Domain auction process is fatally flawed and simply will not work well

[David G]

Some time ago I did a lengthy post regarding the fact my experience has been that auctions simply do not work for domains or websites. At that time I mentioned I had an excellent active website (this was several yrs ago when domains were in their heyday).

It had some great and costly Cold Fusion data based programming, it was up and running approx 2-1/2 yrs., had good traffic with about 35,000 (over 2 plus yrs) hits, was ranked well in the SE's, we even had more that 1,000 PAID MEMBERS who paid a $67-yr fee to participate and got some other benefits too, not directly related to the auction site,

Out of the 1,000 or so domains (some with developed sites) listed for sale (many good names), we had ZERO sales and few bids, that's right - no sales at all. Granted, the average asking price was more than the ridiculously low prices at DNF auctions, but I feel were still reasonable based on the overall quality of the domains.

The prices were NOT the problem except in only 1 case I was aware of. The fact is almost no one wanted to bid. Lots of traffic but little activity. We also sold finacial books on the same site and they always sold good. In fact, the books sold so well we ran out of inventory and stopped selling books.

After much thought and discussion and hearing from other domainers we came to the conclusion the domain auction process is totally flawed and fudamentally unsound. Few if any buyers want to engage in a bidding process on domains. I finally closed the website in disgust, after losing lots of money on it and untold thousands of hrs of time too over 2 plus yrs.

Why would buyers want to compete with others and drive up the price or deal with unknown buy prices beyond the reserve when there are zillions of names for sale? It is so much better to simply check Whois and send an email or PM and make an offer with no competition from others as in an auction environment.

It is a buyers market, not a sellers market, and auctions are often best used on something which is conceived as or is in short supply or a unique product and service, and in mostly a buyers market. Most of the domains are not that good and as such are far from being unique and in short supply as there are so many other options including similar names which are unreg'd.

These are reasons I have not been concerned about my total inability to even visit the live auctions since day one due to my computer setup not being compatable with the auctions Javascript. I would never use the live auctions as a seller or buyer, even if my Java worked so I did not worry about it.

P.S. I should make it clear my site was not a live auction site like dnf. It was an auction site but did not have bids only at certain times but 24X7, similar to Afternic. I really don't think that matters much, in fact I feel a live auction site may even be less successful overall, it simply is a flawed concept overall.

Just my opinion. Any thoughts from others, perhaps other domainers who had auction sites, I know there are several of them here (and understand they were also unsuccesful).

 

[URLCollection]

I can see why I did not even bother stopping by the auction last night - Seems like it may have been a waste of time - These scripting problems on the live auction are just crazy - I have never seen a site with so many problems on the auction scripts. We particiapate in several live auctions a week for various products and properties and they are never down? Spend some money and re-script the live auction is a good suggestion, I think. Open the live auction up to the GENERAL PUBLIC is also a good idea. Members should be the only ones that can post but anyone should be able to bid. Just an idea - Good luck -

 

[CoolHost.com]

Originally posted by Tippy
Refunds, lol ...

... To request a refund isn't nice is my books.

PS : Did I dig deep enough this time

Good stuff! As I've said before, SOMETHING has to happen, or this place is kaputz! I'm sure, collectively, we can figure it out.
PS. Yes, you did ... you're now starting to get it, Tippy!
Take care.

 

[Jack Gordon]

You can lead a horse to water, but I'm not sure anyone can make him pay $15 for it

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by FrontRow
You can lead a horse to water, but I'm not sure anyone can make him pay $15 for it

Or a $1 for that matter.:laugh:

 

[DomainOgre]

The only problem with adding the general public is that it will likely increase scamming and dead beats.

The platinum membership is what makes the sales on this forum more secure than on other domain forums IMO. I was not crazy about the membership fee, but I do see the general logic behind it.

 

[CoolHost.com]

Originally posted by WebHold


Or a $1 for that matter.:laugh:

Or ... bring back the "DNF Bucks" Live auctions! Selling a domain for $2,500 DNF$ sure looks good (even though it's only $22 or so, real money). Maybe it'll help with morale to see BiG numbers being tossed around?

 

[A D]

When I originally posted my comments and said we need more retail traffic that will pay big $ for domains that was poo pooed by some the same folks.

I truly believe we need more retail people in here with money to improve the quality of the auctions and the $ spent on domains.

nobody will get rich selling $1 domains and nobody will ge rich selling domains like greathostingonaverygoodserver.com

simply put, It would be best to buy 1 or 2 domains with value than brag about having thousands with crappy names.

elite auctions with serious bidders and serious capital would solve these issues.

-=DCG=-

 

[CoolHost.com]

Originally posted by DotComGod
When I originally posted my comments and said we need more retail traffic that will pay big $ for domains that was poo pooed by some the same folks.

