100 people in the world own 2 million domains

[Theo]

If you really believe whatismyip dot com sold for $360k then you must also believe in the Easter Bunny.

 

[sasquatch]

Show me a generic domain that earns a lot of money on PPC each day, and I'll show you 10 unique non generic domains that earn 100 times that amount each.

That is just about the point I'm trying to make. Generic domains are not too valuable to the largest companies because they can and do sell their things and/or inform/entertain their audiences through their own sites and/or brands. More importantly, generic names are only dilluting the power of their own brands. Why would you be doing search engine business calling yourself "SearchEngine.com" (are those 100-500 uniques REALLY THAT IMPORTANT in the greater scheme of things?) when you could call yourself "Google", and thereby make every single consequent mention of your name an instant company recognition, or in malicious intents - a potential TM breach.

Generic names are only very valuable, other then to their owners, to those individuals/companies that possess no significant resources to otherwise compete with the big boys. Those who can not afford prolonged and sustained branding efforts from scratch. Therefore by purchasing generic names they hope to appropriate a slice of market pie in a particular segment/industry which would otherwise be unreachable to them completely.

So generic names are extremly overvalued today, because their values are driven by few shrewd entities holding out (in no need to sell), and by those late-into-the-game arrivals who, as I said before, cannot compete at all otherwise. Unfortunatelly, those latter ones almost always think that the generic names they buy will exclusively make the "names" for them, when in fact, it is their business smarts, plans and strategies that will make or break them.

 

[Chaiki]

So generic names are extremly overvalued today, because their values are driven by few shrewd entities holding out (in no need to sell), and by those late-into-the-game arrivals who, as I said before, cannot compete at all otherwise. Unfortunatelly, those latter ones almost always think that the generic names they buy will exclusively make the "names" for them, when in fact, it is their business smarts, plans and strategies that will make them or break them.

I have to respectfully concede this debate to you because it is taking a long time. I have made my points and you have too, but if domains are truly dead, overvalued and ultimately unimportant, how come you are trolling at DNForum.com? Isn't there a vacant seat at webmasterworld.com where you can extoll the virtues of future development of a new search engine at superpalooza.com? Not trying to shoo you away, just pointing out the obvious. It begins and ends with the name in my opinion. Let the hourglass of time show us who is ultimately right.

 

[sasquatch]

If you really believe whatismyip dot com sold for $360k then you must also believe in the Easter Bunny.

No I don't believe in Easter Bunny (though I used to at one point) but I believe in DnJournal.com :-D

Or are you telling me that all those listed "sold" prices overthere are crap anyway? Hmmm, I know some of them definitely are... but I thought that after my complaints of "shady" reported sales, Duke indeed checks every reported sale personally?

Why? Are you the seller?

And how much do targeted 50k daily uniques go for these days anyway?

It begins and ends with the name in my opinion.

Yes, of course... except, it is brand names, and not generic names that rule the online and offline commerce.

Though, ultimately, it is very ironic that your username here is branded, while mine is generic :-D (bah)

 

[Chaiki]

My name is foreign. But generic.

 

[uglypeoople.com]

hmmm.....very interesting debate.

i own domainaholics.com and domainaholic.com .....i should develop these names so you guys can debate on there about domains.....hmmm.....and put some google ads on there for you guys to click on incase you get bored.....hmmm....or should i just buy shampoo.com and park it......hmmmm

a developed domainaholics.com website might be worth more than shampoo.com.....hmmmm.

what do you guys think???

a developed domainaholics.com website or parked shampoo.com ???

 

[mike031]

I fail to comprehend why would someone pay 500k (or God forbid 1 mil for an audience of 100-500 per day and an income of 10k (or even 20k) per year? Where's any sort of smart business logic or any sense there? And what happens if PPC industry shambles and folds? How do you valuate the meager couple hundred uniques per day then?

generic domains that are with a ppc (parked) are really underutilized... earnings are minimal...there is virtually no growth and the whole experience of a visitor is pretty crappy.

lets take the domain recipes.com for example, which gets a lot of type-ins... but imagine if it had real content....lots of it....... tons!! the traffic would grow exponentially. people would be coming back to it over and over again.... they will tell their friends... oh yea, and this things called "bots" of the likes of google and yahoo will pick up the content too and with the proper search engine optimization this domain is bound to make it to the top. so from a few hundred uniques to a few thousand to hundreds of thousands is possible and that is why somebody who is serious about doing business on the net and wants the ultimate name in that certain niche will pay up.... millions if that is what it takes.

take chris chena for example..... he is all about development and he understands that a good domain + good content = lots of $$$ and success... simple formula.

