Domaining Flamewar

[jasdon11]

The conventions I've attended, the parties are always organized by a sponsor of the convention...But what DS is doing here is different, they are not a sponsor, they're a outside competitor feeding off somebody else's convention, As much as I hate to say this, it's not right and shows NO class at all.

Well said RG - someone gets it!

From the text in the email, DS have cancelled their contract with TRAFFIC, only to piggy-back the gathering made possible by them.

This is not displaying a competative edge in my book - it's shoddy business practice. Would you trust these guys with your income? Think they'll be looking out for you?

The other parties are 'sponsors events', not piggy-backing - from companies who are contributing to the event ethically.

EDIT: Looks like we are in for an interesting debate - check out Ricks blog and Ron Sheridens comment....

 

[eq78]

I would trust them more than I would trust RicK Schwartz but that is just my personal preference

and DOC said it best RICK does not speak for me or anyone I know he speaks for his clique

 

[Smith]

The conventions I've attended, the parties are always organized by a sponsor of the convention...But what DS is doing here is different, they are not a sponsor, they're a outside competitor feeding off somebody else's convention, As much as I hate to say this, it's not right and shows NO class at all.

I am NO fan of Rick and Howard, I think these two are driven by greed rather than there desire to promote the domain industry. The fees they charge are outrageous, and so is there pathetic reasoning. I don't feel sorry for them at all, I'm glad there is competition out there, I welcome it! I just DON'T agree how DS is going about it....my 2 cents.

DomainSponsor is a sponsor of Domain Jam NYC, it was not their concept, we went to them looking for financial backing as we did with other companies.

That email Rick and Howard sent out was over the top and is a reflection of a personal grudge they have against DS.

The event was conceived, planned, organized and managed by my business partner and I.

 

[bdss]

It's a natural evolution of trade shows. Early on the conference has more value to attendees than vendors. Eventually the crowd grows large enough that the value proposition changes: The attendees already know the vendors, but the vendors have opportunity to pick up new customers. So now the vendors get more value than the attendees. The price structure should change to reflect that. If TRAFFIC doesn't do it, someone else will. And then it will be game over for TRAFFIC.

Duckinla and Doc Com like your reasoning..glad to see that people understand the concept of how indutry conferences work and especially when the industry is in its infancy. People its a volume game...we have already gone mainstream and left behind the the niche of 400-500 people running an industry ....all these things are the cost of doing business and especially being first in the business.....its not a school and nor the domainers are your students to ask them to comply to your rules.
most of the major corporations to prevent competiton have multiple brands in the market competing with each other....I guess now people would know why they do it.

Raider agree to your point that its a cheeky way to do it ...but I read the a comment on another forum from the organiser of the party ..and if that is true I would say its not a cheeky way of doing things.

I just hope there is more competiton it will benefit the domainers to a great extent.

 

[Deleted member 5660]

Its a free market for an industry that benefits from pornography and tm typos its funny that this is outrageous IMO

Exactly. Reminds me of one of my favorite UDRP cases:

http://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/decisions/html/2003/d2003-0546.html

 

[katherine]

...
One of the things that we have tried to do (and i believe successfully) is to raise the ethical bar for domainers so that our industry will be looked upon favorably by others.
...

What does that mean ?
Just because I do not take part does not mean I feel like I have lower ethics than anybody else.
Holier-than-thou will only get you so far.

Seems to me, some people are more interested in keeping the "good old boy" network going, rather than taking the domain business as a whole to the next level(s).

Bingo.
Besides all those who are not admitted at the private party are not going to wait at the door forever. And I'm not condoning what DS is doing although there are 2 sides to a story :-#:

 

[Raider]

DomainSponsor is a sponsor of Domain Jam NYC, it was not their concept, we went to them looking for financial backing as we did with other companies.

I dont think it matters who it is, that fact is your drawing attendees from another convention to your own gathering of the same industry, Why not hold this in S.Cal or Los Angeles where your located? What your doing is a planned and calculated event that revolves around there convention, and that in my opinion is unethical...This is something a bottom feeder would do.

