legal Domain spamming network: defendnames, actdomains and others

[airmax]

First you waste my time with filling my inbox with spam, now you want me to waste my time forwarding you your own spam, listen just clean up how you send out emails, and harvest whois info, and follow canspam and make the net a better place. We all make mistakes, learn, and move on.

 

[ImageAuthors]

First you waste my time with filling my inbox with spam, now you want me to waste my time forwarding you your own spam, listen just clean up how you send out emails, and harvest whois info, and follow canspam and make the net a better place. We all make mistakes, learn, and move on.

You went out of your way to attack me in this thread, and now you're being evasive when I ask for evidence. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[airmax]

Forward me emails. Anything else is easy to fabricate.

If Michael sent you a dozen emails, then I won't be working with him anymore. But I know his process limits emails to one per person because I reviewed it meticulously before agreeing to let him promote any of my domains.

Read above, is that your email template? Yes or No?


I don't even know who you are, not have any reason to fabricate anything, if you are going to spam, people are going to call you out on it.


I don't have time to waste, but don't try and cover up the bs of the sales tactics you are employing. You got issues with your staff you deal with them.

 

[airmax]

Don't know you buddy, only person who went out of their way is the spammer who is selling your domains. I provided info on this open forum, I do not know you. I got a whole bunch of emails trying to sell me appdevelopers.net on Saturday, and did not appreciate it.


You are very aware the tools you are using, and do tell me how many emails you sent out?

 

[ImageAuthors]

Virtually everybody uses an email template. That's clearly not the issue. I've received template emails from Elliot Silver, DomainNameSales, Nokta, and probably you. Every day, I get several hundred emails; and a lot of those are domain solicitations using templates from domainers large and small. But I've never gone out of my way to attack those people publicly.

Some people are just jerks, and jerks don't need a reason to fabricate nonsense. Maybe that's not you. But you're certainly not trying very hard to clear that up.

As far as you not having time ... If you don't have time to corroborate your allegations with evidence, then don't make those allegations. If you're honest, then you'll make time.

 

[airmax]

Just because others send you spam, does not empower you to do the same. I got multiple emails from your broker I assume trying to sell appdevelopers.net, maybe you can state how many thousand emails you sent out, and you might get a clear idea how you sent multiple emails to the same parties. Do not offload your actions by the actions of other spammers, I showed you evidence of your template sent to my many app domains. Why should I waste my time, trying to fix your broken spam engine?

This is a open forum addressing the such actions, your domains are engaged in, if you have such issue take it up with the forum moderator. I don't need to post in a spam forum if I did not get spammed.

Is that the email template you employed to sell your domains? Yes or No?

Did you send out many a emails trying to sell that name? Yes or No?

Maybe when you answer my questions, I will invest more of my time into this.

So please answer my questions...

 

[ImageAuthors]

@ Airmax,

I'm sorry you've been caught with your pants down. But you shouldn't claim that somebody sent you "a dozen random emails" when that's not the case.

You made a claim, which I'm 99.9% sure is untrue. I asked for evidence, indicating that I would avoid doing business with the person if your allegations were true. Yet you've continued to dodge and dance. If what you said is accurate, then back it up.

And a word of advice. If you have a problem with somebody who works elbow to elbow with you in the same industry, maybe you should talk to him privately before attacking him publicly -- particularly when those attacks are unfounded.

 

[airmax]

Like I said I don't know you, all I know is I was spammed, I provided you 3 of the many emails I received from a mass emailer trying to sell me appdevelopers.net, which looks like you owned. You clearly hired a broker to go out, and send mass emails, of harvested whois data to anyone that owned a domain ending in apps.

You are the one who got caught with your pants down, I don't need to prove anything more to a spammer, if you are going to employ such tactics to sell domains in mass email cull, your going to get called out. You obviously took the easy way out, spamming does not always equate sales.


I provided you evidence on page 1, if those are not your templates trying to sell your domain, sent to me many times over based on my many app domains then we got an issue, but you fail to Answer any of my questions...

Not sure what audience you are trying to parlay to buy you screwed up, the simple thing would be to come on the thread, and apologize, and say your going to look at what went wrong.

You obviously sent out mass emails, and something went wrong, and now are looking to lay blame on me, for calling out someone who harvests whois info to send out mass emails, not in accordance with the canspam act. You are in the wrong!

All your spam mails are sitting in my trash where they belong.

Here is yet another example of your spam, since you need more proof, is this your email? Yes or No?


-------->

Since you own xxxxiapps.com, maybe you'd be interested to learn that AppDevelopers.net is selling in a public auction at the moment. AppDevelopers.net redirects to the auction listing, which contains additional information.


