.eu fiasco - help needed with article please

[Azam.net]

I'm a journalist and writing an article on the .eu debacle. The shambolic way so many things were handled really needs to be publicised. I was wondering if you could help me please.

I know a few cases of people registering absurd company names to acquire .eus in the Sunrise phase, such as Rus & Sia and San & Marino.

There were a few others which were totally ridiculous like (made this one up) d&o&m&a&i&n&s but now I can't find where I read about those.

Could you please let me know of the most ridiculous ones you came across?

Also, if anybody's got anything to say about how the landrush was handled, please PM me or post here and let me know if I can use your name and details or whether you'd prefer to remain anonymous. No obscenities please - I can't use those

Thank you.

 

[sasquatch]

I was the one who had big problem with the way Eurid allowed bogus TM's as evidence of prior use, but they specifically and publicly stated for the record that they were unable to comment on TM procedures of member states:

"EURid cannot comment on the effectiveness of the trademark laws and the work of the trademark offices in Europe"

http://www.eurid.eu/en/general/news/eurid-comments-on-the-issue-of-generic-domain-names

They weren't the ones who issued those TM's in the first place, so your beef should be with TM laws and TM offices in Benelux, and not with the Eurid.

"...It has been suggested that the Sunrise rules should have included a cut off date so that trademarks, for instance, needed to be registered before a certain date to be a valid prior right for a Sunrise application. During the preparatory work, extensive consultations between EURid, the validation agent for the phased registration period (PricewaterhouseCoopers, PwC), and the intellectual property community took place, in which all aspects of the sunrise rules were discussed, including the implementation of a “registration cut off date” for accepting registered trademarks.

A large majority did not want to accept such a limitation, not only because there is no support for it in the PPR (Public Policy Rules,) but also because it would disadvantage new companies or new initiatives within existing companies. That this would allow some people to register “popular” or “generic” names was considered a minor problem since the requested domain names would still need to be protected by an intellectual property right and the main objective of the Sunrise period i.e. to protect those with a prior right, would certainly be achieved..."

http://www.eurid.eu/en/general/news/eurid-comments-on-the-issue-of-generic-domain-names

 

[Azam.net]

Thanks for that. I appreciate your viewpoint, though I disagree. There were measures that EURid could have set in place to ensure the right people got the right domains and there is no justification for them giving the greenlight to absurd trademarks.

It's a bit basic because it is targeted towards people who are not experts on domain names, but here is my article. Had a zillion pressing things to do, but I wanted to play my part in publicising this fiasco.

 

[TECK]

Do you really think EU will change anything related to any registration process? It's to late now, things cannot be reversed. It's all true what you said in the article, but I want to see if anything will be done related to this...
Do you really think EU will redo one more time all registrations? I don't think so.

It's all finished, the people with money will always win, there is no way to change anything about it... it's the way things are.
Myself, I lost many domains (more exacly all) with GoDaddy... the biggest registrar as you state... and they have trouble refunding me my money.
What do you say about this?
However, I got 2 of them with an europeean registrar.

 

[Azam.net]

Yes, Godaddy have handled the process abysmally. Their support staff don't know the first thing about the .eu domain name registration process during the landrush phase. When I rang them just now they were trying to tell me that the landrush had started at midnight GMT, that they were still in the process of sending in their customer's applications, and that it would be a few days before they heard back from EURid. Two staff members told me that. All nonsense of course.

But, whether we like it or not, they are the world's biggest registrar and I would recommend them for future .eu registrations, which will be as straightforward as registering a .us and in which Godaddy won't have the opportunity to screw up.

I'm not happy about the way they handled the .eu process. I lost many domains because of it like you.

You mentioned that you are having trouble getting a refund? Please could you let us know how? I'm upset because GD have told me they won't give a full refund even though it said clearly on their site that they would pay back customers the full amount for .eu domain names they didn't manage to acquire.

 

[TECK]

They will give a full refund, it's stated in their agreement:
http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/legal_agreements/show_doc.asp?se=+&pageid=REG_SA

7. restriction of services; right of refusal
...
In the event Go Daddy refuses a registration or deletes an existing registration during the first thirty (30) days after registration, You will receive a refund of any fees paid to Go Daddy in connection with the registration either being canceled or refused.
...

I showed this to the rep... and after discussing with his superviser, they stated that they will refund the money.
When? We don't know.
Btw, I'm in the process of moving all the domains to another registrar.

 

[italiandragon]

Pool.com and many others AUCTIONED names with more than 1 application despite this was AGAINST Eurid rules.

To get the most money from it, POOL created 400 companies to catch everything in the first minute. Legal but unfair.

What about the trademark claimed on the word SHIT ?

