legal Balance of payments issue from leading industry domainer/broker Kevin Leto

[razorblade]

I am not covering for him, I have never even met the guy.

-=DCG=-

Hey Adam,

I was not referring to you, but to those who may have formed loyalties through years of domaining and brokering

 

[jaydub]

I am just going by what I have read here and it seems to me Kevin's not hiding from anyone and is trying to work through a bad situation....and that sometimes takes a bit of time.

 

[KRL]

I am just going by what I have read here and it seems to me Kevin's not hiding from anyone and is trying to work through a bad situation....and that sometimes takes a bit of time.

Thank you! And you are right.

 

[mike031]

Unfortunate situation, lets hope it works out for all at the end

I remember back in 2004 and 2005... I was able to offer and gladly provide a few close friends and some family a 200% to 300% return within a few month's at most on their investment. They didn't understand domains, but they did understand that the return was a no-brainer and a once in a lifetime opportunity. On one particular day I remember I had a bunch of checks totaling 6 figures.... Some days I felt generous and I gave em 400% for example. No contracts or any other bs... Just a gentleman's agreement done with a handshake.

Ahh... The good ol' days of parking and a seemingly endless supply of traffic domains that could be had for under $100 a pop.

Now it's all about development in 2011 and moving forward. Gotta get down and dirty.... But the whole lesson to be learned is that you gotta do it yourself OR find somebody that knows what he is doing.

My 2c worth

 

[staffjam]

I've also had an interesting experience with Kevin. I pay him a fixed sum and he helps set up lots of deals for me (advertisers for my site.)
The amount was small - $750 - but this was just to cover initial expenses whilst the network was "set up" by Kevin: landing pages, sales letters, a whole host of goodies (He was also going to take 20% of deals brought in.)
NOTHING was setup. There were lots of promises but no action. In the end i was going to receive a refund but only $250 dribbled back in. Then Kevin quickly disappeared off the radar.

It will be amusing to see you refute this Kevin and i'm sure there will be plenty of other excuses. It's just a bit sickening to see other people being made promises by this chap and getting nothing in return.

This was a while back and the site is doing very well now - but when it was fresh out of the blocks i needed a little assistance - all i got was a lot of talk a lot of promises and nothing else.

 

[KRL]

Good post Mike! And right on!

 

[ShaunP]

Unfortunate situation, lets hope it works out for all at the end

I remember back in 2004 and 2005... I was able to offer and gladly provide a few close friends and some family a 200% to 300% return within a few month's at most on their investment. They didn't understand domains, but they did understand that the return was a no-brainer and a once in a lifetime opportunity. On one particular day I remember I had a bunch of checks totaling 6 figures.... Some days I felt generous and I gave em 400% for example. No contracts or any other bs... Just a gentleman's agreement done with a handshake.

Ahh... The good ol' days of parking and a seemingly endless supply of traffic domains that could be had for under $100 a pop.

Now it's all about development in 2011 and moving forward. Gotta get down and dirty.... But the whole lesson to be learned is that you gotta do it yourself OR find somebody that knows what he is doing.

My 2c worth

Great post Mike. I toally agree with " But the whole lesson to be learned is that you gotta do it yourself OR find somebody that knows what he is doing"... plus I might add .. if it's too good to be true...

Good post Mike! And right on!

I don't know if that was totally complementary to you Kevin.

 

[KRL]

I got 2 advertisers for your OP site StaffJam (James) and sent you $250. The first advertisers
materials for his ad were not good quality when I received them for the type of high quality your
site was. The 2nd advertisers was doing natural gas. His landers were done. But then we
got into an issue where if I recall you were expecting more advertisers then had responded and
you said to the effect let's just call it a day then. Prospecting for advertisers is a lot of work
and that was all I got you.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:48 PM ----------

Everyone, I'm working on a very significant domain closing so I'm replying as much as possible but
I can't stay on here day and night and its becoming time consuming.

