How Long Should We Wait before We Take Sedo to Court

[Netego]

I and some of my friends own a few domain names and we listed them on Sedo for sale, one of my friends listed as seller and Admin Contact. This is our first time dealing with Sedo and did not know they're such a bad company. Our domain name was sold and transfered to the buyer on Sep. 8, 2004 but so far we have not received the funds.

*** Aug. 29, 2004 (from Sedo)

"We pleased to inform you that the party interested in your domain name,
xxxxxxxxxx.com has accepted your offer of xxx Euro!
You and the buyer have now agreed to a binding contract for the sale of
this domain name.

Please click on the link below and log into your account in order to
initiate the transfer and take the first necessary steps in this process:"

*** Sep. 02, 2004

"Hello from Sedo!

Now that we have received the buyer's payment for this domain we have
instructed him to initiate the technical transfer. He will soon be
starting the transfer request via his registrar.

Once we confirm the changed of registrars and the WHOIS database
contains the buyer's information we will send the payment for the domain to
you from our escrow account.

Should you have any questions or require any assistance with the
technical transfer please feel free to contact me.

Best regards,"


The WHOIS record changed on Sep. 8, 2004 with the buyer's name as Registrant.

2 days after the transfer, Sedo sent us a Sales Agreement Form to sign, we made it clear to Sedo that we were no more in a legal position to sign that form since the buyer was already the owner. When we registered the name we did check that it was not a trademark in North America, but we were not sure if it was a trademark in Europe (the buyer is in Europe). We thought it was not wise to sign that form to pick up any liability that the new owner might have. We let Sedo know we were willing to take the name back if the buyer insist our signature on the Form.

*** Sep. 15, 2004

"Hello from Sedo!

You do not need to do anything but wait a few days until the transfer
has completely gone through. They can take up to 7 days depending on
the Registrars. Payment will go out soon. Please confirm once you
have received it.

Kind regards,"


"Hello from Sedo!

How should we send the funds? Paypal or wire transfer?

Kind regards,"

We replied that we would like the funds sent to our PayPal account. We waited but still no money came in.

*** Oct. 4, 2004

"Hello from Sedo! We are pleased to inform you that the transaction of
the domain xxxxxxxxxx.com was successful. The buyer is now listed as the
owner of the domain according to the WHOIS database.

Our accounts department has processed your credit note and the money
has left our escrow account. On average, bank transfers take between 4
and 7 business days to reach your account.

We hope you were satisfied with our services and look forward to
working with you in the future.

Best regards,"


Transaction History:

2004-08-29 Agreement reached
2004-08-29 We have invoiced the buyer for the sale of your domain. As soon as the payment reaches our escrow account we will inform you and begin the technical transfer.
2004-08-30 We have received the buyer's payment for your domain. We can now begin the technical transfer.
2004-08-30 Your domain is currently "LOCKED" by your registrar making a transfer impossible. Please remove this lock, or contact your registrar to have it removed, so that we can complete the transfer.
2004-09-02 The buyer has started transfer request. Please confirm the next transfer request from , or contact us to verify the request to be confirmed.
2004-09-14 The domain transfer has been successfully completed! We will now process and send you your payment for the domain.
2004-09-14 We are now processing your payment for the sale of this domain.
2004-10-04 We have processed and sent you your payment for this domain. Please note that international wire transfers can take up to 14 days to reach your account.
2004-10-04 This transfer has been successfully completed!


So far, we have not received the funds. What is unthinkable is they asked us where to send the funds to and we replied PalPal, and in our account detail we also put our PayPal email address for all funds to be received by PayPal. Where else can you find such an incompetent company!

Sedo sent us our PPC money to our PayPal account each month, why they couldn't do it this time. If they like wire transfer, we are in Canada and our bank is TD CANADA TRUST with its SWIFT code properly filled in. Why Sedo need that long to send the money?

 

[nitronet]

Helloooo...wake up.

90% of the threads here about Sedo are NEGATIVE!

Perhaps not using them would be the prudent course of action.

 

[tmscheng]

I agree to a great extent, i recently sold a name on sedo at Euro 3000 but the buyer refused to honour the agreement and says he just want to trade name with me and he considers his domain worths Euro 3000, so he put such fig and bid my domain listed.

Withour verifing with me (seller), sedo cancel the agreement and continously defends that the buyer has prior agreement with me of trading name rather than buying the name, but the sedo manager cannot provide evidence, and he consider the buyer's 1-sided allegation as evidence of my having agreement with the buyer. Very irresponsible and stubborn manager sedo has.

 

[SedoCoUk]

Netego,

Have you contacted the transfer agent involved and enquired as to the delay?
Please email me with the domain name in question and I'll look into it.
Regards,
Nora from Sedo
[email protected]

 

[Netego]

Hi Nora,

I sent the name to you once before.

