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How Long Should We Wait before We Take Sedo to Court
- Thread starter Netego
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I know Sedo has had some problems recently.
However, openly accusing os 'scams' *without* any supporting documents that can be verified by us (us, as in the forum users who you are apparently addressing the issue to) is pointless.
Either show us the facts, ot dal with Sedo directly.
Like I said, I know they arent perfect, but using words like scam etc... is a little too radical, IMHO.
However, openly accusing os 'scams' *without* any supporting documents that can be verified by us (us, as in the forum users who you are apparently addressing the issue to) is pointless.
Either show us the facts, ot dal with Sedo directly.
Like I said, I know they arent perfect, but using words like scam etc... is a little too radical, IMHO.
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I dealt with SEDO on many occasions selling and buying domains. Their service is great, SECURE, and fast when both parties follow the RULES of escrow transfer.
Nora says that the domain is still under you control, while you say it's not, a simple WHOIS listing will show who is right. I don't know if there are any legal remidies for posting the WHOIS here, but as long as both Nora and You are not posting the WHOIS, you both are hiding something.
Nora says that the domain is still under you control, while you say it's not, a simple WHOIS listing will show who is right. I don't know if there are any legal remidies for posting the WHOIS here, but as long as both Nora and You are not posting the WHOIS, you both are hiding something.
It is not a secret, just a privacy concern for the buyer. But Nora can tell you the name of the domain because she has chances to talk to the buyer and ask for his permission.trader said:
seeker said:
seeker, I agree with you, "scam" is too strong a word to describe what Sedo is doing. But if you experience what we experienced, you'll understand why we have such a conclusion.
It is also an real accusation to force Sedo to seriously answer our questions and concerns and try to disprove it. So far I don't see any credible proof they can present to answer my question. The best they can present is "somebody said so", why can't they have a better mechanism to verify who is the real Registrant for this domain name?
Honestly, I don't believe a company like Sedo would try to scam its customers for just a few hundreds Euros, but their business behavious is totally unacceptable.
After we approved the transfer (2 email requests, one from the buyer's registrar and and one from our own registrar), we received a Form forwarded by Sedo, we actually protested and told Sedo very clearly we CANNOT sign that form with 3 reasons and the main one is the wording of the Form is wrong and irrelevant. Sedo accepted our complaint and told us to talk to our own Registrar to move the domain back to where it was, so we started to get the domain back. Let me borrow Nora's words to prove what we said to them.
"Following your refusal to complete and return the form, you refused to release the domain and then expressed a wish that the domain be returned to your control."
"- you expressly stated that you wished the sale be terminated and the domain returned to your control"
But a few days later Sedo told us to stop transfering back the domain and that we will get our money soon. WHY? Did the buyer agree to go ahead with process even without the Form signed by us? We don't know because we are not allowed to talk to the buyer. If the buyer did not insist the Form be signed then we had no excuse not to proceed with the sale. So we stopped the process of transfering the name back.
Why Sedo tried to hold on to the payment of the buyer and not willing to return it back to the buyer. I really want to hear Sedo's excuses.
And after that we kept receiving news that everything is fine and they already sent out the money to us.
When I showed up again at this forum, Nora started looking for excuses. She said on her post that I should talk to the transfer agent. Actually, we did talk to the agent, but he either did not reply or replied with "everything is fine". We got his last email 3 days ago with a new excuse why he did not answer our email for 2 weeks, "sorry for the late reply, I was sick last week.")
Or, Nora wanted me to send her emails rather than posting questions at the forum.
WHAT DID NORA WANT TO HIDE?
Now, she brings up the Form again for excuses.
Since this is a public forum, we have to be responsible to what we said. I ask the moderator of this forum to involve and ask Nora to present her proof for what she said:
"The domain was not "sold and transferred to buyer on September 8th".
The WHOIS record showed the buyer as admin-c on September the 8th, but did not show the buyer as the registrant."
My WHOIS record is:
Registrant:
Dxxx Axxxxxxxxx (the buyer)
Malmvägen xxx, xxx
Sollentuna, SE-xxxxx
SE
Domain Name: XXXXXXXXXX.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Dxxx Axxxxxxxxx
Malmvägen xxx, xxx
Sollentuna, SE-xxxxx
SE
+46 733 xxxxxx
[email protected]
Domain created on 25-Feb-2004
Domain expires on 25-Feb-2006
Last updated on 08-Sep-2004
If privacy is a concern, just show the address of the Registrant if it is indeed still CANADA, that's good enough for me. Thank you Nora for your cooperation in advance. Also thanks to the Moderator for reminding her of this.
Finally, I should thank seeker for reminding me of the word "scam". I now realize I can only use this word after I can prove in court that SEDO is indeed guilty of such.
So, I apologize to SEDO and all members of this forum, I take back this word for now. I hope this matter can be resolved here soon, if it is not we'll have no choice but to take Sedo to court.