I know some folks seem to be enjoying the bashing and that is fine, go for it, I'll stand my ground
and address every issue. I'm made a lot of people in this busines a lot of money and I have more
supporters than I can count. I've gotten phone calls and e-mails from friends who recognize all
the good work I've done over the past 14 years and think what's being done here has an agenda.

I work 7 days a week at this business and do lots of projects and brokering. Like I've acknowledged
some deals work some don't that is business and I do my best always. If something doesn't work
I find a positive way to remedy it. Sometimes its a quick response, sometimes when I'm overloaded
with brokering deals, and other projects it takes a lot of time. I get a ton of e-mails every day from buyers and
sellers from all over the world and time zone and sometimes I can get back to someone right away and sometimes
its days and sometimes the mails get backlogged and it takes even longer. I only do 4 hours of sleep a day just
to keep up with my projects, brokering, etc. So I go the extra mile as much as physically possible.

So feel free to gripe and bash. I will stand my ground, defend my good work, acknowledge mistakes and any deals
that didn't work out as expected, and that is all I can do. I'm not perfect. I've had good times over my 35 years of
entrepreneuring and I've had my share of hard times. That is what you deal with you are an entrepreneur. It's more
competitive than ever, especially with Internet businesses, so you have to innovate like crazy nonstop to stay ahead
of your competition. Sometimes you overload yourself, and I'll acknowledge I have more projects than most would dare
take on. But I love the thrill of creating an idea, nurturing it, growing it and making it successful so that keeps me going.
My ideas are generally well conceived and thought out and do well. A few don't. Just like brokering some domains sell
and many never do. You never know, but you keep on marketing and prospecting regardless. I strive to always give
110% to every client and person I do business with. Sometimes like in the case with James a business relationship starts
well and then flounders. But you do your best to keep things civil and work out issues. I hope that is being clearly
recognized in this thread.

Thank you to those that have called and e-mail me with kind words of support. Very much appreciated.

 

[staffjam]

Utter nonesense as i knew it would be. First of all you were going to set landing pages up, sales letter (For me) and many other things that i never got. The $250 you sent me was a refund after i never received any of the basic pages or services you promised.
As to what i supposedly said, "lets call it a day then." This is far from the truth - what i believe i said was, "you haven't delivered on anything you promised - give me my money back!"

Your reply - "i'll send it via paypal" - now maybe you pressed the wrong button and put a 2 instead of a 7, it can happen to the best of us. But accidents aside that still leaves you $500 short.

Is my maths wrong here? Have a made anything up or am i mistaken on anything? I don't think so!

 

[KRL]

Just recognize how much work is involved in prospecting for advertisers. And if I recall when I showed you the page
that would be used you said it wouldn't fit well with your site design or something to that effect.

 

[staffjam]

I'd like to clear something up Kevin - i have no agenda here - i chanced upon this thread and it just so happened i rembered our prior dealings. I'm not involved in a witch hunt or anything of the sort. I have very little to do with domaining nowadays and it's just bad/good luck that i saw this.

I think you may be right here about the page you put up (one) - and if we're being honest this really was a very poor page and merely the start of things.

I'm aware that some things don't work out in business - not everything can be a success and yes i know how hard it is selling advertising space, but when you have the right tools that job is made much easier.
I really don't have any problem with that or the fact that the ad sales didn't come off. My only gripe is with the promised refund - NOTHING ELSE.

 

[quadnames]

I have been dealing with Kevin for years and we have done multiple dealing together. Not only is he the most honest broker I have worked with, if he has an issue with anything he communicates fast and never blows smoke on any Subject. I am disappointed to see that any dispute can't be handled by phone instead of trying to destroy the gleaming reputation Kevin has built over the years by getting the job done.

I personally am sick to my stomach that you would try to detroy this guys reputation over a few dollars whether it was right or wrong. I do business with Kevin and to top it off, I don't use any other broker because I know I CAN TRUST HIM! Whoever started this thread should learn to be a professional. Kevin is the best broker I know period. I have been domaining since 1997 and own thousands of revenue domains. Do you think I would trust anyone? No, I trust Kevin becuase he is honest, communicates very well and above all, he is a professional and works his butt off for domain owners. The fact that is thread was started here is childish and unfairly tries to ruin a great guy and brokers rep.