I truly believe we need more retail people in here with money to improve the quality of the auctions and the $ spent on domains.

nobody will get rich selling $1 domains and nobody will ge rich selling domains like greathostingonaverygoodserver.com

simply put, It would be best to buy 1 or 2 domains with value than brag about having thousands with crappy names.

elite auctions with serious bidders and serious capital would solve these issues.

-=DCG=-

Would you be willing to post some of your "elite" domains in the next Live auction, DCG ... as Greg used to do, and as you've recommended here? We'll follow your lead.
Thanks.

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by DotComGod
When I originally posted my comments and said we need more retail traffic that will pay big $ for domains that was poo pooed by some the same folks.

I truly believe we need more retail people in here with money to improve the quality of the auctions and the $ spent on domains.

nobody will get rich selling $1 domains and nobody will ge rich selling domains like greathostingonaverygoodserver.com

simply put, It would be best to buy 1 or 2 domains with value than brag about having thousands with crappy names.

elite auctions with serious bidders and serious capital would solve these issues.

-=DCG=-

Good point DCG, however Elite will only bring Elite. To attract the masses, small steps need to be taken now before you consider opening the doors of the live auction to the public.

Try some of the suggested improvements in the other threads. This may help.

Part of the responsibility is on the sellers shoulders. If our expectations are to sell domains for $15 minimum, alot the crap regs and buys would stop. Accountability is a two way street.

 

[bidawinner]

Originally posted by CPiSites
I can see why I did not even bother stopping by the auction last night - Seems like it may have been a waste of time - These scripting problems on the live auction are just crazy - I have never seen a site with so many problems on the auction scripts. We particiapate in several live auctions a week for various products and properties and they are never down? Spend some money and re-script the live auction is a good suggestion, I think. Open the live auction up to the GENERAL PUBLIC is also a good idea. Members should be the only ones that can post but anyone should be able to bid. Just an idea - Good luck -

I agree, thats the best possible thing..open the auction up to the general public, take down some form of "identification" to weed out most of the nonsense. The have to sign up up with verifiable information , I think that would be a must.


And the script is really annoying because of the "refresh " every 15 seconds, technical stuff beyond me but something that would help. I am trying to scan down through the names. get part way and the damn thing refreashes taking me back to the top again

 

[Mr Webname]

Originally posted by bidawinner


I am trying to scan down through the names. get part way and the damn thing refreashes taking me back to the top again

Why don't you just click on "Last Week's Results" and check the list?

 

[A D]

coolhost,

no, I buy I don't sell, but thats just me.

I am the type you want in the auctions, someone with money that will buy a name they feel has good value regardless of cost.

are we ready for me to go after retail purchasers or do we want to keep this site as is and maybe open up another site for retail?

and who has good ideas of where we can buy ads to get good retail traffic in ?

-=DCG=-

 

[CoolHost.com]

Originally posted by DotComGod
coolhost,

no, I buy I don't sell, but thats just me.

I am the type you want in the auctions, someone with money that will buy a name they feel has good value regardless of cost.

are we ready for me to go after retail purchasers or do we want to keep this site as is and maybe open up another site for retail?

and who has good ideas of where we can buy ads to get good retail traffic in ?

-=DCG=-

Oh, OK ... you're a buyer, that's !!
I'm not sure when/where/whom poo-poo'd your idea of retail eyeballs, but clearly ... it is time to do SOMETHING. Where does the traffic currently come from (those "guests" that are showing on the home page)?!?
Thanks for listening. Please keep us abreast of the changes.

 

[chatcher]

Originally posted by WebHold


How does $1 domains benefit anyone?

The idea behind the $1 starting bid is that the seller is unconditionally willing to let the auction determine the value, and the selling price, of the domain. If you start the bidding at $200, then you really aren't putting the domain name up for auction, you are advertising it for sale (not that there is anything wrong with that). Buyers like $1 starting bids, and if you keep the buyers they will come back next week. The more buyers, the better the market, and that's good for the sellers.

There are enough savvy bidders in attendance that no name is going to sell for less than it's real wholesale value. The problem is sellers' expectations of value. Wholesale prices for domain names are not very high in most cases (for many domain names they are less than zero). It is a painful lesson to learn that domain names are not liquid assets.

To realize the best return on a name you need to find the right buyer. You can't expect that buyer to be here on any given Sunday. (You may never find them, but in my humble opinion the best way is to be patient and let them find you.)

If you think domain names are selling at auction here too cheaply, you should be buying them! But I think the real problem is that most domain names being listed are either not worth buying, or they are listed with a starting bid that's too high for this wholesale crowd. I think the auction is fun, and it's a great way to swap names you're tired of sitting on for some you'd like to fool around with. But nobody ever said it would be the place to realize the best price for a domain name you really care about.

