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This is a discussion about the domain name registrar/company Epik.

404

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I haven't been using Epik at all since the hack/breach. This week however I spotted something on their daily diamonds of interest to me.

Purchased the name, only to find out they will not allow you to transfer out the name. Anyone else having the same experience?
 
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aleksey.k

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It seems asking them directly is the best way to get the issue fixed, isn't it? @Epik
 

amplify

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If I had to guess, it's the 60-day lock that would be imposed whether you got something from DropCatch drops or GoDaddy expiring auctions.
Q: Can ICANN lift the 60-day lock on domains?
A: No, ICANN does not place, nor can it lift a 60-day lock on domain names. Registrars must impose a lock that will prevent any transfer to another registrar for sixty (60) days following a change to a registrant's information. Registrars may (but are not required to) allow registrants to opt out of the 60-day lock prior to the change of registrant request. Contact your registrar to see if they will allow you to opt out of the 60-day lock period.
 

404

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It seems asking them directly is the best way to get the issue fixed, isn't it? @Epik
Yes, I did. Have done so in the past as well, no issues getting rid of locks at all usually. Just asked and they'd fix me up.

Curious if policy changed or something. They refer to their TOS/ICANN which is fine albeit outdated policy. Just checking in to see what other people are experiencing.

If I had to guess, it's the 60-day lock that would be imposed whether you got something from DropCatch drops or GoDaddy expiring auctions.


Yes. Difference being, when you catch a domain it becomes a new registration. ICANN will lock those at the registry level.

Locking down (not newly registered) domains for 60 days after a registrant change/push is up to the registrar. Just about any notable registrar I use does not lock down your names after a registrant change/push. Some do it for a shorter period on an aftermarket purchase though, like Dynadot. But even GoDaddy locks your name for just 10 days after a push.

60 days is insanely annoying, specifically when you're at Epik as my buyers usually want to transfer to a registrar of their preference.

Pushing is always possible but as I prefer Dan for escrow that's not an option.besides, when pushed the buyer will get his domain locked down for another 60 days again.

I find it strange practice when you buy a domain directly from a registrar, with a good markup for them. For me it's about control. I don't like having limited options.

The usual response from registrars who are still using this old (<2016) ICANN policy is that it's a security measure. Security if fine, lock it down, but at least have the option to unlock it on request when a client requests you to do so.

Maybe I should just reconsider using Epik at all.
 

amplify

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Some do it for a shorter period on an aftermarket purchase though, like Dynadot. But even GoDaddy locks your name for just 10 days after a push.
I suppose we'll just have to wait to see what policy @Epik has in place, and why.
Maybe I should just reconsider using Epik at all.
I get your frustration, but this is kind of ridiculous to say. I don't have an account at many registrars, but you bet your bottom dollar that I would get one anywhere to wait out the transfer policy if the spread was nice enough.
 

404

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I suppose we'll just have to wait to see what policy @Epik has in place, and why.

I get your frustration, but this is kind of ridiculous to say. I don't have an account at many registrars, but you bet your bottom dollar that I would get one anywhere to wait out the transfer policy if the spread was nice enough.
Yeah, I agree. If the opportunity is there... It's the same with the likes of networksolutions. You learn to live with it.

It's all about time management though. I could spend my time on research instead. Whenever I'm wasting time on technicalities that's money lost imo.
 

amplify

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networksolutions
My draft had this especially but I wanted to be more inclusive as well. 😄

Hope to hear the policy myself. Haven't had issues with a transfer as I met the 60 day period.
 

404

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Likely the 60-day ICANN lock @404.

Most definitely not. The lock is decided upon by the registrar. ICANN/registry has nothing to do with it.

As per ICANN regulations:
Mandatory lock < 2016 > lock decided upon by registrar.

There is a common misconception that whenever you transfer or make an ownership change ICANN/registry will lock your domain. They don't, hence most registrars, unlike some with an archaic mo, will not.

Dynadot, Namecheap, GoDaddy, Namesilo, Namebright won't or have an opt out, just to name a few. (Some may have limitations after transfers actually).

Some have an internal locking procedure for pushes, aftermarket purchases and what else, but those are decided upon by the registrar you're using and hardly ever add up to 60 days of holding your domain hostage. Not taking into account caught domains obviously, as those will always come with a 60 day locking procedure by ICANN/registry as they're basically new registrations. (GTLDs that is, it is different with some new TLDS and ccTLDS).

Any registrar referring to ICANN for these kinds of locks could really do with some catching up... These policies have been in place for a while now. I expect my registrar to be aware of that as it's part of their job and what I'm paying them for.
 

ncabete

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Hello,

To clear up, there are some 60-days transfer locks which are applied at the registry level and it's application depends entirely on the registry. Registrars, on the other hand, MAY or MAY NOT also apply locks according to ICANN:

(...) Registrars must impose a lock that will prevent any transfer to another registrar for sixty (60) days following a change to a registrant's information. Registrars may (but are not required to) allow registrants to opt out of the 60-day lock prior to the change of registrant request. Contact your registrar to see if they will allow you to opt out of the 60-day lock period (...)

At Epik, changing your WHOIS information does not trigger a lock, but if your domain suffers from an ownership change recently (or a transfer in, even if the owner didn't change) - a 60-day transfer locks gets enacted. This lock MAY or MAY NOT be waived, whether due to reasons beyond Epik or due to internal policies (which our Terms of Service state).

Transfer locks historically exist to stop stolen domains from registrar hopping, however they also pose a liability for the registrar that decides to waive them, and although we are, at times, flexible when it comes to waiving locks (that we can), that's an exception to the rule and not the rule, and we're not able to fulfill that every time for every domain.

