

JP, do not worry my friend.

The reseller market is weak but believe me there are end users paying.

There are people who are selling below value to resellers and to end users because they don't understand what others are paying. This is because there is no exposure and that many of the sales are private deals which no one will ever know about.

Let them sell...it's their loss. It won't impact us when it comes to selling to end users. If you're in this game to just make a profit from resellers it may be a long time before you see any significant increase in prices.

Good luck to those who understand how the .ca game works...cause for those who don't ..they will be losing for a long time with renewal fees!

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

Very true, apart from the super generic sales among resellers it is an end user direction one in the space needs to be taking.

I also agree that most perhaps do not realize the sales that do occur here or elsewhere that are never published. That would have a positive impact and while I personally would love to share my numbers I also have to respect the buyers desires.

 

[Sonny Banks]

Sorry for my post I don't want trash your thread...you said some very interesting things.

The reason I'm here is because we in Italy have the same problems with the .it extension (exact analysis you have done) and the same issues with italian forum on DNF.

I ever thinked the REAL domainers was happy to shake the italian market on the first domaining forum in the world giving a shake offering nice names for sale so our community will grew up.

But I'm wrong.
They only post crap names here so the results are: zero sales, zero transactions, only crap names for sale and a market slowing every single day.

It's hard to admit because I'm italian and we in Italy use .it more than .com and because some friends made few xx,xxx sales on .it extension but...the problem with these TLD's is the nature of domainers of these countries.

No transactions, no good names = no public respect for these extensions and your analysis is right 100%.

 

[theinvestor]

I don't mind pointing out a few things...but last year i sold an LLLL.ca for $xx,xxx and last week i sold an LLL.ca for $xx,xxx.

This may be a wake up call for some....but to those who list fixed prices of LLL.ca's just because they own a lot in bulk...consider yourself selling yourself short because there are end users who are willing to pay.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

@Carter, youre right, it is a common problem for a lot ccltd.

 

[liberator]

Its definitely a reflection of the current economy, I have much the same thoughts as you JP about pricing and effect it has on our reseller market. But I can also sympathize with the domainer who finds himself with inventory he can't renew and its either make $50/$35/$10 off the name or take a complete loss.

I don't think anyone is selling cheaply because of their valuation of the name but more their need to have the name sold. Unfortunately doing so also leaves other valuating the name and simular names much lower.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

You could be onto something, I can understand the need to free up cash but at $50-$100+ a pop you would think they would cut back on quanity and focus on quality, limited releases and higher prices. jmo

But it does affect us all. Furthermore it seems as with the premiums being held by a select few it seems this flooding is also by a select few. How bad they need money I am not sure but I will start to monitor names and reg date, is it a buy on the drop offer here for $50 more in X weeks or what. Either way it hurts, the consistant drip is killing us all.

At the end of the day something needs to be done and the only control we could exercise is postings and quantities.

 

[ianccc]

my answer is that every time I turn on the TV there is a .ca domain that is 3-4 words long and someone has plowed $$ into an advertising campaign such as:

HowRealtorsHelp.ca - etc - we know there are lots if not 100’s of examples

So the problem I see the end users with some $$ go to there marketing/media houses and have a pow-wow, the result hand-reg a 3-4 word domain plow the $$ you save getting extorted by a speculator into promotion.

So the market is going around us. Because the only two things a hooker and a speculater have in common is they will both #$%$# you for money

Now how’s that for controversy.....................

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

Because the only two things a hooker and a speculater have in common is they will both #$%$# you for money

Now how’s that for controversy.....................

Is this from personal experience or :lol:


I agree that the end user market is going around domainers as a whole. I think we are maybe 1 hr apart ( I am in Niagara ) and yes seen at least 4 or more new commercials featuring .ca with 3-4 words.

However I am more focused on the reseller market and what is affecting those prices. But I do know what you mean Ian.

 

[whitebark]

I for one love the highly affordable totally usable .ca domains being offered here and elsewhere. I don't depend on traditional domaining - ie - flipping, sourcing end-users etc to make a living. I take an affordable domain name and add value by developing it. I have sold many after the fact by people just plain old finding them on the search engines this way. It doesn't even have to be something special most of the time to attract end-users or to earn profit from. If no end-user ever appears I still profit. It's a win-win situation - and you can't beat that with a stick!