I do like the idea of not allowing the re-listing of previously unsold domain names (or at least pushing them to the end of the sale). Otherwise the pool of auction names becomes polluted with the unwanted dregs of auctions past.

 

[bidawinner]

Originally posted by Mr Webname


Why don't you just click on "Last Week's Results" and check the list?

Yes , thats what I can do, but at the same time doesn't that constant refresh evry 15 seconds for 2 hours annoy the hell out of you ? It's like a water torture..drip,.....drip........drip

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by chatcher


The idea behind the $1 starting bid is that the seller is unconditionally willing to let the auction determine the value, and the selling price, of the domain. If you start the bidding at $200, then you really aren't putting the domain name up for auction, you are advertising it for sale (not that there is anything wrong with that). Buyers like $1 starting bids, and if you keep the buyers they will come back next week. The more buyers, the better the market, and that's good for the sellers.

There are enough savvy bidders in attendance that no name is going to sell for less than it's real wholesale value. The problem is sellers' expectations of value. Wholesale prices for domain names are not very high in most cases (for many domain names they are less than zero). It is a painful lesson to learn that domain names are not liquid assets.

To realize the best return on a name you need to find the right buyer. You can't expect that buyer to be here on any given Sunday. (You may never find them, but in my humble opinion the best way is to be patient and let them find you.)

If you think domain names are selling at auction here too cheaply, you should be buying them! But I think the real problem is that most domain names being listed are either not worth buying, or they are listed with a starting bid that's too high for this wholesale crowd. I think the auction is fun, and it's a great way to swap names you're tired of sitting on for some you'd like to fool around with. But nobody ever said it would be the place to realize the best price for a domain name you really care about.

I do like the idea of not allowing the re-listing of previously unsold domain names (or at least pushing them to the end of the sale). Otherwise the pool of auction names becomes polluted with the unwanted dregs of auctions past.

We agree to disagree. If the doors are going to be open to the retail market for this live auction, it is my belief that purchasing domains for $1 will drive the domain market even further down. While I chose $15 as a base / starting number. You could make an argument to increase it.

 

[Cash Is King]

Originally posted by bidawinner



Yes , thats what I can do, but at the same time doesn't that constant refresh evry 15 seconds for 2 hours annoy the hell out of you ? It's like a water torture..drip,.....drip........drip

I do not remember. I was counting sheep! :laugh: :laugh:

 

[bidawinner]

Originally posted by chatcher


The idea behind the $1 starting bid is that the seller is unconditionally willing to let the auction determine the value, and the selling price, of the domain. If you start the bidding at $200, then you really aren't putting the domain name up for auction, you are advertising it for sale (not that there is anything wrong with that). Buyers like $1 starting bids, and if you keep the buyers they will come back next week. The more buyers, the better the market, and that's good for the sellers.

There are enough savvy bidders in attendance that no name is going to sell for less than it's real wholesale value. The problem is sellers' expectations of value. Wholesale prices for domain names are not very high in most cases (for many domain names they are less than zero). It is a painful lesson to learn that domain names are not liquid assets.

To realize the best return on a name you need to find the right buyer. You can't expect that buyer to be here on any given Sunday. (You may never find them, but in my humble opinion the best way is to be patient and let them find you.)

If you think domain names are selling at auction here too cheaply, you should be buying them! But I think the real problem is that most domain names being listed are either not worth buying, or they are listed with a starting bid that's too high for this wholesale crowd. I think the auction is fun, and it's a great way to swap names you're tired of sitting on for some you'd like to fool around with. But nobody ever said it would be the place to realize the best price for a domain name you really care about.

I do like the idea of not allowing the re-listing of previously unsold domain names (or at least pushing them to the end of the sale). Otherwise the pool of auction names becomes polluted with the unwanted dregs of auctions past.

I agree with catcher on this .. $1 auctions invite bidding $200 listing are just that for sale listings.

 

[micro]

as i wrote in an other post - why not just drop the member fees? i dont care if it get's dropped and i paid before. surely the whole forum would profit from being an unpaid forum again. there are other means of generating income for example every name sold through the auction has a fee of min 10$ - and all those banners already etc etc..

 

[CoachRock]

Someone could just list their crappy name for $15.00 as opposed to $1.00 ! ! !

Each name should be submitted to a process that assigned a minimium appraised value.

If the name met certain criteria then it would be listed in the next live auction.

You could post each name as a poll and each member could vote for a range say:

$1 - 10

$11 - 20

The above Names would end up in the Value Auction (public invited)


$21 - $30

$31 - $40

$41 - $50

$51 - +

The above Names would end up in the Platinum Auction (members only)


Just an idea not sure if it's good or bad or just needs developed.

I know I sure missed not being able to post and communicate with members here as I did not have a membership. I think there are ways of making the forum a market for dominers and retail clients. Just keep expressing ideas here and something good will come along.

Thanks,

CoachRock