478.com SOLD for $6,300

[bigbobm]

Hi,

Since IDNs have been in place, I have seen the demand for numbers JUMP. Most of that increase in demand is from CHINA.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Hi,

Since IDNs have been in place, I have seen the demand for numbers JUMP. Most of that increase in demand is from CHINA.

There is growing demand for domains in general in China. This is actually quite a modest sum by all accounts. Chinese IDN have already been fetching more than this and due to late roll out of IE7, they are still not yet a viable means of navigating the Internet. The impact of IDN has not yet even begun to be felt.

 

[sevent]

The fact that 4 depresses the price of numeric domains shows that much of the demand is from China. 4 is unlucky to the Chinese just as 8 is auspicious.

Demand of numeric domains from China is likely to tail off as IDN become more current, as numbers have been a way of avoiding the less familiar Latin alphabet.

You obviously have some knowledge but you’re constant framing of everything in terms of how much IDN’s will take over the world, without providing any factual evidence, is getting old.

I’ve probably spent more on a single IDN than all but a few hundred people on this planet, so I can see their *potential*. But you need to face facts:

• Baseline reseller prices for NNN.com names are up 3x in just a year.
• The supposedly "bad" domain this thread is about, 478.com, was purchased for $6,300. Both the buyer and at least one other bidder are from this board. This, plus the lack of ANY NNN.com names for sale for under $6,000, shows that either a) Names starting with 4 aren’t as bad as you think or b) The effect of the Chinese market doesn’t matter as much as you think or c) the price of other NNN.com’s is really much higher, indicating an EXTREMELY strong and growing market for numeric domains.
• Not a single Top 500 Alexa website is an IDN (14 are numeric). The vast majority of IDN's are undeveloped.
• Full market penetration of IE7 or Firefox will take *years*, and that still doesn't solve the email problem.

At this point you need to stop making broad assertions and ignoring arguments against your position. You need to either provide *hard factual evidence* of why we are wrong AND show how IDN's are having a negative effect on Latin and numeric domains, or you need to be quiet.

 

[Rubber Duck]

I only said it was likely to tail off as IDN become more current. That seems reasonable as CNNIC the Chinese Registrar now derives most of its revenues from IDN is and is pushing them very hard as is the Chinese Media. You should not, however, expect too much in the way of content until there is widespread browser support. It would serve no purpose.

I have no knowledge of your IDN acquisitions, which is perhaps a little surprising but congratulations, I hope you got something really good. In any event it won't be like flushing dollars down the toilet on dot mobi.

On the numbers issue it would seem as usual certain vested interests need the IDN community to shut up so they can push their own agendas.

 

[touchring]

You obviously have some knowledge but you’re constant framing of everything in terms of how much IDN’s will take over the world, without providing any factual evidence, is getting old.

I’ve probably spent more on a single IDN than all but a few hundred people on this planet, so I can see their *potential*. But you need to face facts:

• Baseline reseller prices for NNN.com names are up 3x in just a year.
• The supposedly "bad" domain this thread is about, 478.com, was purchased for $6,300. Both the buyer and at least one other bidder are from this board. This, plus the lack of ANY NNN.com names for sale for under $6,000, shows that either a) Names starting with 4 aren’t as bad as you think or b) The effect of the Chinese market doesn’t matter as much as you think or c) the price of other NNN.com’s is really much higher, indicating an EXTREMELY strong and growing market for numeric domains.
• Not a single Top 500 Alexa website is an IDN (14 are numeric). The vast majority of IDN's are undeveloped.
• Full market penetration of IE7 or Firefox will take *years*, and that still doesn't solve the email problem.

At this point you need to stop making broad assertions and ignoring arguments against your position. You need to either provide *hard factual evidence* of why we are wrong AND show how IDN's are having a negative effect on Latin and numeric domains, or you need to be quiet.

I think there is a big misunderstanding behind number domains. That number domains have appreciated 3x in just one year only indicates the rapid increase in purchasing power of the Chinese web entities.

With the absense of Chinese domains, or IDNs as what we call them here, Pinyin initials followed by numbers are the preferred form of URL.

However, with full market penetration of IE7 or Firefox happen (>95%), i see that within 3-4 years from now, people will no longer need to use number domains. I can even foresee, many "number websites" rebranding as IDNs. They will still continue to use their number domains, but as shortcuts - for fast entry.

Anyone with big investment in number domains should carefully consider this scenario, and not just blindly invest without understanding the demand behind it.

 

[sevent]

I think there is a big misunderstanding behind number domains. That number domains have appreciated 3x in just one year only indicates the rapid increase in purchasing power of the Chinese web entities.

With the absense of Chinese domains, or IDNs as what we call them here, Pinyin initials followed by numbers are the preferred form of URL.

However, with full market penetration of IE7 or Firefox happen (>95%), i see that within 3-4 years from now, people will no longer need to use number domains. I can even foresee, many "number websites" rebranding as IDNs. They will still continue to use their number domains, but as shortcuts - for fast entry.

Anyone with big investment in number domains should carefully consider this scenario, and not just blindly invest without understanding the demand behind it.

Again you have to come back to *evidence* and *facts* instead of speculation.

Will some numeric sites rebrand as IDN in 3-4 years? Maybe, but so far there is 0 evidence they will, and even if that does happen, there is 0 evidence that this will hurt NNN values in China. There is also 0 evidence that even if all that happens it will hurt the *global* market for numeric domains.

Domain investors are always looking at the future. If Chinese buyers were the reason prices went up 3x this past year, and if IDN's were going to hurt numerics, then NNN prices wouldn't have gone up so much. So one of the assumptions MUST be wrong.