 

[DNWizardX9]

I dont think it matters who it is, that fact is your drawing attendees from another convention to your own gathering of the same industry, Why not hold this in S.Cal or Los Angeles where your located? What your doing is a planned and calculated event that revolves around there convention, and that in my opinion is unethical...This is something a bottom feeder would do.

so T.R.A.F.F.I.C. owns NYC during the conference week? ...yawn.....

 

[Fearless]

Bad blood and an overreaction.

 

[gmac17]

Are there any others who will be in NY - either for the conference or for work who want to get together and have a few beers that night (or another night)? I live here and would be glad to meet up with a group of people. We can hit some hidden 200 year old really cool bars, or some new / upscale places depending on what people want to do.

Let me know and I'll be glad to set things in motion...just hope I'm allowed to buy beers in the city during the same week as TRAFFIC....

gmac

 

[Tia Wood]

I am NO fan of Rick and Howard, I think these two are driven by greed rather than there desire to promote the domain industry.

Actually, Rick is not like that at all. Just because he's successful does not make him "greedy". A lot goes into T.R.A.F.F.I.C, more than you know. He's also involved in other things (which don't make a profit btw) to help domainers.

 

[A D]

Are there any others who will be in NY - either for the conference or for work who want to get together and have a few beers that night (or another night)? I live here and would be glad to meet up with a group of people. We can hit some hidden 200 year old really cool bars, or some new / upscale places depending on what people want to do.

Let me know and I'll be glad to set things in motion...just hope I'm allowed to buy beers in the city during the same week as TRAFFIC....

gmac

For the record, I will be there if anyone is bored and wants to meet.

-=DCG=-

 

[GAMEFINEST]

Can anyone tell me why is it so expensive to attend the show? if it was cheaper it would attract more buyers...theyre making a killing just by ticket sales...

 

[SuccessClick]

It's a natural evolution of trade shows. Early on the conference has more value to attendees than vendors. Eventually the crowd grows large enough that the value proposition changes: The attendees already know the vendors, but the vendors have opportunity to pick up new customers. So now the vendors get more value than the attendees. The price structure should change to reflect that. If TRAFFIC doesn't do it, someone else will. And then it will be game over for TRAFFIC.

You mean, as in the Domain Roundtable Conference 2007 allowing FREE attendance to anyone on the last day of their conference for the live and silent auctions? We expect over 1000 people on that day. Does that sound feasible? We think so!!

Sorry to be such a plugging machine, but I think it's only fair since all this talk about the "other" conference is hogging the airwaves. The truth is, the DRT has 40 wide range topic sessions, a technologically advanced networking system, and a FREE final day of attendance for anyone to come to bid on the live or silent auctions, or just meet and greet everyone. THIS is a benefit for the attendees and sponsors alike.:yes:

Can anyone tell me why is it so expensive to attend the show? if it was cheaper it would attract more buyers...theyre making a killing just by ticket sales...

Usually the ticket prices reflect the food functions, the various multiple seminars (which most companies charge $300 for a 2 hour seminar), room block guarantees, and the time and upfront money it takes to produce the show. It costs over $100k to just get the show off the ground, and that's before the event kicks in. Then the costs really start piling up. However, most attendees at any of these domain conferences always leave with the feeling that they've invested their money well and learned alot, had fun, met the right people to advance their investments in domains. I've never heard a complaint yet from an attendee.

There are expectations of room block minimums placed upon the promoter of the event by the venue (the hotel). If the promoter doesn't bring in the expected attendees booking rooms for the three days of the event, then the promoter has to PAY the hotel the difference. Additionally, the food costs, rental costs of basic items like electrical strips and corkage fees on water bottles, on top of a mandatory 20% service fee charge on all items, it's a lot more expensive and scary than everyone thinks. Just the overall logistics of administrating the event is costly and time consuming. Try and throw a dinner party or birthday party for just 30 people and see what that's like. Multiple that effort 100 times, and you have a conference. LOL

Hope this dispels the myths that millions of dollars are being made from these conferences. They serve a purpose, and that is to benefit the sponsors and the attendees to do business that makes them all great profits!

 

[Rubber Duck]

No real surprises here. Most of the ground has been covered before.

