Domain Grabbed from Under Me... Has This Happened To You?

[wordplay]

I reg a domain maybe every couple of months - only own 45 - obviously a minor player.

So maybe what I'm about to describe happens now and then to you more serious players.

I had a domain, ListenToFree.com, on a list for months as one I was considering reg'ing, but just got around to it today.

Before doing so, I checked it at estibot and domaintops, just to get at least a feel for any potential value.

I then was called away for 2 minutes, got back on and reg'd the domain at GoDaddy - which said it went through.

A few seconds later, I receive an email from GoDaddy stating that the domain was not able to be registered, as it had already been previously.

I checked the whois, and found out the domain was reg'd after I checked the appraisal sites (and before I attempted to reg it).

My question is: are there ways of hacking into these appraisal sites and quickly determining the value of a domain being checked, then immediately reg'ing it? Or was this just some kind of unfortunate coincidence?
It was reg'd through Network Solutions by some guy from Huarte, Navarra (Spain) if that makes any difference.

Thank you for any thoughts.

 

[draggar]

What you're describing is front running and is done without any hacking - it is done by the WhoIs service providers themselves. Some registrars are very notorious for this (I won't mention any names).

They harvest the WhoIs searches though their site and check each query
1) Is it available
2) Is it a "good" domain (according to their metrics).

 

[wordplay]

draggar, thank you for your response -
Let me get this straight - are you saying GoDaddy uses this method?
Perhaps a better way to ask: have you heard that they've used this method?

Also: If this was the case with my situation - why does the Whois say it was reg'd by some guy in Spain? Is that some kind of fake name/misdirection?

 

[picassoface]

I would Stay Away from estibot.com as I think you are right. I did an experiment and typed in a semi-good (but not good enough to reg) name in estibot and then checked on godaddy - it was available. This was 2 hours ago. I just checked and now the .com AND .net are reg'd......... I believe a dnf member created estibot ???

 

[BidNo]

Yes, frontrunning is very unethical but very widespread. In additional to some registrars, many domain tools and even ISPs sell search logs and non-resolving domains. Even my parking company, Fabulous.com, is guilty.

Do not trust anyone who hasn't stated in writing they do not and will not engage in the practice. The only service I trust is http://iWhoIs.com (privacy policy here).

Let me add that I abhor the practice. I assure you none of my sites (DnSalePrice.com, Vurr.com, etc.) will ever engage in this practice.

 

[wordplay]

BidNo, thanks for your response -

If this lousy, unethical technique is widespread:

1. Why is nothing being done about it - why don't domainers band together against it
(publicly boycott the companies that commit it, etc.).

2. How can I prove this happened in my case (if it did)?

Thanks.

picassoface That sounds fairly suspicious, especially if others have had the same thing happen.

 

[BidNo]

Organizing domainers is like herding cats. And generally when domainers do find leverage it's only because their interests have aligned with "big money". In this case, "big money" is at opposite purposes (and, in fact, feeding off domainers). Chances are slim we'd successfully organize and exert influence: rather we'll choose another path (e.g. iWhoIs.com) and move on.

I noted Fabulous.com above hoping that public shame will one day outweigh profit from the practice. I encourage others to name names where they know -- with first-hand certainty -- that this happens. And to continue naming names until companies and sites adopt privacy policy that explicitly prohibit.

 

[james2002]

I think moniker whois is good to check names which you like to register. Not much problem, IMO.

 

[wordplay]

Again, thanks for the responses, but:

I still don't know if I got "mugged" - or accidentally run-over.

Is there anyway to determine (for me or anyone in this situation) that the domain I was trying to reg was swiped?

Thanks.

P.S. BidNo, Re: DnSalePrice.com and Vurr.com: those are two good services you offer - people should check them out.

 

[katherine]

Domain availability check at godaddy is just not reliable (not real-time). If you use godaddy don't complain that you were unable to register domains that weren't available in the first place

 

[wordplay]

Not sure what your point is, Kate. I never complained about a delay/inaccurate registration information.
I only noted it. Please read my questions, and reply to them if you wish. Thanks.