As I read some of your posts, I know You have done a good job defending your company. But my advice to you is this. Don't just offer excuses, if you have a problem, fix it, your users won't be happy with excuses.

You should follow the rules set out by ICANN for transfering domain names. Please never ask the seller to sign any sales document after the name change. If you sold your house today and completed the owner's name change at City Hall, you cannot go out and lease a car claiming that
you are still the owner of the house. It's a crime if you do so.

I find these on Sedo's website totally false advertisement.

"Sedo works with both parties and their registrars to quickly and securely transfer the domain. Through our contacts with major registrars (Register.com, NetSol, eNom, GoDaddy, etc.) we can ensure the most efficient transfer possible."

"Part of Sedo’s value proposition is to offer secure, trouble-free domain transfers even for customers who are completely new to the domain market."

"we're domain experts, so you don't have to be."

 

[fryman04]

tmscheng, similar thing happened ot me, Some scumbag offered to buy one of my domains, I agreed to his offer, and after emailing sedo 2 times asking what had happened with my trtansaction they said they cancelled it because the seller didn't want the domain any more. So I just wasted my time.

Sedo sucks; terrible service, I would never, ever recommend them even to my worst enemy.

 

[freestyler]

hmmmm i have never had any problems with SEDO till now.

Hope your problems are solved soon.

 

[SedoCoUk]

Hello from Sedo,

The domain was not "sold and transferred to buyer on September 8th".
The WHOIS record showed the buyer as admin-c on September the 8th, but did not show the buyer as the registrant.
This effectively means that the registrar had not received confirmation.
Now - the registrar in this case requires the "Change of Ownership" form to be filled out and returned in order for them to transfer control of the domain from the seller to the buyer.
Let's be clear here - the form that you have yet to fill out and return is a requirement of your registrar - it has nothing to do with Sedo.
In addition - it is not the buyer that "insist" on your signature on the form - it is the registrar.

Following your refusal to complete and return the form, you refused to release the domain and then expressed a wish that the domain be returned to your control.
So:
- the change of ownership form required by your registrar is missing unless you sent it directly to your registrar without informing us.
- you expressly stated that you wished the sale be terminated and the domain returned to your control
- we have no confirmation from the buyer that the domain is in his control
- hence, we are in no position to be releasing funds.
- therefore, there is no basis for any party involved to "take Sedo to court"

Please understand - procedure must be followed.
If you were the buyer in this case, you would be very appreciative of the fact that your money had not yet be released.
We have to wait for confirmation from the buyer that the domain is in his control and confirmation from your registrar that they are satisfied that their requirements have been fulfilled.
Whether or not you regarded yourself "in a legal position to sign" or not was irrelevant - you were still the registrant of the domain at that time and could have checked with your registrar and/or your Sedo transfer agent about it were you unsure.

We do follow the rules set out by ICANN for transfering domain names.
We cannot be held responsible for your registrar's transfer requirements.
We did not offer excuses - I asked you for details so I could "fix" the issue
We did not ask you to sign a "sales document" after a name change - your registrar required you complete a "change of ownership" form.
There is no false advertising on Sedo's website.

Also - regarding other posts on this thread regarding buyers/sellers agreeing to a sale and then backing out -
Sedo is not responsible for failed sales/purchases when made through the bid-making system.
As I have already explained in some detail on another thread - we provide a trading platform, a little bit similar to the service Ebay provides.
We do not broker and guarantee sales on an individual basis when sales are conducted via our offer/counter-offer system.
We provide a marketplace and the agreement is between seller and buyer.
In this case, we act as a neutral escrow agent.
The sales contract drawn up and issued to both parties on an agreement is legally binding.
In the unlikely event of a sales cancellation, we cooperate fully with the party that wishes to pursue legal action.
We furnish the buyer/seller and his legal team with all relevant information that we hold and will support him/her fully during the course of the legal proceedings.
This is clearly outlined in our Terms of Use.

If anyone has further questions, I would ask you to contact me directly.
As Netego pointed out - I cannot "fix" issues on a forum basis without domain names, Sedo usernames and details of the transaction.
The forum is not intended to replace customer service.
It is supposed to be a forum where a Sedo representative can address general queries regarding Sedo and the services it provides.
Please understand that I cannot adequately address individual queries and grievances about registrar requirements on a public forum.
Again - if you have any questions, please contact me by email directly.
Kind Regards,

Nora Cotter
Key Account Manager
_______________________________________________

SEDO.COM :: Buy and Sell Domain Names and Websites

tel +49 (221)-420-758-287 :: fax +49 (212)-202-3951
email: [email protected] :: url: www.sedo.com

_______________________ :: make a name for yourself

 

[David G]

"Please understand - procedure must be followed."