If this courtesy message is unwelcome, I apologize. You are not part of any mailing list. In fact, your information has already been deleted from our records. The goal of this one-time email is to give people who already own app-related domains a fair chance to participate in the auction, if they so desire.


Thanks for your time,
Michael Rollins

Powered by YourMailingListProvider

 

[ImageAuthors]

Here's what I think happened, based on what Michael told me a moment ago:

You received one email about AppDevelopers.net. For some reason, that annoyed you. You began lecturing Michael about how .NETs are worthless and he shouldn't be trying to sell you his "crap". Michael pointed out that AppDevelopers.net already had 5 bids. You began shouting that .NETs can't sell anymore. Michael mentioned that Pizza.net sold for $150,000 the week before. And this made you furious. Michael stopped talking to you and ... surprise, surprise ... you go to DNForum for vengeance.

Ironically, I see you own a LOT of .NET domains. So I suppose seeing somebody else selling a .NET infuriates you because you've had some bad luck.

Anyway, I think you made up that story about "a dozen random emails".

To put it bluntly, I believe you lied.

Of course, it's conceivable that you're telling the truth. But nothing in your behavior indicates that you're actually trying to help fix anything. I've already stated that if you could back up your allegations I would stop working with Michael. This, however, interests you less than shouting.

 

[airmax]

Listen, you seem to THINK alot of things, but you are not understanding harvesting whois data in bulk, and sending out mass spam, not in accordance to canspam is going to render backlash. I got multiple emails, I have shown you the template, you are making excuses for the actions of the broker you employed. Clearly the public can see, something went wrong, which it usually does when you send out mass emails.

This has nothing to do with the domain in question, but the actions you employ to inform random domain owners in bulk, by harvesting whois data for purposes not intended to make a quick sale, and unload a massive portfolio of everlasting renewals. I understand you feel the pressure of the bills, but better mousetraps to your issue exist. You might want to practice better due diligence in the future.

I did not lie, I received many emails trying to sell me appdevelopers.net, you can see then posted throughout this forum.

You clearly sent out mass emails, you don't know what went wrong... Clearly something did, you are obviously the guilty party here, no reason to lie, I presented the right information, on the right forum, sorry you can't accept your spam engine messed up.

I have nothing to gain from this, I wasted enough time on this, you are the one who is in the wrong, do not try to offset blame, nor the issue at hand to nonsense matters. Just don't email me anymore, and I am happy, Thank you.

 

[ImageAuthors]

How hard is it to copy the one email you received and past in a bunch of different domain names? I'm sure that someone caught lying in your position would do exactly that.

That's why I asked you to forward me real emails, which you have been avoiding ever since. There are no "dozen random emails".

Do you think I would entrust my domains to someone who sends multiple messages to the same person? If that happened, I'd drop that guy in a heart beat! At the very least, I'd want to investigate his practices. Although I'm verrrrrrrrry skeptical about your claims, I'd certainly want to fix a real problem with someone who has been publicly representing one of my domains for sale.

And if you were sincerely concerned about spam, you wouldn't be writing pages and pages of loudmouthed unsubstantiated claims and insults in a public forum. You'd be showing me the evidence so that I could use it to correct a problem.

But it seems pretty clear that this is pure fiction. I'm sorry your .NETs aren't selling well. And I'm sorry that you received one unwanted email about a .NET domain that I own, which has been doing fairly well on Flippa. And I'm sorry that Michael didn't kiss your feet.

But don't lie.

 

[airmax]

No reason to lie, like I showed you before I got multiple emails on apps related .coms, not sure why you are trying to twist the facts on a public forum. Ok, you did something a bit frowned upon, and got called out on it, you are harvesting whois info in bulk, creating mass whois lists, and blindly sending out spam, not in accordance with the canspam act, what could be more clear, you actually hired a 3rd party to do this for you, for the basis of potential profit. Then you go on to say well Alexander sends spam to me everyday, and I accept it, so it is ok for me to as well. No, what you are doing is wrong, I have been very clear, now you are trying to trust facts to make yourself look like some sort of spam saint. You got caught red handed,I have cut and pasted multiple same emails of domains I was spammed with trying to sell appdevelopers.net.

i have asked you many questions above, you have not answered any.

Yes, a person selling your domains spammed me many times, it is true, get over it, and fix it.

