closed FiveSquare (dot) com

[EffectiveNames.com]

Never challenge Greeks and Irish in a bar fight. The barman will lose all his drink stash.

I apologize for the post that took aim at your nationality, my buttons got pushed a bit too far.

No worries.

Do you think we should request thread deletion?

By the way, the drinking thing is a bit of a myth too - a lot of Irish do like to drink, but we have a lot of abstainers too. Per head of population, we actually drink less than the British. Living in Scotland, I can also tell you that we tend to be happy drunks, I never saw a bar fight in 17 years of living in Ireland, the Scots and English are far more aggressive - but good fun too, if you avoid the idiots.

 

[discobull]

At the end of the day, the price is going to be determined by how motivated they are to get the domain and how much money they have to spend. You might be able to get a sense of their wealth, but their motivation is going to be tougher to gauge. I wouldn't be overly concerned about selling it at a "fair price" or the "right price". What you're shooting for is getting the most money out of these people that you can possibly get and nobody here can tell you what that is. I might be wrong, but from my perspective, this is not a domain for which you are going to find tons of demand so if I were you I'd do my best to sell the thing to this buyer for whatever I can get.

If it was me, I wouldn't name a price, I'd solicit an offer and try to negotiate things up from there. I'd push for a higher price no matter what they say, but do it in such a way that the door is always kept open for further discussion. For example, I wouldn't say "thanks but I'm going to pass", I'd say "Thanks for the offer. That's quite a bit less than I think I can get for it. Are you able to go higher?" or something along those lines. Then when you agree on a price, agree to the "low price" on condition that it happen within a given time-frame ( ie by tomorrow ). There are other ways to do it, but that would be my approach.

 

[EffectiveNames.com]

Thanks discobull, wise tactics, I'll certainly do my best to strike a good deal, although I also have no problem hanging on a few more years for the right buyer if these guys aren't willing to pay a reasonable amount.

 

[katherine]

Some relevant (or not) dates:

Domain Name: FIVESQUARE.COM
Creation Date: 21-feb-2008

Domeinnaam	 5square.nl 
Datum registratie	 2007-06-05

Domeinnaam	 fivesquare.nl 
Datum registratie	 [B]2013-03-13[/B]

I have not kept track of with current market values[/I] and, therefore, I would be grateful to hear other estimates on the current value.

I am posting here in order to get a sense of current market conditions and, so, far, Biggie's post has been very useful.
...

as I said, I don't want to sell the domain for too much less than it is worth, it doesn't matter a damn what I personally think of the value of the domain, it is all about the current market.

Current market value is a fallacy. There is no benchmark really.
There is some sort of price range for certain types of domains like LLL but we are only talking reseller prices. Anything is possible with domains.

But brandables are tough to appraise. The value could be anything between zero and 5 figures. These names are less liquid but can command high prices to the right buyer. It seems that you might be dealing with the right buyer here.
Personally I think that type of domain has the potential to sell for low 5 figures in an ideal scenario. But I am not in your shoes. Only the buyer and the seller can dictate the price.
That will depend on a number of factors including their financial means, their motivation and your negotiation skills.

Now, keep in mind that just because they have a lot of money at their disposal, doesn't mean they will pay you a private jet.
Also, their buying the .com probably has to with brand consolidation and expansion of their activities internationally.

As long as your focus is on the Netherlands, .nl is fine. From my observation, .com is not popular in the Netherlands proper, .nl rules: 5M+ domains for 16M inhabitants.
So if they are looking to expand their business abroad, not having the .com can be a disadvantage. But if most of their business takes place in their home country, they can do without your domain.

The perceived value may also depend on whatever plans you had for the domain, because you must have registered the domain for a reason, good or bad I don't know.

However, just to clarify how the trademark system and, indeed, the UDRP rules apply, you cannot lose your domain because of a trademark that came into existence after your acquisition of it.

That isn't accurate. Just because your domain name predates the TM, doesn't mean you can use the domain in a way that would cause a TM violation.
Plenty of examples in UDRP.

 

[EffectiveNames.com]

Thank you for your insights Katherine.

I do understand that market value is a shaky concept with regard to domains, but I have found the 3 ballpark ranges suggested here extremely useful.

Yes, it will all come down to what they are willing to pay but at least, now, I have managed to work out what I am willing to accept, which is at least as important.

As long as your focus is on the Netherlands, .nl is fine. From my observation, .com is not popular in the Netherlands proper, .nl rules: 5M+ domains for 16M inhabitants.
So if they are looking to expand their business abroad, not having the .com can be a disadvantage. But if most of their business takes place in their home country, they can do without your domain.

From my years in The Netherlands, and now the UK, where many businesses use the .co.uk TLD, I'm aware that there is a tendency to misremember or to mistype national TLDs as .com. For most types of business, losing a few percentage points of website traffic is acceptable, but it becomes serious if the business deals in confidential matters (law, finance etc) and emails start going astray. In general, companies in both NL and UK go for the .com first, if available, and their national TLD second; despite national pride, .com is seen as bigger/more credible. I could imagine, though, that Iceland is different.

