And for the IDN doubting Thomases.

[Rubber Duck]

You assume that you know the most as you hold the most IDN registrations. Sorry buddy alot of people have been following up on the development for at least a year or two.

I also have connections to higher ups at a few registrars.

A year or two. As long as that?

Well next time you dine will Bill, just ask him straight out?

 

[DNWizardX9]

Look buddy, I'm going back to regging now. You can be the king of the playground.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Look buddy, I'm going back to regging now. You can be the king of the playground.

Well, I stopped regging a while back. There isn't anything else I need.

 

[Olney]

These are just some of the misunderstandings that kept nonNatives away from IDNs in the first place.
There is not too many options.
For Japan the strongest options will be IDN.jp & IDN.com
You can't talk about hiragana/katakana etc. because there is usually 1 correct way to write something.
There is about a years worth of research & info on IDNs.
People can make an educated choice about investing or not.
I speak, read & write Japanese & have never heard a Japanese person complain about writing anything on a keyboard is too hard.
This is only said by nonJapanese who can't write Japanese.
Including myself, I know plenty of nonJapanese who write, email etc in Japanese.

yes.. but there are just too many combo for IDN..

IDN.com, IDN.localcountrycode, English.localcountrycodes, IDN(romanji/haragana/katakana).IDN, IDN.IDN, etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.etc. etc. etc.

When people have more options.... I don't think they will pay big $$$$ for IDN domain names. There is no Must have IDN domains as people have alternative options. People will still pay for traffic highly traffic IDN names but in terms of "domain value" it would be trivial

 

[Domagon]

I have never chosen a language tag for my names... You don't have ppl choosing Spanish for spanish domains do you? A native can tell what language they're typing in.

I don't think they have any relevance.

The mere concept of language tags creates a framework for programmers of software, such as browsers, dns resolvers, etc to determine how to treat an IDN; can be more confident that a particular IDN will not contain mixed character sets...

Even if the language tag isn't explicited recorded / available to the software (browser, resolver, etc), one can bet that many programs will attempt to determine the character set from the characters / context / environment, etc.

In a nutshell, the combinations of possible IDNs are already limited via various mechanisms, such as separate character sets / language tags, variant tables, IDL packages, TLD aliasing, etc.

Ron

 

[DNWizardX9]

The mere concept of language tags creates a framework for programmers of software, such as browsers, dns resolvers, etc to determine how to treat an IDN; can be more confident that a particular IDN will not contain mixed character sets...

Even if the language tag isn't explicited recorded / available to the software (browser, resolver, etc), one can bet that many programs will attempt to determine the character set from the characters / context / environment, etc.

In a nutshell, the combinations of possible IDNs are already limited via various mechanisms, such as separate character sets / language tags, variant tables, IDL packages, TLD aliasing, etc.

Ron

Japanese IDN's sometimes have mixed character sets that include ascii.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Japanese IDN's sometimes have mixed character sets that include ascii.

Yes, and I understand that there are no issues with registering Mixed Script Latin Japanese. There seem to be problems with Latin Thai when there shouldn't be. Cyrillic Latin mixes are of course not permitted as these present good opportunities for phishing.

 

[Domagon]

What's permitted to be registered and what will work in the "real world" are two different things ... many browsers / resolvers will likely flag / filter IDNs that are comprised of mixed character sets in many instances thereby reducing the value of such domains.

Ron

 

[brian1234]

RD is the king of IDN, and when his
domains take off he will become king
of the world... and all of you who
laugh at him now will be his underlings!!

 

[DNWizardX9]

What's permitted to be registered and what will work in the "real world" are two different things ... many browsers / resolvers will likely flag / filter IDNs that are comprised of mixed character sets in many instances thereby reducing the value of such domains.

Ron

so all the tech words like "CD" and "DVD" will have no value in Japan? Think again....... all this has been mixed into Japanese.

I'm usng IE 7 beta 3 and I am not getting any such message. I think the only problem is when you have cryllic mixed with ascii. Please do some research before making such baseless statements.

 

[Domagon]

IE 7 is still in beta ... and I'll bet that once there's a rash of phishing via IDNs (or more likely is merely perceived as being done using them), IE 7's default IDN security will be tightened up to flag more mixed-set domains.

And if even various mixed set IDNs work fine in IE 7, that's no guarantee* they will when it comes to resolvers in other web browsers and other applications both local and remote, such for email and related utilities like spam filters.

* Resolution for IDNs unlike traditional domains is not absolute, in large part because the translation into punycode is resolver dependent relying on constantly changing rules / interpretations.