Be a man, and accept responsibility, the people on this forum, are neither stupid nor naive. I will not be intimidated to shut up, get over it, so your bulk email system is not fool proof, nor should it be. Sorry to the forum this has taken up valuable spacePowered by YourMailingListProvider, but fact is fact, I have nothing to gain by lying. You are attempting to profit by taking a shortcut. This is not what domaining is about.


-->
Since you own xxxxxtapps.com, maybe you'd be interested to learn that AppDevelopers.net is selling in a public auction at the moment. AppDevelopers.net redirects to the auction listing, which contains additional information.


If this courtesy message is unwelcome, I apologize. You are not part of any mailing list. In fact, your information has already been deleted from our records. The goal of this one-time email is to give people who already own app-related domains a fair chance to participate in the auction, if they so desire.


Thanks for your time,
Michael Rollins

Powered by YourMailingListProvider


-----

Simple fact I was sent many of the emails above to app related .com domains by the parties above trying to sell appdevelopers.net!

 

[ImageAuthors]

@ airmax,

You made up the story about receiving multiple emails in order to try to intimidate Michael -- who sent you exactly one email, using the template you mention. I'm not sure why you overreacted to this extent or decided to lie, but undoubtedly it has to do with insecurity about your own .NET sales. Evidently you didn't like the fact that Michael responded to your first email with questions. And, judging from your spitting, shouting emails, you became especially irate once he contradicted you about .NETs being worthless these days. $150,000 is a big contradiction, and I guess you felt like your credentials as a domainer were being called into question by a college student.

I've seen the email correspondence between the two of you; and, while Michael was patiently trying to understand the nature of the (imaginary) problem, you did nothing but make threats and insults. Once he stopped paying attention to you, you immediately posted this nonsense in DNForum as a petty form of retaliation. Maybe you saw Michael as some sort of novice interloper who needed to be slapped around. But now you've got me involved, and I'm in this industry full time. So it will be pretty awkward for you in the coming years if you keep this charade up.

To me it's perfectly clear that you invented the story about receiving multiple emails in order to add faux credibility to your impatience after receiving one single unwanted email about a .NET that was outselling yours.

Mistakes are not out of the question, of course. But I'm fanatical about preventing them -- both out of respect for others and for the sake of efficiency. I scrutinized Michael's process in advance, before ever letting him promote my domains. And I've audited the records in the past few hours. Realistically, I can see no earthly way you would have received more than one email. Unless you use a dozen different email addresses for a dozen different domains and have something to hide, there is no explanation (except dishonesty) for your refusal to show me the alleged emails.

Since you have consistently refused to forward any emails to me, it's patently clear that they don't exist.

Now, I'm perfectly happy to keep this conversation going. That way you'll be at the top of DNForum in perpetuity. But this debacle reflects badly on you, and I'd recommend admitting to yourself privately that this fib has gone a bit too far.

 

[EM @MAJ.com]

All my dot com domains received a dot net offer, something like this "Would you like to have this domain ______.net?

I still politely respond, no need.

Well, I have a few dot net too.

 

[ImageAuthors]

I still politely respond, no need.

Absolutely right. It's professional etiquette and also basic humane courtesy.

 

[airmax]

If you want me to assist you into perfecting your SPAM ENGINE, not going to happen. ONE VERY IMPORTANT QUESTION, this might solve a lot of issues, HOW MANY EMAILS DID YOUR 3RD party BULK EMAILER SEND OUT? Please provide an honest answer to this forum....

You are obviously employing bulk email efforts to spam your domains, and for the record no I have never received spam from Elliot, nor other parties you mentioned other than Alexander on a daily basis. This has nothing to do with domain sale, or domains owned, this has to do with your practices of soliciting domain sales, using whois farming, with auto opt in mailing lists to the masses, outsourced to a 3rd party who has commission incentive to be compensated.

You have twisted the facts, but you have not answered some critical questions. You are the liar, I did receive multiple emails, you expect me to assist you now, so you can send spam more effectively. Well here is a start, maybe do not send spam to people who have their domains on parked servers, or domainers who own more than a few hundred domains, that might be a start. I know you were eager to let me, and others know about the once in a lifetime opportunity to purchase AppDevelopers.net, and Employers.net, but I did not ask to be part of your mailing list, and when you say one time email, I expect you to live up to that commitment.


First off for the record, I don't know who you are, I came to this thread and posted here because I received multiple emails from one [email protected], who is let us say MARKETING names owned by you. You farmed out these MARKETING duties to a third party, in hopes of reaching a mass audience, how do you achieve this, by farming out WHOIS info of APPS related domains. Then you go and send bulk emails by auto opting all these emails into your Bulk Mailing List Tool.