I mean what the hell is wrong with you people that do this? Adults settle disputes through communication, not posting crap like this when you don't get your way. I stand behind Kevin and would trust him with any domain or venture I teamed with him on. As for the person who started the thread, perhaps this is not the industry for you if you can't talk thins out.

 

[staffjam]

quadnames - you're 100% right - I should have aired my gripe via e-mail. Can't think how i got sucked in.
I won't post anything further on this. - Kevin if you choose to mail me we can settle things in private.

 

[KRL]

quadnames - you're 100% right - I should have aired my gripe via e-mail. Can't think how i got sucked in.
I won't post anything further on this. - Kevin if you choose to mail me we can settle things in private.

Will do. No problem or hard feelings about airing gripes on here. This is the Internet and heated public discussions come with the terrority.
They provide a vibrant way to discover "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly" in people and things. I've gotten enough calls and e-mails from
supporters to keep positive plus I'm going to have incredibly good PR next week so I'm not going to let this cluster****ed thread break my spirit
in light of that.

Thank you James (staffjam)

 

[quadnames]

Keep the faith Kevin

 

[KRL]

Keep the faith Kevin

Definitely! I'm a fearless soul and have always had a fight to the death persevering spirit when it comes to defending
my work and reputation.

 

[razorblade]

I mean what the hell is wrong with you people that do this? Adults settle disputes through communication, not posting crap like this when you don't get your way.

This enough communication for you???????????

Issues in August


James Barclay August 12, 2010 at 7:38pm
Kev, I am being asked about the money from xxxxx. I do not have the $250 to lay out on the 18th, although I did lay out for the $500 name for xxxx.. Will you confirm a date with me for the very latest I can expect to get the monies. I would hate to look bad by being late on the payments with them......

Kevin Leto August 13, 2010 at 5:13am Report
My funds transfer should be hitting paypal today.

James Barclay August 15, 2010 at 12:03pm
Any news Kevin,

The 18th is only two days away. I need to have the money for the 18th. Please do not forget the money from the 8th aswell.

To be perfectly honest, I am feeling a little nervous (and let down) having to chase you with emails about payments owed.

James Barclay August 16, 2010

Issues in November

November 23, 2010 at 6:59am
Kevin - what day will you be able to send me the $750? ($50 already paid)

Kevin Leto November 24, 2010 at 8:41am Report
You're on the priorty list.

James Barclay November 30, 2010 at 5:47am
Please Kevin - whatever you do today, please make sure that you dont default on the payment plan. You have asked me for flexability and I have said no problem. But that does not extend to not getting paid by the end of the month. It is such a shame that I am having to beg for what was promised in a contractual agreement.

In the same way that I thanked you wholeheartedly for helping put some money in both our pockets, please be aware that I do not have the luxury of missing out on the payment plan. So far, I have sent xxx and xxx their money, but have received nothing myself. It is not fair. And if I am on the priority list - how does that work , if I am still not getting paid by the last day of the month?

I notice that you are still advertising for fixed income domains.... How do you think that makes me feel.??

I really hope that you make the right decision today.


Issues since January


James Barclay December 10, 2010 at 8:55pm
Please let me know a date when you can make the $800 payment this month .

Kevin - its been four months now that you have defaulted on payment due date, including a payment for this month aswell.

I am no longer prepared to put up with this.

If you dont keep to prearranged contractual agreements, I will have no alternative than to seek remedial measures aswell as letting people know that your fixed domains may be fixed - but the dates certainly are not and payments are sporadic at best.

I think you would be the first to agree that you have been letting me down month after month.

So - waiting games and flexability have come to an end. I would like to get paid on time every month.