Agree with that. I believe that is a major reason the old Afternic.com totally stopped supporting their website and forum as so many of the sales ever finalized over buyer or seller not following all the rules. Their process was quite tedious and required you following the exact long procedure with no variation at all. As a result of confusion or parties not realizing it needed to be done as indicated, a large number of sales never finished and caused them very negative press and constant bad mouthing in the forum, which was 1 reason the firm failed, IMO.

 

[Netego]

Nora,

I try not to insult you because it's too obvious you should be ashamed of your own lies.

First, our Registrar did not ask us to sign any "Ownership Change Form" when we authorized the transfer-out of the domain name.

From : <[email protected]>
Sent : Wednesday, September 8, 2004 5:30 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : xxxxxxxxxx.COM Domain Transfer Notification

The domain, xxxxxxxxxx.COM, has been requested to be transferred out of
xxxxxxxxxx.
This is not a domain renewal notice. You are transferring your domain to a new Registrar.
If you are not planning to transfer out of your registrar then you MUST deny the transfer.
As a security precaution you will need to confirm the transfer of this domain.
Visit the following link to confirm your acceptance or denial of this transfer:
https://secure.registerapi.com/order/trx/trxout.php?id=...
By not visiting the link above, this transfer request will be DENIED
Thank you,
The Automated Transfer System.

Instead, the Form was forwarded to us by Sedo from the buyer on Sep. 10. 2004, 2 days after the change of name.

On the same day, we protested and refused to sign such Form because it violated the contract that we reached on Sedo's website -- No hardcopy of sales contract was needed.

The buyer paid Sedo on Sep. 2, 2004 and the seller authorized the transfer on Sep. 8, 2004, this shows that the buyer is a sincere buyer and the seller is a sincere seller. Now, if the Form was indeed a problem then we had no problem cancelling the deal and accepting the domain name back to our possession. Why Sedo continued the sales proccess and informed us:

*** Sep. 15, 2004
"Hello from Sedo!
You do not need to do anything but wait a few days until the transfer
has completely gone through. They can take up to 7 days depending on
the Registrars. Payment will go out soon. Please confirm once you
have received it.
Kind regards,"

Sedo has more than 2 months to verify whether the buyer indeed has the domain name in his possession, and twice Sedo comfirmed positively on its website in September and in October and a few times in emails sent to us.

2004-09-14 The domain transfer has been successfully completed! We will now process and send you your payment for the domain.
2004-09-14 We are now processing your payment for the sale of this domain.
2004-10-04 We have processed and sent you your payment for this domain. Please note that international wire transfers can take up to 14 days to reach your account.
2004-10-04 This transfer has been successfully completed!

Why suddenly Nora said the buyer did not have the domain in his possession? Here's the record that I got since Sep. 8, 2004.

Registrant:
Dxxx Axxxxxxxxx (the buyer)
Malmvägen xxx, xxx
Sollentuna, SE-xxxxx
SE

Domain Name: XXXXXXXXXX.COM

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Dxxx Axxxxxxxxx
Malmvägen xxx, xxx
Sollentuna, SE-xxxxx
SE
+46 733 xxxxxx
[email protected]

Domain created on 25-Feb-2004
Domain expires on 25-Feb-2006
Last updated on 08-Sep-2004

Nora, could you show me the screenshot you saw anywhere that the Registrant is somebody else other than the buyer? after Sep. 8. 2004 of course.

Also, you said you did not send out the funds because the buyer did not own the domain yet, while your transfer agent said the funds already left the escrow, did he lie then or do you lie now?

"Hello from Sedo! We are pleased to inform you that the transaction of
the domain xxxxxxxxxx.com was successful. The buyer is now listed as the
owner of the domain according to the WHOIS database.
Our accounts department has processed your credit note and the money
has left our escrow account. On average, bank transfers take between 4
and 7 business days to reach your account."

OK, you want to keep our money? No problem, we let you have your wish, Just keep it! But please do not lie again on your website that your customers never lose their domain during your "safe" and "technical" transfer.

Only a few hundreads Euros, we can afford to lose them but we cannot afford not to stop you from preying on other victims.

Therefore SEDOSCAM.com is registered and set up for this purpose. This case will be our first Sedo Scam case.

Please govern yourself accordingly.