 

[PRED]

estibot is front running?

i never use it as no good imo anyway, but this needs bringing to attention if true
have they not made unlawful now?

 

[draggar]

draggar, thank you for your response -
Let me get this straight - are you saying GoDaddy uses this method?
Perhaps a better way to ask: have you heard that they've used this method?

Also: If this was the case with my situation - why does the Whois say it was reg'd by some guy in Spain? Is that some kind of fake name/misdirection?

I have no experience with this with GD - in fact, I've checked domains with them and waited a couple of days and was still able to get them (maybe my names were crappy?).

Misdirection mainly - registrars have people all over the world working for them so it would be easy for someone in Spain to do it.

Do not trust anyone who hasn't stated in writing they do not and will not engage in the practice. The only service I trust is http://iWhoIs.com (privacy policy here).

Let me add that I abhor the practice. I assure you none of my sites (DnSalePrice.com, Vurr.com, etc.) will ever engage in this practice.

Agreed - do not trust anyone at least until they have earned your trust, and even then, don't trust them 100%.

Organizing domainers is like herding cats. And generally when domainers do find leverage it's only because their interests have aligned with "big money". In this case, "big money" is at opposite purposes (and, in fact, feeding off domainers). Chances are slim we'd successfully organize and exert influence: rather we'll choose another path (e.g. iWhoIs.com) and move on.

Great analogy. Even with the Snowe job, er, bill, floating the US federal government the industry still didn't band together - even though it is a very large risk to the entire industry - we'd all be f-ed if it passed unchecked (and with the misleading names they give these bills - it would pass with flying colors and people would cheer it on).

 

[Bionic]

Estibot has stated here before that he gets 1000s of domain queries a day and doesn't go through them. Be careful with your ideas/intellectual property.

 

[katherine]

2 things to consider:

• the guy does not seem to own many domains (I only found one via google)
• there are not many domainers (hopefully) who register with netsol at $35 a pop

It is very possible that when you checked the name at godaddy it had already been registered the same day, thus was not available.

When you visit domaintops.com it also displays a list of recent appraisal requests. That's like an invitation to capitalize on somebody else's ideas

 

[Albert Tai]

Estibot isnt' a great evaluation anyways.
Should just research yourself instead of using automated appraisals.

 

[Gerry]

I have never experienced this with GD.

It is, however, coincidental that I had one in my shopping cart last night that was regged before I checked out.

This was an incredible dropped name, 14 years old - I think I pissed myself when I saw it. How this went unordered as a backorder was shocking.

I would be more suspicious with obscure words that suddenly disappear instead of a word like this.

 

[wordplay]

Well everyone, I wrote the guy who registered "my" domain - and asked him if he stole it or reg'd it honestly. He wrote back and said he did reg it honestly.

And you know what? I believe him.

The polite, almost apologetic tone of his email, as well as the fact he replied at all -
brought me to this conclusion. I could, of course, be wrong.

So thank you all again for your input and suggestions, I've learned quite a bit.

Kate, you said:
"When you visit domaintops.com it also displays a list of recent appraisal requests"

That's an excellent point. Made me go "doh" and smack my head I will certainly keep that in mind from now on.

 

[draggar]

You did what could prevent you from getting it. People still taste - even though they're not supposed to.

You should have seen that it was not available to register - then wait a week or two and try to register it again.

Of course the "owner" is going to say that they reg it legitimately, technically he did but by you emailing him and asking about it, including if they "stole" it, shows them that there is a demand for it and more of a chance they'll keep it.

give it a few weeks and try to register it again.

 

[wordplay]

Thanks draggar -
I hear you, but actually, writing the guy gave me peace of mind.

And I posted the domain in this thread, so I've already kissed it good-bye

I've marked this up as a learning experience, and have moved on.