I hope you acknowledge this email has been a last resort and I have been more than patient with you - much longer than anyone else would - and I have come to the end of my rope.

Kevin Leto December 10, 2010 at 11:03pm Report
James I'm working on getting this structured better on the timelines. I had hoped you were going to do what you had promised and market at a consumer based ROI, which wasn't done. I had hoped this would be a self funding division, now with the ad market still weak, I have to fund this all from BTD.

Anyways, since we are biz partners on DT.TV and I would like to keep a good relationship with you, I would appreciate you not making threats towards me. That really really rubs me the wrong way. Issues always happen in business. You deal with them and get things right. But it doesn't help when the person you are working with to get things right with is taking an attack posture. So please you've gotten your payments already so far of $3400 on $4500+$450, so that is already 70% ROI. And after this month's payment you'll be at 80% payback so far.

Good things are happening in other divisions so that is good.

So I will take good care of you. I like you and want to continue a good relationship together.

Kevin

James Barclay December 10, 2010 at 11:17pm
i take the threat back. Pay me when you can.

Kevin Leto December 10, 2010 at 11:24pm Report
Thank you James. I just sent you xxxx payment.

Kev

James Barclay January 1 at 1:39pm
whats going on kevin?

James Barclay February 22 at 12:48pm
kevin - please can you tell me when i will get the 800 dollars for the month of february. i would like you to give me a firm date please

Kevin Leto February 23 at 4:12am Report
I'm expecting to close some sales this week. Your first in line for payments.

James Barclay February 28 at 6:36am
last day of february and still nothing. What good is first in line when you are not meeting your obligations at all.

Anyway, i am getting more and more tired with this cat and mouse game. Everyone has a breaking point and i am surely there any day now.

For the last time - please pay me according to the contractual agreement for $800 for the month of February - now long overdue.

Kevin Leto February 28 at 6:56am Report
Hi James,

I am not playing games and I wish you would stop feeling that way.
I recognize all the obligations at hand. My monthly overhead is enormous and I take care of everyone as fast as the incoming flow allows.

The domain market has become next to impossible to deal with compared to the way it was when we started working together. At any time I've got $10k to $50k of inventory for sale. The market is flooded with sellers and buyers are grabbing the deals where sellers are litterally giving away domains for nothing. It doesn't do any good to sell for nothing. I've got very low prices but it takes way longer to get sales. It's never been like this for domain investors. PPC dived too as I'm sure you've recognized so you have to monetize much differently than before as well.

I've got people that owe me money that are late paying me. I'm trying to get that in today.

If you'd like to talk on the phone call this morning on 561-208-8244. I've got to walk my dog now, but will be back and available for a call in 45 mins.

Kevin

James Barclay March 2 at 4:30pm
I have no doubt Kevin that if you were rolling in cash that you would be paying me on time.

Unfortunately, you never sold me on making 12 monthly payments if and when you can. You sold me (and i sold two others) on the fact that your excellent reputation in the domaining business warranted your trust that I would be paid for 12 months on time every time.

To be blunt, your situation is very similar to alot of others, myself included. i am selling excellent names at bargain basement prices to try and keep my head above water. But if I make a promise supported by a contract, I would only enter that if I was assured that no matter what - I could pay the installments on time.

You have not done this for the last eight months and you have defaulted yet again by an entire month.

So I feel for you, but I am not responsible for your troubles. You are only as good as your word that you gave Kevin.........

Kevin Leto March 2 at 4:45pm Report
Hi James,

I've got good growth ideas working and the only idea from last year not working on a timely basis is the fixed income concept for the reasons we've discussed. My word is something I take very seriously. But if stuff beyond your control impacts a business concept it creates challenges to even the best of concepts. I'm not marketing the FID concept further with the way domain market conditions have continued to slide.

So I'm working on a way to keep the FID payments balanced as timely as possible until all are paid in full.

You have 2 more payments on your first deal, and we're 1/2 way on the 2 clients.