So go affordable .ca domains! Keep 'em coming... k:

 

[Raider]

In my opinion I would start to regulate the .ca sales forum. One thread per week per user. Limit the number of names allowed to list at one to a handful at MOST, maybe less. Create a sub dot ca sales forum where $1K+ names are posted, start to draw a line.

If the Forum were to do what you suggest, they would have to do it for every CCTLD. One CCTLD does not deserve special preference over another.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

If the Forum were to do what you suggest, they would have to do it for every CCTLD. One CCTLD does not deserve special preference over another.

That is true, however I am a believer in democracy. If one particular cctld forum cried out against it ( majority ) and not just the majority of constant sellers flooding the forum btw, than keep things as they are. Each forum needs to discuss their cctld and what is best independently I would say. I can only speak for the dot ca space.

I dont see it as SPECIAL preference just taking action. No mod or admin made an offer, just sellers discussing among ourselves.

 

[Poker]

Democracy?..sounds more like collusion with other owners to corner a market.

WhiteBark has the right idea if you ask me, and a much more realistic one at that.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

Democracy?..sounds more like collusion with other owners to corner a market.

WhiteBark has the right idea if you ask me, and a much more realistic one at that.

Corner a market? Never crossed my mind, I am only looking to see the space grow and right now there are too many weeds, choking growth. I am not suggesting price fixing but rather quantity and quality control.

 

[Poker]

yeah I understand, just seems kind of artificial/out of harmony with business and free markets...

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

yeah I understand, just seems kind of artificial/out of harmony with business and free markets...

Nothing against free markets but even free markets have rules. Actually at the end of the day limiting the number of posts or quatity of names is nothing new. The best idea is a sub forum for $1K+ names ( maybe a grouping of all $1K+ cctld ). Just like Namepros High Priced section, each name submitted and reviewed before posted. Each cctld forum would have a member to handle their cc's names so all the work isnt on one or two people. Furthermore one or two mods/reviewers could never know every cctld market any way.

 

[Namefox]

Yep, I'm to blame ;-) eep: I'm probably not going to make any friends with this statement either but I don't have $xx,xxx or probably more sitting in the bank. So I flip and quadruple my money; sometime more and sometimes less. I am happy with that. Don't go trying to mess with the forum here by suggesting we can post once per week. I know your thread was not targetted at me directly and I admit I can be a serial poster :wave:

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

Yep, I'm to blame ;-) eep: I'm probably not going to make any friends with this statement either but I don't have $xx,xxx or probably more sitting in the bank. So I flip and quadruple my money; sometime more and sometimes less. I am happy with that. Don't go trying to mess with the forum here by suggesting we can post once per week. I know your thread was not targetted at me directly and I admit I can be a serial poster :wave:

No worries, main goal would honestly be a $1k+ ccltd forum.

I have nothing against making a dollar

 

[hugegrowth]

I am all for a free market in .ca, buy and sell as you please. I don't agree with limiting posts or sale amounts beyond what the forum already allows. You can't force or co-ordinate prices of .ca domains to go up, just right now there aren't enough end users or speculators to soak up all the good .ca domains. Those of us who hold dozens, hundreds or thousands of .ca's are in a waiting game, and you have to hope to get a few end user sales per year to cover renewals and (hopefully) make some profit. And sometimes you have to firesale some of the portfolio, sell a name for $30 to renew three others, etc. And I agree with Whitebark's approach, people should be developing some domains into a webpages or a full site - generate revenue to cover renewals and make the developed domain more valuable. The approach of 'sticking together' and holding back sales and bumping up prices as a group isn't feasible, and wouldn't work IMO. I am sure the market will go up over time, and you never know where that end user sale will come from. In the last year I picked up two .ca's in TBR for $35 each and sold them for around $1500 each to end users. I'd never have gotten those prices here, the end users aren't looking here (yet?). And sometimes I offer domains for sale here at low prices and can't believe they aren't taken. It seems in these sales threads you get the odd premium .ca listed, but more often it's domains in the xx to xxx range that you know could go for more if the right buyer comes along. Anyway, I say let the market be the market and go the way it wants.