 

[TECK]

Let me ask you this question, dragon... if you had the money, would you do the same... or stick with the rules?
First, Pool didn't nothing wrong, technically. They sell domains, like you.
If someone complains about the domain name that is auctioned, it's very simple to solve the trouble. They will say that it was purchased by them from the original registrar and they can do whatever they want with it. Case closed.
The same way you would do with your priceless domain... you register it then you want to sell it for 1 million dollars, right?
You noticed that Pool does not actually register domains? Their armada or sub-registrars does.
So what's the difference between them and you, beside that they are a 20 million dollars business per year? None.
Everybody wants to make money with domains, I want to see a single member here who says it does it for free.

Cheers.

PS. You should really recover from the domain losses you have. It's over, many people lost good names due to bad decissions. No need to blame it on people with experience... they are good and we are really bad. I lost 130 domains with GD. That says it all.

 

[David G]

Yes, Godaddy have handled the process abysmally.

The .eu is one more example out of many showing how GD and WW have declined over the past few yrs vs their early days when they were much better. My acct executive knew nothing about the rules, process or release date, in fact he did not even know what month, let alone the date.

He did promise a full refund for all failed eu registrations. Just found this on the website "...You acknowledge and agree that the submitting of a "Sunrise or General Pre-registration Application" does not ensure that a domain name shall be successfully awarded or registered. In the event that an application does not result in a successful registration, the registration fee shall be refunded.

One other issue, does anyone know how Pool.com found out they could get cheap and quick Benelux trademarks and got all those amazing names thru their agent, with the many recent TM applications (as recently as March from what I hear) but no one else seemed to know about it being possible? It would seem to me that is the biggest scandal issue of them all since the best names were reg'd by them and they had the market almost to themselves from what it appears.

 

[Giembo]

I had my name and surname registered by the same company!! (a greek (probably) off-shore company)

Funny thing is that the company has registered the two .eus with two different registrars, but even though those registrars seem to be Eurid-accredited none of those appear to have a web site!!

Clearly my name & surname were picked up with a software, so i'm wondering if there's anyone out there who has experienced the same....

 

[denny007]

U would not call 1.3M domains registered after opening a "fiasco".

What Eurid did wrong was the TM process. They should make an auction for any domain and the TM claims fix later in WIPO-arbitration-like style. Eurid could this way make a lot of money and could make lower pricing for first years with this money.

But one can not expect from EU bureucrats anything business-creative, all state-owned enterprises suck...

 

[Wot]

Bob Parsons speaks :

http://www.bobparsons.com/EULandrushFiasco.html

We should make a huge UNITED push to address these issues

 

[movil]

Cool article (Bob Parsons)
Thanks for posting the link Wot. Now I understand things better.

 

[Giembo]

Bob Parsons speaks :

http://www.bobparsons.com/EULandrushFiasco.html

We should make a huge UNITED push to address these issues

thanks for posting!
that explained the reason why some registrars don't have a web site!
they seem to be "company X's" phantoms....

 

[TECK]

One other issue, does anyone know how Pool.com found out they could get cheap and quick Benelux trademarks and got all those amazing names thru their agent, with the many recent TM applications (as recently as March from what I hear) but no one else seemed to know about it being possible? It would seem to me that is the biggest scandal issue of them all since the best names were reg'd by them and they had the market almost to themselves from what it appears.

All they did probably is to search wikipedia.org site. There you find all the information you want how to register a trademak in Europe.
They had all the time in the world to prepare for this event... from April 2005 to December 2005 it's a very long time. Not to mention the contacts they have all over the places.
As I mentioned before, momentous.ca (Pool owner) make in average 30 millions dollars/year. I guess they have the time and resources to find all the good things before we do.

 

[Azam.net]

Well done Bob! I contacted a few people at Godaddy asking them to get Bob Parsons to write about it. Didn't think he would, but respect to him for doing so. How many CEOs do you get like that?

 

[TECK]

Bob Parsons speaks :
http://www.bobparsons.com/EULandrushFiasco.html
We should make a huge UNITED push to address these issues

Are you guys serious about this united thing? Nothing will be done, I'm positive about it.
Parson is dreaming... not to mention that is bullshiting people, open. From his article:

We saw this whole thing coming.
Early on, we saw this whole scam coming. We tried to warn the EURid registry that their landrush process was problematic and that there was a large potential for abuse. These warnings fell on deaf ears. There have since been complaints filed by dozens of other legitimate registrars about this process. These complaints have been so numerous that the EURid registry has stopped responding to them. They seem to have simply hunkered down for the storm.

Bob, if you saw everything comming, why you did not invest in new registrars, like everyone else, in order to grab names and make millions after? You've got more the 10 gees, right? Please don't act like a saint, you are in the money making business, not charity one. I noticed Bob that you also started registering trademarks as of March 19th and applied to EUid under the name "Roussos", in order to secure for yourself good names... wow, you saw it all comming. Let's take a look at events.eu (one of many I saw), for example and let us all know why you wanted to grab those names for yourself since you are a straight guy?