I found even more spam from this same person. So if I am not part of some mailing list, why do I keep receiving multiple spams from the party above selling your domain names constantly.


Here is my email logs:

(FROM: [email protected])
Date:	05/10/2013 3:10:19 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time

(FROM: [email protected])
Date:05/10/2013 3:15:02 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time

FROM: [email protected])
Date:	05/10/2013 3:22:20 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time

FROM: [email protected])
Date:	05/10/2013 3:22:49 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time

THIS IS ANOTHER SPAM, I PULLED FROM THE DEPTHS OF MY TRASH BOX FROM YOUR PARTIES:

([email protected])
Date:	01/10/2013 11:52:58 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time

Employers.net ... Now for Sale​ Employers.net​ One of the most important words in the English language, Employers.net, is now selling in a public auction. We're writing to people who already own employer-related domains and websites. Since you're listed as the owner of XXXXXXXXXXXXX.com, we want to give you the chance to decide if you'd like to participate in the auction. Why is Employers.net so important? Because almost everybody alive WORKS for a living. At some point, sooner or later, we all look for an employer. Or else we ARE employers, often with questions about human resources, taxes, marketing, management, and other employer-specific topics. Employers.net is the ideal brand name for an online job board, a community forum, a consulting firm, or a networking platform. Thousands of people own or operate domains centering on the topic of employers -- even using the word "employers" in a longer, less memorable, less authoritative name. For exactly ONE of those individuals / companies, this is the chance to upgrade to a piece of premium online real estate. Compare a made-up, multi-word domain that people must be taught to remember ... to the large number of natural Google searches each month for "employers". .NET will always be synonymous with the internet and social networking. And people will always seek employers or identify as employers. Those facts make Employers.net a permanent asset with resale value like a house or a car. And there aren't many domains like it. If you're interested, don't miss your chance! The Auction​ Unlike most auctions, where the price goes up as more people get involved, Employers.net has been listed as a reverse auction. This means the price gradually decreases over time until somebody buys the domain or else a lower limit is reached. At any moment, someone can purchase Employers.net for the listed price. It's also possible to submit an offer below the listed amount. If the reduced price reaches your offer and nobody else buys Employers.net first, then the domain is yours. The auction listing can be found at DNX.com. Just click on the section for "Buy Domains" and look for Employers.net. What's a Fair Price?​ Just last week, Pizza.net sold for $150,000. Employers.net is priced FAR below that amount and expected to sell quickly. Premium domains such as Employers.net typically command prices well above the $10 it takes to register something contrived like, say, some-good-employazzz.biz. The reason is simple. It's a question of supply and demand. There's only one Employers.net, whereas there are thousands of people who'd like to own it. You can compare past domain sales to help measure the fair market value. Here are some helpful sites: DNJournal.com/domainsales.htm (Last week's reported sales.) NameBio.com DNSalePrice.com (Searchable past sales.) Remember, Employers.net is an asset that retains its value -- not a perishable service cost. Also, weigh its price against the ongoing cost of marketing -- often paying per click for some lesser domain. And consider how this presitigious brand name could help grow your audience through passive discovery online -- for free, year after year. Owning Employers.net gets you in the door with venture capital. Real world employers can take Employers.net seriously. How does XXXXXXXXXXX .com compare? About this Message​ We respect your time and privacy. So this is a one-time message. You are not part of any ongoing mailing list. And your contact information has already been deleted from our records. If you have any questions about the auction, this message, or domains in general, there is a human being on the other end of this email waiting to answer those questions.

So I keep getting this one time speech, but not much is being done about it, so everytime you go and sell a domain, I get a one time email x thousands.... I also do not see any address or business address in regards to the canspam act?

The people of the forum can decide for themselves the involvement of your actions, and the steps you are talking to MARKET your domains. I have provided more than enough proof to show you are not dealing with the confides of the law when it comes to sending out bulk mail

 

[GeorgeK]

If the domain name is registered at GoDaddy, consider submitting an abuse complaint to them for spamming (with appropriate evidence/logs). Also, complain to Google/Gmail, to report the abuse.

It's my understanding that GoDaddy will even charge the domain registrant in cases where they find the abuse took place.

 

[GeorgeK]

See for example:

http://www.warriorforum.com/main-in...godaddy-demanding-199-one-spam-complaint.html

"Godaddy demanding $199 for one spam complaint!"

Yesterday I received a strange email from Godaddy's "abuse" department stating they had received a single complaint regarding spam email promoting our web site. The email gave me 48 hours to respond or risk having our domain cancelled.

Be sure to document the complaint (i.e. don't make false complaints against someone).