Rick is no Guru, if he were he should have seen all this developing.

He has his own narrow view of domaining which is largely driven by his own personal agendas, and is as much an educator as Joseph Goebbels.

 

[Seraphim]

No real surprises here. Most of the ground has been covered before.

Rick is no Guru, if he were he should have seen all this developing.

He has his own narrow view of domaining which is largely driven by his own personal agendas, and is as much an educator as Joseph Goebbels.

Ouch.

 

[Gerry]

For the record, I will be there if anyone is bored and wants to meet.

-=DCG=-

At which party? at which bar? is there a budget for food or just drink?

Will you be the guy with two girls on each arm? If so, do you have a diamond stud in the left ear?

Oops, wait a minute...that's Bob Parsons.

Hope this dispels the myths that millions of dollars are being made from these conferences. They serve a purpose, and that is to benefit the sponsors and the attendees to do business that makes them all great profits!

Stephen, I hope that is not how the comments were taken.

Nearly every major trade show or conference or seminar I have attended, yes there is an attendance fee. Typically in a timed structure...pay by this date and it is this much (less) but wait too long and it is this much (more).

Usually the attendees pay a reasonable fee because they typically also pay for the hotel, transportation, etc as to be expected.

But it is the vendors that pay a heftier fee for set up. Or even underwriting the show.

THEY are the ones who can truly reap the benefits. Yes, we as the attendees will gain the benefit of increased knowledge and marketing. But the registrars, parking companies, software and hardware manufacturers...they are the one who stand to make a respectable return on their investment.

Want to talk about new technology? Don't talk about it...invite Sun, MicroSoft, RedHat, Samsung, Nokia. Want to talk about being productive? Invite guests that show you how to make a site, how to be productive...MacroMedia, Adobe, Quark.

It is not just about domaining. Domaining DOES NOT exist without computers, technology, and advancements. Where are the PDA, UMPC, Mobile providers?

Where is ICANN and all its offshoots that oversee the many varied extensions. Why should I buy HP over Sony?

This is or should be just as much as a technology jolt as it is about domaining and registrars and parking.

And if the technology companies and all these organizations like T.R.A.F.F.I.C, DRP, and the registrars can not see this, then there is a serious disconnect somewhere along the way.

One plainly does not exist with out the other. One plainly does not advance with out the other.

 

[Rubber Duck]

The technophobes a TRAFFICS cannot even cope with the concept of domaining in more than one language!

 

[Gerry]

The technophobes a TRAFFICS cannot even cope with the concept of domaining in more than one language!

EGADS! Wheeze in twubble.

 

[Raider]

Actually, Rick is not like that at all. Just because he's successful does not make him "greedy". A lot goes into T.R.A.F.F.I.C, more than you know. He's also involved in other things (which don't make a profit btw) to help domainers.

I dont have a problem with people who are successful, I'm not the envious type. If you look at the reasoning Rick uses to justify the high admission and the number of conventions they organize every year, I would say that "greed" is the driving force behind it, it's becoming less about promoting the industry a more about how much money they can make. I've been to enough trade shows to know what goes into them, it's a lot of work as you say, however TRAFFIC can easily reduce admission and still make a substantial profit, one way is by doing what Duckinla suggested, charge more to the vendors thereby reducing admission to draw more attendees. I like what Domain Roundtable is doing by offering free admission to there Live or silent auctions, will TRAFFIC follow? I doubt it. We the sellers will continue to pay $500 big ones to monitor our own domains in silent, as if 15% commission is not enough.

When I attended Internext, Rick spoke and put his foot in his mouth yet again...he said that if domainers are not willing to spend $5K-$10K to attend one of his tradeshows, they are quote "Time Wasters" the reasoning he uses is that if attendees pay this amount, they will come to the conference to do business and not waste time, However, if we use the 10K figure, attendees are already dishing out $7500 in expenses, I would think this alone would be enough incentive for attendees wanting to do business.

Usually the ticket prices reflect the food functions

Yes, I hear they go overboard on the food, But please, save the French desert for some other event, If I want Chocolate mousse, I'll buy it at the hotel buffet and risk getting an antler stuck in my throat... lol