 

[SedoCoUk]

Hello again from Sedo,

While we regret that you were unhappy with the service that you received, please note that a forum is not the optimimum way to address the issue.
I have asked you to contact us directly by email (specifically, your transfer agent) in the event of any further questions regarding this transfer.
We do not want to keep your money.
Unlike some other escrow providers, we maintain stringent control over each step of the escrow process to ensure funds are not released before the domain is transferred correctly.
This is how we maintain a 100% security record at the transfer (domain/funds) stage.
I have already explained to you that as soon as the buyer confirms that the domain is in his control, we will release the funds.
I have spoken with your transfer agent and he will ring the buyer involved today to personally confirm that he has control of the domain.
There is no scam.
Please try to look at this from the buyer's point of view - how can we release funds without confirmation?
We adhere to ICANN procedure and the only issue with this transfer appears to be a failure to understand that we cannot release funds yet.
To sum up:
- there is no scam
- we regret that you are unhappy with our security measures
- we understand your frustration and ask you to understand that funds will be released once standard procedure has been followed
- we would ask you to contact your transfer agent if you have any further questions.

Kind Regards,

Nora Cotter
Key Account Manager
_______________________________________________

SEDO.COM :: Buy and Sell Domain Names and Websites

tel +49 (221)-420-758-287 :: fax +49 (212)-202-3951
email: [email protected] :: url: www.sedo.com

_______________________ :: make a name for yourself.

 

[dvdrip]

Excuses...

 

[SedoCoUk]

Hello again,

These are not excuses.
These are facts.
Facts which may be inconvenient for some, but facts nonetheless.

In addition, we just received this message from the buyer:
He is still not listed as the legal owner.
The change-of-ownership request expired due to inaction on the seller's part.

I sincerely hope this sets the record straight.
The legal owner listed at the registrar is still the seller.
There are no excuses.
There is no scam.
We cannot release funds.
That's it.
Netego - please contact your transfer agent if you have questions about this.

Kind Regards,

Nora Cotter
Key Account Manager
_______________________________________________

SEDO.COM :: Buy and Sell Domain Names and Websites

tel +49 (221)-420-758-287 :: fax +49 (212)-202-3951
email: [email protected] :: url: www.sedo.com

_______________________ :: make a name for yourself.

 

[Biggie]

never had a problem with SEDO in regards to buyer/seller transactions.

if the domain never changes hands, then forget about it, and move on.

if the domain changes hands, and you don't get paid...then you have an issue!

 

[David G]

....We do not want to keep your money......

Though I have not dealt with them much myself I know they have a very good reputation and a respected firm so why in the world would Sedo want to keep your money?

Without knowing all the facts I am positive this problem has been caused by either the buyer or seller (possibly both) not adhering strictly to the process. See my previous post on this. The procedure must be followed without variation.

I have seen this happen involving other services too where someone does not follow the strict rules, including real estate where the listing agreement and sales contract must be adhered to with zero tolerance for variation but sometimes the consumer does not realize that or even know what the issue is due to confusion.

P.S. What is the domain name and how much money is involved? Just wondering.

 

[Netego]

Nora,

Don't use excuses again. Talk is cheap, just show us the WHOIS record.

The fact is, we authorized the transfer by answering the buyer's registrar's request on Sep. 2, 2004, we authorized the transfer out of our own registrar on Sep. 8, 2004, since then we don't have control of the domain. The domain is now with the buyer's registrar and in the buyer's account.

Until we get paid for the domain or the domain back to our control, we'll treat this as a scam or a failed scam.

Nora, don't forget your record speaks louder than your excuses and your lies.

Transaction History:

2004-08-29 Agreement reached
2004-08-29 We have invoiced the buyer for the sale of your domain. As soon as the payment reaches our escrow account we will inform you and begin the technical transfer.
2004-08-30 We have received the buyer's payment for your domain. We can now begin the technical transfer.
2004-08-30 Your domain is currently "LOCKED" by your registrar making a transfer impossible. Please remove this lock, or contact your registrar to have it removed, so that we can complete the transfer.
2004-09-02 The buyer has started transfer request. Please confirm the next transfer request from , or contact us to verify the request to be confirmed.
2004-09-14 The domain transfer has been successfully completed! We will now process and send you your payment for the domain.
2004-09-14 We are now processing your payment for the sale of this domain.
2004-10-04 We have processed and sent you your payment for this domain. Please note that international wire transfers can take up to 14 days to reach your account.
2004-10-04 This transfer has been successfully completed!

You should be ashame of yourself if you don't see these facts

 

[dvdrip]

Netego good luck with sedo.

 

[Netego]

if the domain changes hands, and you don't get paid...then you have an issue!

The domain is in the hands of the buyer, in full control. Nore tried to lie this thing off, but it won't. Why is it so hard for her to produce the WHOIS record to back up what she said?

Netego good luck with sedo.

Thanks dvdrip.

 

[freestyler]

never had a problem with SEDO in regards to buyer/seller transactions.

same here

if the domain never changes hands, then forget about it, and move on.

if the domain changes hands, and you don't get paid...then you have an issue!

agree

 

[JuniperPark]

Why isn't the name in question posted here?

Post it, and SOMEONE will be proven to be dishonest real quick. No need for all the finger pointing.