 

[Ed30]

generic domains that are with a ppc (parked) are really underutilized... earnings are minimal...there is virtually no growth and the whole experience of a visitor is pretty crappy.

lets take the domain recipes.com for example, which gets a lot of type-ins... but imagine if it had real content....lots of it....... tons!! the traffic would grow exponentially. people would be coming back to it over and over again.... they will tell their friends... oh yea, and this things called "bots" of the likes of google and yahoo will pick up the content too and with the proper search engine optimization this domain is bound to make it to the top. so from a few hundred uniques to a few thousand to hundreds of thousands is possible and that is why somebody who is serious about doing business on the net and wants the ultimate name in that certain niche will pay up.... millions if that is what it takes.

take chris chena for example..... he is all about development and he understands that a good domain + good content = lots of $$$ and success... simple formula.

I totally agree. Ppc should be a stepping stone to development, otherwise you are selling yourself very very short. Especially as traffic for one domain can vary quite drastically depending which ppc provider you opt for - it makes you wonder sometimes how your traffic is being manipulated - development is all about control over your asset(s) and expanding your business.
eg consumptionjunction.com - name alone undeveloped on ppc = no visitors = no revenue. Developed = millions of visitors = huge revenues.

 

[sasquatch]

generic domains that are with a ppc (parked) are really underutilized... earnings are minimal...there is virtually no growth and the whole experience of a visitor is pretty crappy.

lets take the domain recipes.com for example, which gets a lot of type-ins... but imagine if it had real content....lots of it....... tons!! the traffic would grow exponentially. people would be coming back to it over and over again.... they will tell their friends... oh yea, and this things called "bots" of the likes of google and yahoo will pick up the content too and with the proper search engine optimization this domain is bound to make it to the top. so from a few hundred uniques to a few thousand to hundreds of thousands is possible and that is why somebody who is serious about doing business on the net and wants the ultimate name in that certain niche will pay up.... millions if that is what it takes.

take chris chena for example..... he is all about development and he understands that a good domain + good content = lots of $$$ and success... simple formula.

Precisely. But that is my point too, and that's exactly why late-arrivals have to pay inflated prices. Without paying those prices it would be difficult for those smaller and medium players to obtain more meaningful power by developing more recognizable online properties. And power is what everyone is after. And that is something that many others fail to understand. If the generics like Shampoo had 50k uniques per day than the picture would be different, but if they command only 100-500 uniques per day - most biggest companies (those that could pay million a pop if they had to) will not be keen in purchasing those (generally speaking) for those kinds of bucks because there's nothing there for them that is so incredibly important or that they can't built from scratch in no-time. In other words, difference between Procter and Gamble new shampoo site "qyqiyquyqw.com" and shampoo.com is only in that they are behind in those 100-500 daily uniques, or some 5-10k per year at the very beginning. And for them that is peanuts because the difference of having 0 or 100 or 500 uniques per day or extra 10k a years is minimal in shorter term (traffic wise) and longer term (finance wise). They might as well start from 0 and build a brand which they could tradedmark and protect in perpetuity and expand in many different directions. So why would they pay you 500k or 1M and get that meager audience after which they would still have to build the site and promote it etc., when they could use any freaking name and brand it from scratch and do the same like they could with a generic name (see one of my previous posts above for "brand name" advantages).

So yes the generics are important, especially for smaller players for whom generics represent the only distinction between global power/prestige and virtual anonymity. Let's also not forget the vanity factor of owning a piece of global infrastrature which speaks to those with sizable egos and bank accounts, but not much else.

And finally, generic namesare also important for domainers (including me) because without generic names and terms there wouldn't be domainers as we know; but they/we are not that important, let alone essential for commerce and ecommerce in early 21st century, because that commerce rests largely on the shoulders of brand names and terms.

Don't get me wrong I too love quality generic names (otherwise what else would be there for domainers?) but to think that generic names run the "Internet", let alone commerce - would be a bit preposterous to say the least.

 

[Ed30]

Don't forget also that typein traffic is the most profitable and targeted type of traffic that you can get. That doesn't take anything away from the developing obscure domains model - but it is an important factor nonetheless.

 

[mike031]

having a generic or really short, brandable or cool domain is an advantage... big, small..... not at all? well, it all depends... many factors come in to play. each one is unique and is one of a kind and the industry it deals within is different also.

on the internet, one thing is for sure... and that is content is king, give the visitors what they want/looking for and you will see lots of money and will become very successful... with time.

if you know what you are doing, have a large budget and focus on building e-businesses and portals then why not go with a generic domain such as creditcards.com or webdesign.com (even if they are worth a mil or two) if you are in it for the long run, and as i said if you are serious about it...... there is a lot of exciting stuff going on right now and the internet is only getting better by the day..many more awesome businesses to be launched...i feel that you will accomplish more.... take shopping.com for an example -- owned by ebay... or rent.com which is also owned by them. this two properties are leaders or at the very top of their industries.... there is no advertising done offline but the domain helps their business a lot and in many ways.