Ron

 

[Rubber Duck]

IE 7 is still in beta ... and I'll bet that once there's a rash of phishing via IDNs (or more likely is merely perceived as being done using them), IE 7's default IDN security will be tightened up to flag more mixed-set domains. This is one of the reasons the folk and IDNFs are focusing on SERP rankings. Click through can be made from search on the IE 6 Browser. If you can get SERP you can get IDN traffic now!

And if even various mixed set IDNs work fine in IE 7, that's no guarantee* they will when it comes to resolvers in other web browsers and other applications both local and remote, such for email and related utilities like spam filters.

* Resolution for IDNs unlike traditional domains is not absolute, in large part because the translation into punycode is resolver dependent relying on constantly changing rules / interpretations.

Ron

I think you will find that IE 7 approach is base more on producing a blacklist of know phishing sites rather than discriminating against domains because of the scripts that they use.

Email like all IDN queries is sent as ASCII. Punycode is precisely that an encodement of Unicode into ASCII. The clever stuff is done by your Email Client if you have one that supports IDN. If you use the punycode you can actually access all IDN sites, and Email all IDN web address without the need for Vista. You can do that on IE 6 and Outlook Express.

The Unicode Code tables are not absolute and fixed like ASCII. From day one ASCII has a prescribed number of characters that has been fixed ever since. Unicode by contrast is ever expanding incorporating more scripts and more characters from the scripts that are used in certain languages. There is a limited amount of editing that goes on periodically to correct errors or implement rulings made by the linguists. This does not, however, mean that vast majority of the library is in anyway dodgy. High value generics that have been registered for several years do not resolve differently on a week to week basis. Indeed their resolution is as constant as that of ASCII.

 

[DNWizardX9]

Theres a difference between mixing cryllic and ascii than japanese with ascii........

The only one who will fall for a phishing site with mixed japanese and ascii is an idiot. They can obviously spot the difference. I would class those ppl with those that are subject to the nigerian scams. The world would be better without them. (dumb people falling for the tricks)

 

[Olney]

You guys can use my domain as an example
pcゲー�*.jp

Sorry you have to use the punycode the forum keeps trying to replace characters necessary for some Japanese leters to show.

xn--pc-vh4axh5e.jp

pcGame(s).jp

one of the ways to write pc Games in Japanese.
Mixed script.

 

[DNWizardX9]

oh yea thanks to the strong belief mixed characters can't be mixed I picked up alot of gems.

Thanks domainers ;-)

 

[Olney]

Japanese & English will work fine it's already being written in Japanese press releases.
What people need are facts, not negative guesses.

http://xn--wgv71a119e.jp/access/ie7_ascii-idn.html

This is a real easy to understand post on Japan Registries site for Japanese IDNs.
Instead of punycode IE7 will be able to use ASCII & Japanese together & it will be viewable in Japanese. This was requested by feedback from people.

It just makes no sense for people to keep thinking the IDN enabled technology is going to take steps backward. International users are trying to go forward with domains that cater to them. Mixed scripts for latin based IDNs present a problem. Other languages it might not. Japanese there's no problem.

 

[wrdekle]

Theres a difference between mixing cryllic and ascii than japanese with ascii........

QUOTE]

This is absolutely correct - phishing danger is very real for the English speaking world and maybe some larger European languages but not so much in Asia. Japanese language mixed scripts present no phishing danger to English speaking internet users. And it isn't like the rest of the world really worries much about phishing. Japan had about 15 phishing incidents last year, maybe double that this year. While in the US, there are about 15 phishing schemes uncovered every hour!
Microsoft has already reviewed its policy on mixed scripts in IDN and has a list of allowed mixed scripts. For Japanese katakana/hiragana/kanji and romaji are all allowed to mix. MS isn't going to restrict Japanese IDN resolution in Japan simply because the US has phishing problems. They appear to be restricting resolution of Japanese IDNs into Unicode for IE7 browsers where Japanese is not already an approved script.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, the phishing issue has always been primarily a US problem to date, and largely unassociated with IDN, although the introduction of IDN initially presented a new range of possibilities.

Microsoft have been very cautious on this issue, and whilst undoubtedly reducing the opportunities of fraud in the US to a limited degree, by their undue delays in introducting and IDN supported browser, they have undoubtedly hampered economic development in Asia, which will in turn undoubtedly caused extensive unnecessary misery and even death. The decisions taken amount to Commercial Genocide and underline more even than the new set of very dubious registry contracts, why the US should very definitely not be in control of the Internet.

 

[DNWizardX9]

You want the U.N. to run the Internet and run it into the ground? They don't seem to be making peace overseas in the Middle East.

 

[Rubber Duck]

Maybe not, but they are proactively causing problems either!