Kevin

James Barclay March 7 at 4:01pm
ok, but an entire month to go by without anything is unacceptable. you should know i am paying out of my own pockets $250 a month to the two other people concerned in this venture - leaving me to take the hit when all i was trying to do was help getting you more clients.

Kevin Leto March 7 at 4:19pm Report
I know. I know. I know. The domain market has become illiquid.

James Barclay March 8 at 7:17am
So after all this back and fourth - you have yet to give me a date for my february payment. Tell me the exact date please so that i dont have to feel like an idiot begging for my money - even though this is exactly what \i am doing.

This will be my last correspondence with you directly.
Sent via Facebook Mobile

Kevin Leto March 8 at 7:20am Report
I will give you a date as soon as I have it James.

 

[silentg]

@quadnames

I personally am sick to my stomach that you would try to detroy this guys reputation over a few dollars whether it was right or wrong.

Read what you have posted.

---------- Post added at 11:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 PM ----------

What's holding you back from paying your clients?

 

[razorblade]

Definitely! I'm a fearless soul and have always had a fight to the death persevering spirit when it comes to defending
my work and reputation.

Shame that you don't have that fight to the death persevering spirit to pay your contractual duties on time month after month.

 

[nam6641]

Read this whole thread... seems like a web was weaved:

From KRL :

James,

I figured this innovative solution would enhance domain sales with a specific cost
factor to me as the seller and my being responsible for generating the income on ad sales so it would end up as a wash
and then me taking a slight loss at the end when the profit payments. So I wouldn't make money from the domain sale, but
it would be a good deal for both the buyer and the seller since I figured more domains sold would enhance the number of clients I provide brokerage services for. Thus a win-win even though I would end up with a slight loss on my side of the deal.

So here, he is first saying the purpose of this business is to increase the number of clients for his brokerage services and he'd lose out on this deal (if this were true, seems like a foolish way to attempt to advertise and gain clients).

But later on the business model changes:

From KRL:

Thank you Josh. James asked me if he could market the concept. I wasn't sure myself if that was a good idea. No one else did.

---------- Post added at 01:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:18 PM ----------



I agree exactly! I figured though to start on a small scale to test the concept and find if it was as good as I thought and then scale it up.

So now, the business model is to borrow money, buy a big domain name, flip it for a profit, and repay the people who he borrowed money from.

Unless I am misreading things KRL changed his claim to the business model quite drastically.

Business model claim #2 sounds like what he was doing... but if you read his early posts he claims he is going to monetize the domain names he sells to people with ad income to pay them back, but claim #2 says he is going to pay them back from proceeds from a big flip. Which is it?

It does sound like a Ponzi scheme, and as KRL said "the economy is weak"... isn't that what Bernie Madoff said? So you borrowed money, couldn't buy and flip a domain name like you wanted to, and now have delayed payments to people. Delayed payments are troubling as it is, but it seems like the honest business model was not told to people. What is the business model? You are giving him your money to attempt to buy and flip a domain and get a piece of the profit. Why didn't KRL just say this flat out in the beginning? Maybe people wouldn't be as willing to part with their money if they knew the real business model.

Regardless, KRL contradicted himself in this thread. The business model is a MLM/Ponzi/Whatever you want to call it. Why not borrow from a bank for 5% a year instead of promising domainers 20% return in a year? Because the bank will go after your house if you default but domainers won't go through that hassle and legal expense for a $XXX or low $XXXX.

---------- Post added at 12:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 AM ----------

Opps, my 2nd quoted text didn't quote correctly, this is what was said in post #46 of this thread (KRL replying to GeoOwners comment):

Originally Posted by GeoOwners
On a large scale it could have worked...borrow lets say 100k using so-so names as backing...buy a 100k name with the funds, flip it for 140k (or insert any number higher than 120k)...clear 20k after paying the 20% and principle.

rinse/repeat. should work in a good economy."


(KRL reply)I agree exactly! I figured though to start on a small scale to test the concept and find if it was as good as I thought and then scale it up.