 

[Theo]

No I don't believe in Easter Bunny (though I used to at one point) but I believe in DnJournal.com :-D

And how much do targeted 50k daily uniques go for these days anyway?

Did you get to see the traffic yourself?

 

[sasquatch]

Did you get to see the traffic yourself?

No, but I bet the buyer did.

I saw Ovt. numbers, Google search results, PR (7) and inboud links (it has more links than DnForum).

 

[fabian05]

Rick,

Good point(s) .. accurate number is way above your speculation tho ;-)

You and Chaiki seem to forget the group of people that never talks/posts
and simply operates quietly. I know of a handful of people that have over 10000+, all nicely split in units of 500-1000 per offshore company ;-)

->

 

[Theo]

What's that song by Van Halen?

Panama. :-D

 

[Chaiki]

No, but I bet the buyer did.

I saw Ovt. numbers, Google search results, PR (7) and inboud links (it has more links than DnForum).

I have had one more interesting thought on this issue Sasquatch so will revive this thread. Think about the following carefully:

Say name A) whatismyip.com gets 50,000 visits per day. And name B) Shampoo.com gets 500 visits per day (1 percent of whatismyip.com).

The visits to Shampoo.com are fully monetizeable. Every visitor can be shown relevent advertising and those visitors' sole purpose (at that moment) is to click-through to that advertising or to type-out to another site. Let's say out of 500 visits, the name draws 300 bidded clicks based on relevance and targeting (those visitors aren't coming for anything else).

What percent of the 50,000 people visiting whatismyip.com are both performing a search "and" clicking on a bidded keyword advertisment on the Google links offered "after" figuring out what their ip is?

Given average industry wide banner impression conversions on content sites, I am willing to bet that whatismyip.com gets 3.5 - 5% of its 50,000 visitors a day to do ANYTHING but check their IP address. So optimistically, 5% of 50,000 is 2500 searches at the search box. Then (very important here) bear in mind that most people performing a search-box search, coming from a free content site like whatismyip.com are looking for unbidded searches, unbidded content or misspellings of things (which are also unbidded). I think it is safe to bet that 10% of the 2500 raw searches will result in a "bidded click" to an advertisers site.

Now for those of you who have read this far and who are trying to work back the numbers to enhance my initial raw number to get a favorable result to refute this, coinsider:

The guys who bought whatismyip.com have to work their guts out to keep people happy to sustain this model. If Google comes out tomorrow with ip.google.com (shorter by one character than whatismyip.com, including the dot) then whatismyip.com will quickly start running into a mathematical problem.

Are you starting to understand why i STILL pick shampoo.com?

While whatismyip.com has been busy putting it's finger in the dyke trying to stave off the google onslaught, I as the hypothetical owner of shampoo.com have been enjoying my third martini at lunch and deciding what generic domain to buy next. Do not even get me STARTED on the tactical advantage you loose by allowing someone to buy type-in names and move on, against your inaction. While the well meaning developer keeps spinning away at that same whatismyip.com site trying to retain existing traffic against competitors trying to bleed them (like the seige of a fort), the type-in buyer keeps tapping the black gold of lowest common denominator type-in traffic... and becomes much BIGGER each year, and very rich in the process.

The key with generic names has always been to buy, setup, monetize and move to the next name.. or wash rinse and repeat (pardon the pun)

 

[mole]

I'm glad you guys discussed about DOMAINS, and not some freaky .COM cult trip. Kudos for the nice paree, especial Sasfoot.

 

[Theo]

mole, going back now to sacrifice some .com to Baal :-D

 

[sasquatch]

Shampoo.com gets 500 visits per day

It more likely gets 100 visits per day, rather than 500, but it doesn't really matter.

Are you starting to understand why i STILL pick shampoo.com?

No I don't.

So let me repeat myself:

February 2005:
WhatIsMyIp.com sold for 386+k

---

July 2005:
Lunch.com sold for 100k
2976 ovt.

August 2005:
Uruguay.com sold for 175k
1285 ovt.

September 2005:
Lofts.com sold for 100k
378 ovt.

Total ovt. 4,829 (vs. 239 for Shampoo-dot-com)
Total paid: 375k

Hence, with the proceeds from the sale of WhatIsMyIp.com one could have bought, among other things, those three fine virtual properties above (and have some cash to spare for an all-indulging trip to Vegas).

So how can you still claim that you would rather have/had Shampoo-dot-com is beyond me.

But it really doesn't matter.

We're all different.

Some like blondes, some like brunettes.

Personally, I like the "rounded" ones :-D

 

[Theo]

You seem to focus on an alleged sale of the What is my IP domain - which personally, I doubt. No matter how much traffic it's getting, with 2 Google ads on that page there is no way in hell one would fork out $350k+ to place 2 lame Google ads in order to generate revenue - there is no ROI until 150 years from now.

Enough said - generic names still rule.