Of course, as you point out, it all comes down to the customers perceptions, they might not even be aware of such issues; again, they will ultimately have a value in mind and that overrides all else.

Just because your domain name predates the TM, doesn't mean you can use the domain in a way that would cause a TM violation. Plenty of examples in UDRP.

I didn't want to get into the minutia of it in that particular post but, yes, you are right, what I meant was that predating the mark rules out one of the 3 types of bad faith (that you registered the domain with prior knowledge of the mark) and a strict interpretation of the rules says that the complainant must prove bad faith on ALL three types.

Of course, the system is deeply corrupt and the rules are often bent to allow just two or even one type of bad faith IF the domain owner has not paid for a panel rather than single judge. So, what I mean is that predating the mark keeps you safe if you are also clear on the other two: that you haven't impersonated, passed off or in any way benefitted from confusion between their business and your domain, and you haven't shown bad faith by trying to sell it to them or, in a broader interpretation, offered it for sale anywhere.

A company could throw a case against you but they would be on very shaky ground if you are in the clear in all three categories, and they would not have a hope if you are also willing to pay for a panel.

 

[hugegrowth]

Wow, OP was just this morning and already 45 replies!

 

[hugegrowth]

Based on what I've skimmed over, and assuming all tm issues etc are clear, I'd say somewhere in the 10k to 15k range minimum. Have each partner throw in 3k and be done with it. From your OP there seems to be a few other potential end users, but how long would you have to wait if this sale doesn't go through?

Would be interested to hear the follow up on how this deal goes.

 

[discobull]

I do understand that market value is a shaky concept with regard to domains, but I have found the 3 ballpark ranges suggested here extremely useful.

Yes, it will all come down to what they are willing to pay but at least, now, I have managed to work out what I am willing to accept, which is at least as important.

Knowing what you're willing to accept is important provided the number you arrive it is based on solid analysis. Generally speaking there are 3 potential sources for buyers 1) domain resellers, 2) existing businesses, and 3) future start-ups. When I pass up an offer, I do so because I can identify/quantify a potential demand for the domain. I try my best to resist gut-based feelings about the "true value" of said domain and examine the existing market for it instead. If you don't sell it to this buyer, who can you identify that might be willing to pay what you think it's worth? I'd guess the likelihood of selling it to a domainer at your price is zilch, and, given the trademark concerns, the likelihood of coming across a future start-up that wants that domain is also not so great. So, that leaves you with existing businesses. Have you identified many companies that could use your domain? Of course, there's always the potential that you'll get lucky and Hollywood will come out with a blockbuster film named "fivesquare" or some other similar thing will happen, but short of that, I'd take a good hard look at what your real world options are before walking away from a deal with this company. I don't mean to sound negative, I'm just telling you how I'd approach things if I were in your shoes. Best of luck with it!

 

[DomainScoop.Com]

Note my second sentence... "The question is, will you get away with it?"

In actuality, NOTHING is stopping me from forming a corporation to the effect of Eight-Eleven Convenience Stores LLC, or starting a football team, and getting a bunch of "San Francisco 48ers" jerseys printed.

However, I'll probably be getting a call from a lawyer very soon, as a result of it.

The same way that I can go ahead and register faceboook.com (three o's), and point it to, say, myspace.com. I can do it... the consequences are another story.

In any case, addressing your concern about the value, somewhere in $x,xxx, in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned, Foursquare is over the hill, so you can only ride on their coattails for so long.

He is not asking for TM advice. All he is asking for is that he got an offer on the table and what should he pitch for the name. As of right now, I dont see any TM violations on the name.

Apart from having a domain and name a TEAM is entirely different IMO. When two companies are online and have two totally different business from each other and have nothing to interfere with each other, then you are totally missing the point of TM LAW, imo.

I would say if the company is solid, offer them mid x,xxx to low xx,xxx and see.

 

[Onward]

I have to say when I read the title...I thought of the scene in "there's something about Mary"...."7 minute Abs":

Hitchhiker: You heard of this thing, the 8-Minute Abs?
Ted: Yeah, sure, 8-Minute Abs. Yeah, the excercise video.
Hitchhiker: Yeah, this is going to blow that right out of the water. Listen to this: 7... Minute... Abs.
Ted: Right. Yes. OK, all right. I see where you're going.


That was my first reaction...I also thought of 6 hour energy...

But really, This is just a nice brandable domain name that certainly does not have to have any tie to the famous foursquare brand. It is not really special to me at all..but may be really special to a certain end user. If there is a certain end user who needs it badly - you can name your price and hope that one end user takes your price...I personally would not try to win the showcase showdown with this one as you may end up alienating a select enduser who wants the name....it really depends on how badly I want a sale though.

IMO - this domain name is a classic $69 drop from Namejet (lots of good domains are acquired at this level) I would say on the surface this domain name is worth about $2500 as a nice brandable...I think you can easily double that and maybe triple or quadruple that if you got someone needing it badly.