Hello Nora,
Where are you hiding? To prove your integrity, you should come out and show us your WHOIS record that you claimed:
"The domain was not "sold and transferred to buyer on September 8th".
The WHOIS record showed the buyer as admin-c on September the 8th, but did not show the buyer as the registrant."
If you keep hiding, the only way to prove who is telling lies, is to reveal the domain name involved to this forum. I await your consent. Thank you.
Where are you hiding? To prove your integrity, you should come out and show us your WHOIS record that you claimed:
"The domain was not "sold and transferred to buyer on September 8th".
The WHOIS record showed the buyer as admin-c on September the 8th, but did not show the buyer as the registrant."
If you keep hiding, the only way to prove who is telling lies, is to reveal the domain name involved to this forum. I await your consent. Thank you.
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I have used SEDO to buy and sell domains as well as for PPC revenue. I have always complied with the requests they have made and they have always given me first class service. As a matter of fact, they have allowed me to transfer domains to their accounts at various registrars so they can handle the customer transfer portion of the sale. That is what I call 1st class service and going beyond the call of duty.
I have nothing, but nice things to say about SEDO. I think they do an amazing job considering the number of scammers and pain in the a$$ customers they have to deal with on a daily basis.
Sorry to be so positive in this thread. I now return you to your regularly scheduled bitch session.
arty:
I have nothing, but nice things to say about SEDO. I think they do an amazing job considering the number of scammers and pain in the a$$ customers they have to deal with on a daily basis.
Sorry to be so positive in this thread. I now return you to your regularly scheduled bitch session.
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No issues with transactions to date with SEDO
In fact, just processing My 3rd sale since end of September without incident.
LBM
In fact, just processing My 3rd sale since end of September without incident.
LBM
We received an email from Nora. She said the buyer did not want his personal details and the details of his purchase posted on a forum.
As for the question who is the current-listed Registrant of the domain? The buyer is. It is undisputable. Whether or not the buyer has fulfilled all the fancy requirements at his Registrar to own the domain cannot serve as an excuse to distort the FACT that his name is truly listed as Registrant.
When Sedo tries to argue the name shown on the WHOIS may not be the same as what shown at the buyer's Registrar. That's exactly the point why we did not sign the "Change-Ownership" Form when we received it because we cannot swear "I represent and warranty that I possess the authority to... as shown in the (buyer's) Registrar's control panel". How can the seller see what is in the control panel in the buyer's account at the buyer's Registrar? We cannot guarantee that it is not "A TERRORIST's NAME", entered mistakenly by a sleepy typist!!! Despite our pointing out the wording problem the transfer agent was unwilling to talk to the buyer and fix the problem, he
only offered his excuse that that's from the buyer's Registrar and it had nothing to do with Sedo.
With the buyer being listed as Registrant, I think it should conclude my purpose of coming here and present my story. I did not post to hurt anybody, I just use this forum as a cheap but effective tool to get responsible answers from Sedo and take back what should be ours.
Since there is no more excuse to withhold our payment further, I urge Sedo either pay us or cancel the transaction and refund the buyer immediately. If Sedo chooses to refund the buyer please also tell the buyer we will help him to keep the name because we don't have the intention to get it back. To loose it is cheaper than to get it back. We will send an email to the transfer
agent from our Admin-Contact to confirm our request.
Before I end my post for this topic, let's not overlook these.
1/. Sedo uses full ownership at the buyer's Registrar as an excuse to deny our payment.
The fact should be this, the moment Sedo pays us the buyer starts owning it, as long as Sedo does not pay, the buyer does not own it, regardless what problem the buyer has with his Registrar, they are all temporal. The concept or law that "you buy it, you own it" has been rooted in our civilasation for many thousand years, it cannot be disputed. The buyer's Registrar can set its own rules but ultimate the Court of the State of California will overrule base on the payment the buyer makes.
2/. "Unlike some other escrow providers, ... we maitain a 100% security record at the transfer stage".
If you ask the security experts, they will tell you they don't know what 100% security is because there is no such thing as 100% security. Some Registrars impose 90-day or 180-day mandatory lock for newly registered or transfered domains, they claim their policy is to ensure 100% security FOR the sake of their customers. But at the instance the locks are released their customers rush in and move their domains away. When ICANN enforced the new rules for domain transfer this month, they did not seek 100% security but the procedure remains extremely safe. The number of frauds that take place in one day in New York city is many times the number of domain names that have been stolen in the world in our entire human history. I hope we can see the wisdom of non-100% security and ask the government or ICANN to set rules for escrow service providers to pay the seller once the domain buyer is listed as Registrant at the WHOIS record (not the record in somebody's closet). Sedo would certainly object and argue that it is not safe for the buyer. But how anyone can come and take away the domain from the buyer? Sedo could suggest that its customer the seller would come back and claim their ownership over the domain, but how many wicked and stupid and foolish
seller would do something like that? Even we suggest there exist such a stupid seller in this universe but what is his rate of success? Zero! Don't we have the law to deal with this situation already?