 

[touchring]

Again you have to come back to *evidence* and *facts* instead of speculation.

Will some numeric sites rebrand as IDN in 3-4 years? Maybe, but so far there is 0 evidence they will, and even if that does happen, there is 0 evidence that this will hurt NNN values in China. There is also 0 evidence that even if all that happens it will hurt the *global* market for numeric domains.

Domain investors are always looking at the future. If Chinese buyers were the reason prices went up 3x this past year, and if IDN's were going to hurt numerics, then NNN prices wouldn't have gone up so much. So one of the assumptions MUST be wrong.

Evidence? Well, gut feel as someone from a chinese background with business interests in China since the late 90s.

There's a difference between speculator demand and "real" end user demand. If you look at the $xx,xxx and $xxx,xxx record prices for .mobi, you would know what i mean.

Domains are like "futures", prices are dictated by what speculators expect to happen in the future rather what end users are willing to pay in the present. Numeric domains are highly desired by end users in China because numbers are easier to remember than english word domains (the fundamentals), and speculators know that, and they also know that Chinese corps are earning big money selling to American consumers.

IDNs, OTOH, is a thing of the future, end users will start using IDNs when they discover that most browsers in the market can already support them. Of course, by the time that happens, you could only get the likes of (i use .mobi as example, pls pardon me if i used your name. :lol: ) -

venturer.mobi
wanton.mobi
microage.mobi
PokerChampion.mobi
MobileParts.mobi
dugg.mobi
PINCode.mobi
Matedate.mobi
StandBy.mobi
TheStates.mobi


Disclaimer - I'm not saying numerics have no future, but rather, it's future upside will be challenged by the availability of Chinese domains, and this factor should be seriously considered.

 

[DaveZilla]

How much future can Numerics really have? There are only about 1100 NNN.com's. At 6k (high estimate) each you have a maximum $6,600,000.00 worth of inventory shared by the whole world.

Maybe I'm just bad at math, but it seems to me that compared to the volume of alphabetic domains, Numeric's are a quaint side market.

Sevent, in your list of numeric types don't forget times. As in 1201.mobi
A minute past midnight

 

[sevent]

How much future can Numerics really have? There are only about 1100 NNN.com's. At 6k (high estimate) each you have a maximum $6,600,000.00 worth of inventory shared by the whole world.

Maybe I'm just bad at math, but it seems to me that compared to the volume of alphabetic domains, Numeric's are a quaint side market.

Sevent, in your list of numeric types don't forget times. As in 1201.mobi
A minute past midnight

Hi DaveZilla,

There are 1000 NNN's, starting at 000 and going up to 999. The market for NNN's is of course limited, but that's the point. I'm not sure how long you have been into domains, but in general short, easy to remember domains (NNN.com, NN.com, LL.com, LLL.com, etc.) have active, liquid markets and are highly desirable and worth a lot of money. Does that make them "quaint" markets?

If you want to value a segment of the domain market, ask yourself this: what evidence is there that end users will chose these domains to build sites on and make lots of money? Will people do that with domains like 1201.mobi? Maybe.... but then again maybe not. And with so many numeric .mobis in the hands of speculators (I own 1 myself), who is going to build the sites and invest the money and create the brands which make NNNN.mobi valuable?

And even if in 5 years visitors start to trickle in to .mobi domains, how many of those people will really be typing in .com?

 

[DaveZilla]

Sevent,

Oops, I was counting 11.com and 011.com ...

I see what you mean though I grabbed 1201.mobi mostly because it had a meaning I could associate with a phrase. I let the NNN.mobi's slip by because I didnt think I could find anything memorable. Probably a mistake.

Liquidity counts for alot.

I'm not looking for a quick sale, but to develop sites I have. Its great to flip a domain for alot of money, but if that domain is so valuable to the people who are fighting a bidding war over it, its potential to make profit must be much higher. Its like if someone sold sex.com 5 years ago for a million. Wouldn't they kick themselves now for not trying to develop it?

I've seen it asked if someone can make a living on PPC. We all know its possible. However, can someone really make a living buying and selling desireable domains?

 

[touchring]

And even if in 5 years visitors start to trickle in to .mobi domains, how many of those people will really be typing in .com?

Has traffic started trickling in for .info and .biz after 5 years?

When we talk about exotic extensions like .info, .mobi, i think no one here assumes there will be natural type-in traffic. So PPC can't be the basis for valuation.

 

[mattbodis]

Just to give a small update here.

478.com sold @ 7.5k. It was a nice run! Should be on dnjournal soon.

 

[simon]

Just to give a small update here.

478.com sold @ 7.5k. It was a nice run! Should be on dnjournal soon.

nice quick money there Matt.

 

[sevent]

Just to give a small update here.

478.com sold @ 7.5k. It was a nice run! Should be on dnjournal soon.

Congratulations!

 

[Ian]

Congrats on the sale!

 

[VirtualT]

Has traffic started trickling in for .info and .biz after 5 years?

Well I hold 2% of the NNN.biz registry and only about 4 names get any reasonable traffic worth pointing to PPC.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Well I hold 2% of the NNN.biz registry and only about 4 names get any reasonable traffic worth pointing to PPC.

Even with no roll out of IE7 in any of the languages that matter, IDN are already doing better than that. (IE6 does not support IDN)

 

[droplister]

why has this become an idn thread? nnn.com sold, cool. done. move on.

 

[3ammary]

congratulations to seller & buyer

 

[VirtualT]

congratulations to seller & buyer

well congrats to the buyer anyways, Im not sure the seller would have been super happy at the close price :undecided: