12K$ web design proposal - is it Reasonable?

[typist]

any feedback highly appreciated! I just received the following proposal

[edited]

enough feedback received - thanks everyone!

 

[smashfactory]

thats crazy in my opinion-

 

[typist]

why?

 

[smashfactory]

for a handbag site? just, selling handbags?
(just want to make sure before i answer)

 

[typist]

Yes, the corporate website - but no e-commerce included here.

 

[smashfactory]

your not even selling bags there- no shopping cart, ecommerce, etc.....

look, i know designers charge what they charge- but to be honest with you, i have been designing for years, and have done single page sites to full networks- all my own stuff- some hired stuff- and most designers really make it sound sooooooooooooooooo much more technical than it really is. its one of those "inflated" jobs. now, i am gonna get rocks thrown at me, but i just think the up-pricing for design work is just crazy ;-(

lordy, as i look this over- some of these things, literally take just a few minutes to set up- man, what people get away with charging ;-( shop around- you can do much better- i'm telling ya, you CAN do alot better

 

[labrocca]

IMHO it looks reasonable. That's a great well laid out proposal. Not everyone runs hack operations. If they have references that are good or a solid looking portfolio I think it's reasonable. They ask 1/3 upfront which imho again is reasonable.

This is also MORE than just a design. It's full coding of a CMS as well. Design is estimated at $2500 which if they do good work is reasonable.

Handbad manufacturers make a TON of money....how much would you charge a multi million dollar company to do their entire corporate site from scratch? $500...lol please!

lordy, as i look this over- some of these things, literally take just a few minutes to set up- man, what people get away with charging ;-( shop around- you can do much better- i'm telling ya, you CAN do alot better

And when they find some hack designer that copies some other layout or doesn't deliver on time then what? They start from scratch and take the loss...Some companies prefer quality and security over price.

 

[smashfactory]

anybody can write a proposal just chock full of big words- usually meant to impress the poor unsuspecting client who came to them in the first place, generally not knowing too much about design. people who charge a "normal" person one thing, and a multi-million dollar companies another- for the SAME work are the hack jobbers- what a lack of ethics there. many corp sites have little to them- several html pages, maybe a fancy whoop-de-doo flash picture on the front- they are usually informational text based sites- even with a backend 12 grand is nuts.
and its stupid to think just because someone charges alot, they are more trustworthy- not on this planet-
what do they charge to set up a 15 minute newsletter script- $800.00????
there is cheap, there is nuts, and there is great work from some great designers who do not charge you an arm and a leg- and an eye and your ear- all i am saying is shop around, you can do better.

 

[typist]

And when they find some hack designer that copies some other layout or doesn't deliver on time then what? They start from scratch and take the loss...Some companies prefer quality and security over price.

Thank you both for the feedback.

labrocca, you accurately descibed what already happened here, we learned this the hard way, which is why we are looking at a a seemingly more expensive proposal.

The proposal here has obviously been derived from a template, and it may contain some snake oil (such as the search engine submission - the domain has been indexed for years...), but you are right, we're looking for security, rather than bargain pricing.

smashfactory, my background is in enterprise IT sales... at hp, I sold for double-digit million $ amounts yearly.

I always tried to avoid body leasing, but if I had to charge daily rates for a consultant, no matter how inexperienced, I never charged less than 2400$ a day + expenses...

Most clients chose me/hp because they wanted security, they wanted to be sure we were a financially sound company which can and will back up claims and promises with money if anything goes wrong, and we'd deliver as promised and on time no matter what...

"lone hackers" can potentially get hit by all kinds of (personal) problems, even though they may deliver excellent work 99% of the time.

I definitely agree with you that this security/peace of mind comes at a very steep price if you look at actual cost though.

 

[smashfactory]

so, the proposal was a template, may contain some snake oil, and this gives you security....
if you got burned in the past, all i am saying is, a 12 grand price tag just means you can also get burned, just for alot more of your money. good luck, i hope they give some helluva site

 

[typist]

so, the proposal was a template, may contain some snake oil, and this gives you security....
if you got burned in the past, all i am saying is, a 12 grand price tag just means you can also get burned, just for alot more of your money. good luck, i hope they give some helluva site

lol

I share your hope... I'm not yet fully convinced though, but I'll work hard to check out references.

PS Every sales rep/sales enginer worth his/her payckeck will use templates as long as they make sense. If you don't, you're wasting time and money imho...

PPS love the design of http://www.smashfactory.com - clean and impressive!

 

[Steen]

Well done proposal, price does not seem over the top for retail at all.

Being in the business you are in I am sure if you were willing to manage the various people required to complete the project or hire a project manager plus perhaps use some pre-made tools (PHP/ASP scripts) you could get it done for 1/4 the price.

For me it would come down to:
1) How much time you yourself have to devote to this project
2) How superior (if any) this firm's services are compared to the lower cost alternatives.

It would also of course depend on your plans for this new brand of yours. If you are planning six or seven figure per year sales then you may wish to hire a reputable company without as much concern as startup costs.

 

[Bill Roy]

Typist,

One thing strikes me as odd here, if you are questioning the value of a $12k submission why did you not put the work out to tender? At this kind of price your company could have got anything between 2 - 20 tenders for the work, and this would have been the way to go about it.

We as members of this forum can only now give an impression on our own experiences, and these do not match your comany's experiences. I personally feel this is a hefty amount for the work actually proposed, especially as it seems to be only a corporate 'shop-front' on the net.

My reaction would be even now to put it out to tender, you may even get some lone operater develop and submit a near complete proposed site that only needs tinkering with at the edges (and then go for this one - such a designer would have already put his/her money and time where their mouth is).

Just my 2 cents. But in future please consider putting such work out to tender, it is the only sensible thing to do.

Good luck.

Billbo

 

[typist]

billbo, my situation is as follows:

I run the only official "brand name" online shop selling these handbags, paying license fees for the brand and exclusivity.

The handbag designer / company founder isn't really too much into IT and web stuff, she saw my online shop, and realised she wanted to revamp her corporate site.

Although I work closely with her, I didn't want to project manage her project as I prefer to invest in projects I can fully control myself, so I recommended to find some talented coders in a competitive location, and get her inhouse it and marketing team to project manage them closely. That apparently didn't work. Several months and some money disappeared.

She may be demanding, and not the easiest person to work with, and maybe "competitive" coders can't really relate to her ideas about glamour and high fashion, I don't know exactly what happened.

But now timing is an issue, and as far as I understand someone recommended this company, which is why there was no tender...

Now I was asked for advice again.

 

[Bill Roy]

Typist,

Sorry for misunderstanding the situation.

Haven't we all been there! People ask advice, take part of it and then expect 'you' to sort it out when things aren't going as they hoped/expected. In this situation I would suggest she goes with it, the quote that is!

If you get too involved now my guess is that if everything works out OK she will pat herself on the back, if things don't go OK then she will look to you as someone too blame! I just hope things work out for her (and you).

As I said before, good luck.

Billbo

 

[typist]

As I said before, good luck.

Billbo

thanks

I also hope things work out.


[...but I don't mind too much if there are some - but not too many - difficulties, that way she will remain convinced she made a good choice letting me run the whole e-commerce operation rather than doing it inhouse... ]

 

[dolansco]

$12k well spent , is better than $6k badly spent IMO .... Typist has seen their portfolio ..... he can judge from there


Edit-----

Do sell man-bags ?

 

[britishbulldog]

Ask smashfactory for a quote he seems to know what his talking about,i put a site to tender chose a company whos language is NOT native English and man what a nightmare,they all can write aqnd understand basic English but thats as far as it goes,i am now in the process of building them a sitemap and starting from scratch ! if it goes pair shaped im gonna ask smashfactory for a price !

 

[smashfactory]

Ask smashfactory for a quote he seems to know what his talking about,

i do know what i am talking about the guy just asked for some opinions, and i gave mine- all i was, and am still, trying to say was- he could get the same quality, but for less cash out of pocket- but it takes time an effort to shop around and research, and if he doesnt have that, and feels comfortable with them- then so be it. not everyone upcharges their design work- some aspects take a few minutes to implement, and design firms charge a ton to do it.
that was all i am sure he will get a very nice site.
as far as your quote to the non-english guy... i am sure i was a nightmare- you had a very specific situation. and i didn't use templates because of that- specific people have different needs and understandings. well worth my time to do a custom quote based on the person i was dealing with- and again, it wasn't all that time consuming to do.

again- good luck, i am sure she will and up with a real nice site.

 

[myst woman]

That was wayyyy too much money.