What Parson tries to do is cover his company from the very bad organisation they had during the landrush. That's all.
Technical failures, unprepared network, lack of knowlegde from his rep staff are only few of the catastrofic results of the GD landrush event.

Let me give you an example guys:
Their staff doesn't even use the EUid whois database to check if the domain is available. Several reps told me that the domains I ordered are still in pending application status, so there is a chance I can get them. LOL, they are registered like a rock to other people. It was a surprise to them when I mentioned about whois.eu, they were starring at the registered status and mumble incoherent words, with no explanations available.

So, one more time, dream on Bob Parson with your nice ideas, you should it prepare your company for such an important event, instead of trying to execuse yourself for the lack of maturity your company prove.

 

[Giembo]

however the argument remains that .eus were inefficiently allocated and this will slow down the mass awareness of the .eu extension...

It will take a lot more time to see those .eus developed if those who registered a lot of good ones thanks to their market power start speculating a lot on them.
If a .eu costs a lot it will take a lot more time to break-even and consequently lots of investors will divert their financial resources to other services other than buying a good name (ex: paying for good content and/or professional SEO).

The less .eus are developed the slower the "average person" (somebody who's not in the industry, like probably your dad) will bump into an .eu and know about it

.eus will have their future but in the very long-run

 

[B3n]

This needs to be fixed, and we need to get the word out.

http://digg.com/links/The_.EU_Landrush_Fiasco
http://registrar.eurid.eu/en/shared/about/contactUs.html
http://www.pm.gov.uk/output/page821.asp
http://www.europarl.eu.int/parliament/public/staticDisplay.do?id=49&language=EN
https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/about.asp?se=+&ci=290

 

[teamwork]

May I add this to the discussion.

In terms of speculation, I can say that you take some risks as an investor. And you try to find all possible ways to improve your position in the terms the system provides you. I think that's the way it works not in domains but in whole life.

If so many big guys took the lead and risk their money (for 400 registrars is 4 million Euros don't forget that, or the other s with TMs), and we are all complaining ' oh these guys cheated, oh this is unfair, oh this is wrong' then I think, with all respect, we try to find excuses. And I believe that many in here (I am not accusing this, I include myself ) try to make money for all this domain stuff. So why is it fair to grab a typo domain , why is it fair to grab various domains and warehousing and then resell it to others?Why is it fair to grab domains in general?

Since .eu was a new land, we thought that we will all sit side by side, and when the game would start we all be trying to get as many as possible good pieces of land. To do what? To earn sometime more money than we invested.That's what the big guys did also.

I am sure most of us (not all) including myself , grabbed some or many domains. What for ? for development and possible reselling gains. We took a risk. For others is 50$, for others is 2k for others might be 20-50k. For the big guys is in millions.

The TM issue I believe clearly that is a Benelux TM office issue. But how can you blame a TM office because they are doing registrations in 1 day? All around europe we complain because it's so difficult some times to open a new company. It takes days. In uk it takes hours. Should we blame companies house for that?

In Europe we introduced Euro currency some time ago. Inflation has increased drammatically since then in countries with low currency (spain, italy, greece etc). We blame EU for that. Did they know that? NO. The same with Eurid. Why should they have special treatment for Benelux TMs? Did they know that? I am sure they didn't. Or when they were planning the .eu, they couldn't think of this kind of activities, or workarounds as I call them.

You know offshore companies. Many have one and i am sure even here some uses them. The system see some benefits in the existance of these. But it's clear. These are paradise for not paying taxes. It's not fair for normal taxpayers like most of us, but nobody can say that you can not use it yourself.

Anyway, to not take it longer. Whoever plays this game has to be patient, act smart and should willing to take the risk. I don't buy the fact that we are just waiting with 20$ investment to grab an opportunity to earn millions. If that is we are waiting for then we should know that we are gambling and then we should also know that we have limited chances. The big guys just played different . Increased their chances, by investing a lot more. Fair or not that's life. And I will never see anybody to say that you cannot register a TM inBenelux, or nobody will say that you can't invest in more than 2 or 3 or 100 registrars. It's not written anywhere.

So let's not blame everybody because the outcome was not that we were expecting.

Stay cool and see what is in front. It was a good lesson for the future anyway. With or withought speculation, I believe that we'll see millions of registration in the long run. WHy? Why not? If I consider .de in 9 millions and .co.uk in 4 millions, then yes, with a population of 450 millions , everything is possible. And in no way I 'll measure the reselling value with the number of registrations. That might be a mistake.

And I would kindly ask for all of us that are saying there is no future of .eu and the value will flatten after 1-2 years with massive drops (result of no success by then) , if by the way have some backorders in pool for .eu auctioning just in case we grab something good from the domains they got.

All these with kind respect to each one individual on this forum.