 

[ImageAuthors]

@ airmax,

Here's how I know you're lying:

(1) Michael's process involves gathering data in a spreadsheet. A second table of that spreadsheet regroups the data using formulas to guarantee uniqueness of any email address prior to import or mailing.

(2) YMLP, which is the service he uses to actually send out the emails, AUTOMATICALLY SCREENS OUT duplicate email addresses during an import. It is is LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for your email address to be imported more than once. And that makes it LITERALLY IMPOSSIBLE for you to have been sent more than one email. Even if Michael had tried to import your email address 100 times, YMLP would filter out 99 out of 100 and leave only one. I've already confirmed that only one batch of emails was sent out. That's unambiguous.

(3) You have refused for hours and hours to forward any actual emails.

Between those 3 things, it's obvious that your claim of receiving "a dozen random emails" about AppDevelopers.net is 100% false.

Yes, it looks like Michael also contacted you about Employers.net. But that's not the same thing as AppDevelopers.net, is it? In fact, it's a completely different email with no verbiage in common whatsoever. So that's hardly evidence to support your little lie.

Now, if you're really so upset about receiving an email, why don't you add yourself to the blocked list by clicking unsubscribe? Or reply indicating that you'd like not to hear about domains in the future? I know for a fact that Michael always responds amicably. And the whole reason I insisted he use YMLP is because it enables domainers a way to filter themselves out permanently, without ever being part of any mailing list. The only list Michael keeps is the block list that PREVENTS sending emails to people.

Obviously, somebody like Michael is wasting his time by contacting domainers. So, if every domainer would choose to be blocked after the first email, that would be ideal in terms of preventing waste. But, since you didn't even try doing that, there's no excuse for insulting a kid like Michael when he's being polite and doing his best. And there's no excuse for making threats. And there's definitely no excuse for LYING.

If you have received more than one email, with different content, about different domains, during different weeks, it's because ... you're a domainer. When a person owns lots of domains, they tend to get contacted about domains more frequently. This shouldn't come as a surprise. And to me it seems a bit hypocritical to spit and scream about it. It's as if you owned 1000 telephone numbers and then complained about getting lots of phone calls!

I probably own 10-30 times as many domains as you do. Obviously, that doesn't mean that I'm a better domainer. But it does mean that I get a HUGE amount of domain-related spam. And guess what, I'm okay clicking through it. I've never threatened anybody. I've never insulted somebody who was trying to be polite, as Michael was with you. I've never spread lies. I've never attacked people in the forums just because they knocked on my door hoping to sell something.

Yes, I get spam sales offers from all sorts of people. Elliot Silver, Nokta, DomainNameSales brokers, you name it. Literally a few hundred emails per day that are solely due to me maintaining a large domain portfolio. It comes with the territory. And many domainers use email templates. For instance, Adam Dicker very publicly has recommended one or more software packages for sending out bulk emails to buyer prospects. And there's nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. Few people who use templates screen emails as conscientiously as Michael does. These days, I don't have time; but, yes, I've used bulk email methods myself in the past. The most time-consuming part of it is manually deleting contacts to whittle down the list into something more relevant. I insist that anybody I work with on promotions does that. But, no matter how many precautions a person takes, whether using bulk methods to economize on sending 50-100 emails or knocking on doors by hand, ... you always run across jerks who respond badly, as you did and then some!

Mainly, what I object to here (apart from the lies and the public attacks), is your lack of interest in any actual solution. You never contacted me, but you rushed to condemn me in public all the same. And you avoided answering any of Michael's questions after you began berating him. All in all, I call that insincerity and bad faith. Perhaps you should work to well your own domains rather than attacking others who are working to sell theirs. Sometimes domainers are too much like those 2 crabs in a pot that just drag each other backward.

OK. So you lied. And I pointed it out. And you're angry that you look foolish when you think I'm the one who should be punished for indirectly sending you an email. What should we do about it?














You know perfectly well who I am because you posted my name and address as the owner of the domain. So don't play dumb. Obviously you didn't research me, though. If you had, you would have been more careful about lying. I'm sure you thought you were dealing with some kid with his first 3 or 4 domains.

 

[Theo]

I created this thread to point out the blind, serial spammers (such as the ones listed at the top post). These are the a*holes that once you register or drop-catch a domain, they email you about it or about similar ones.

It's understandable, that at some point domainers cross paths with regards to spam. I complained to Nokta only once, they apologized profusely and never received another email. However, others might address the matter differently.

I suggest that airmax/ImageAuthors try to resolve this amicably outside of this thread, please.