Internal pushes are not subject to 60-day transfer locks, which means a domain can be pushed even if it's within the 60-day transfer lock - to some, that may be a solution.

Hope this brings in more clarity.
 

404

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First off all, thank you for chiming in.

Registrars may (but are not required to) allow registrants to opt out of the 60-day lock prior to the change of registrant request.

Exactly the point. It is epiks own choice to enforce locks on transfers/ownership change. Like a lot of registrars, whenever you ask support they tell you it's a registry lock and it's mandatory as per ICANN regulations. It's not, as you just pointed out.

Glad you cleared up that Epik enforces these locks whereas ICANN leaves registrants room to opt out as long as the registrar will present that option.

At Epik, changing your WHOIS information does not trigger a lock, but if your domain suffers from an ownership change recently (or a transfer in, even if the owner didn't change) - a 60-day transfer locks gets enacted. This lock MAY or MAY NOT be waived, whether due to reasons beyond Epik or due to internal policies (which our Terms of Service state).
So basically what you're saying is that because of your TOS you reserve the right denying a transfer once a domain is either pushed to your account or transferred in recently.

Again, it's due to a registrars own policy as a registry will allow it, as long as the registrant/registrars chooses to opt out of locking down the domain.

Transfer locks historically exist to stop stolen domains from registrar hopping, however they also pose a liability for the registrar that decides to waive them, and although we are, at times, flexible when it comes to waiving locks (that we can), that's an exception to the rule and not the rule, and we're not able to fulfill that every time for every domain.

Thanks for clearing that up. And for security reasons it may actually make sense, in case a domain is stolen.

When it's all too obvious a domains was not stolen, owned by Epik and bought by a client, what reason is there to deny a transfer?

Since you have no problem selling a domain, pocketing a renewal and markup, why restrict the new owner in its usage of the legally owned property?

To be clear, we're not talking about a domain transferred but one owned by Epik, bought at Epik and remained at Epik. It just doesn't make sense.

You either enforce a policy, or you don't.

While discussing this anyway, somewhat related. I've seen people make mention of you extending the lock period to 62 days. What's up with that? It's against ICANN policy and could land you guys in a whole new world of trouble.
 

ncabete

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First off all, thank you for chiming in.

When it's all too obvious a domains was not stolen, owned by Epik and bought by a client, what reason is there to deny a transfer?

Since you have no problem selling a domain, pocketing a renewal and markup, why restrict the new owner in its usage of the legally owned property?

To be clear, we're not talking about a domain transferred but one owned by Epik, bought at Epik and remained at Epik. It just doesn't make sense.

You either enforce a policy, or you don't.

While discussing this anyway, somewhat related. I've seen people make mention of you extending the lock period to 62 days. What's up with that? It's against ICANN policy and could land you guys in a whole new world of trouble.
It isn't as straightforward as it appears to be, unfortunately not every online purchase is made using the rightful credit card owner, which creates a liability for every merchant, including registrars. No business wants to end up without the funds and the asset they sold, thus, a lot happens behind the scene when it comes to making the decision to uphold (or not) the Terms of Service. One of the great things of not being a big corporate is that we can review these cases on a case by case basis instead of 100% enforcing it.

In regards to extending the lock period to 62 days, it is personally the first time that I am hearing about such. I did look up a domain that landed today at Epik, and the release date of the lock is 2022-01-13 which is in fact 60 days from today (UTC).

Although I do not quite know how the calculation is made in terms of code (days vs hours), I could picture that there can be some confusion when it comes to different timezones, though if that's the case, it wouldn't be by 2 days, at max, by a couple of hours (that could eventually mean 1 "day").

Lastly, if both the buyer and the seller have gone through KYC AND/OR are at least established Epik customers, the decision to waive the lock may be easier.
 

404

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It isn't as straightforward as it appears to be, unfortunately not every online purchase is made using the rightful credit card owner, which creates a liability for every merchant, including registrars. No business wants to end up without the funds and the asset they sold, thus, a lot happens behind the scene when it comes to making the decision to uphold (or not) the Terms of Service. One of the great things of not being a big corporate is that we can review these cases on a case by case basis instead of 100% enforcing it.

In regards to extending the lock period to 62 days, it is personally the first time that I am hearing about such. I did look up a domain that landed today at Epik, and the release date of the lock is 2022-01-13 which is in fact 60 days from today (UTC).

Although I do not quite know how the calculation is made in terms of code (days vs hours), I could picture that there can be some confusion when it comes to different timezones, though if that's the case, it wouldn't be by 2 days, at max, by a couple of hours (that could eventually mean 1 "day").

Lastly, if both the buyer and the seller have gone through KYC AND/OR are at least established Epik customers, the decision to waive the lock may be easier.

I understand where you guys are coming from but I don't buy the argument. Other registrars allow it so it just comes down to epiks risk assessment. I get it, small time registrar, can't take much risk.

That being said. Just for info, I can't even be bothered anymore to get my own issue fixed at this point. Have always been using Cc & PP in my own name. Fully ID verified by your team (which I regret given recent events).

Epik has been positioning themselves as a domainer friendly registrar over the years, you have huge domainer portfolios under management. I'm quite disappointed that the one registrar I tried to build a personal relationship with turned into... The likes of netsol.

As for the 60 days... I noticed it's being discussed a lot on NP by highly trusted and experienced domainers/members. Might be worth it to lurk a bit over there.

Edit: don't take the complaint personally. You're just doing your job, can't change the direction the company is heading in. Appreciate you taking the time to engage!
 
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