3/. To prove the buyer is in control of the domain please look at this example.
Suppose Sedo paid us, the buyer now initiates from a new Registrar to transfer this domain away from his current Registrar. Once the new Registrar receives the request, it will send an authorization request to the Admin-C (the buyer), the buyer approves it, the new Registrar then submits the transfer request to the Registry, ... then his current Registrar sends an request to the Admin-C (the buyer). (This domain is not in dispute, the current Registrar has no reason to block the transfer) 5 days later, no objection from the seller (being not stupid), the buyer will be once again the true owner of the domain.
4/. A few posts said they had no problem with Sedo so far. True, they shouldn't have, because the transfer process was set to work so smoothly. We have domain names stay all over the places, with about 8 Registrars. Because the renewal fee is always more expensive than the transfer fee, we sometimesmove around our domains a bit. In the last few years we have transfered domain names more than a thousand times, but how many times we see problems? Zero! We never even talk to the Registrars by phone. I say this trufully, these Registrars can verify it by looking into our accounts.
We judge a company being good or not by how they help their customers when they have problem.
--Netego
As for the question who is the current-listed Registrant of the domain? The buyer is. It is undisputable. Whether or not the buyer has fulfilled all the fancy requirements at his Registrar to own the domain cannot serve as an excuse to distort the FACT that his name is truly listed as Registrant.
When Sedo tries to argue the name shown on the WHOIS may not be the same as what shown at the buyer's Registrar. That's exactly the point why we did not sign the "Change-Ownership" Form when we received it because we cannot swear "I represent and warranty that I possess the authority to... as shown in the (buyer's) Registrar's control panel". How can the seller see what is in the control panel in the buyer's account at the buyer's Registrar? We cannot guarantee that it is not "A TERRORIST's NAME", entered mistakenly by a sleepy typist!!! Despite our pointing out the wording problem the transfer agent was unwilling to talk to the buyer and fix the problem, he
only offered his excuse that that's from the buyer's Registrar and it had nothing to do with Sedo.
With the buyer being listed as Registrant, I think it should conclude my purpose of coming here and present my story. I did not post to hurt anybody, I just use this forum as a cheap but effective tool to get responsible answers from Sedo and take back what should be ours.
Since there is no more excuse to withhold our payment further, I urge Sedo either pay us or cancel the transaction and refund the buyer immediately. If Sedo chooses to refund the buyer please also tell the buyer we will help him to keep the name because we don't have the intention to get it back. To loose it is cheaper than to get it back. We will send an email to the transfer
agent from our Admin-Contact to confirm our request.
Before I end my post for this topic, let's not overlook these.
1/. Sedo uses full ownership at the buyer's Registrar as an excuse to deny our payment.
The fact should be this, the moment Sedo pays us the buyer starts owning it, as long as Sedo does not pay, the buyer does not own it, regardless what problem the buyer has with his Registrar, they are all temporal. The concept or law that "you buy it, you own it" has been rooted in our civilasation for many thousand years, it cannot be disputed. The buyer's Registrar can set its own rules but ultimate the Court of the State of California will overrule base on the payment the buyer makes.
2/. "Unlike some other escrow providers, ... we maitain a 100% security record at the transfer stage".
If you ask the security experts, they will tell you they don't know what 100% security is because there is no such thing as 100% security. Some Registrars impose 90-day or 180-day mandatory lock for newly registered or transfered domains, they claim their policy is to ensure 100% security FOR the sake of their customers. But at the instance the locks are released their customers rush in and move their domains away. When ICANN enforced the new rules for domain transfer this month, they did not seek 100% security but the procedure remains extremely safe. The number of frauds that take place in one day in New York city is many times the number of domain names that have been stolen in the world in our entire human history. I hope we can see the wisdom of non-100% security and ask the government or ICANN to set rules for escrow service providers to pay the seller once the domain buyer is listed as Registrant at the WHOIS record (not the record in somebody's closet). Sedo would certainly object and argue that it is not safe for the buyer. But how anyone can come and take away the domain from the buyer? Sedo could suggest that its customer the seller would come back and claim their ownership over the domain, but how many wicked and stupid and foolish
seller would do something like that? Even we suggest there exist such a stupid seller in this universe but what is his rate of success? Zero! Don't we have the law to deal with this situation already?
3/. To prove the buyer is in control of the domain please look at this example.
Suppose Sedo paid us, the buyer now initiates from a new Registrar to transfer this domain away from his current Registrar. Once the new Registrar receives the request, it will send an authorization request to the Admin-C (the buyer), the buyer approves it, the new Registrar then submits the transfer request to the Registry, ... then his current Registrar sends an request to the Admin-C (the buyer). (This domain is not in dispute, the current Registrar has no reason to block the transfer) 5 days later, no objection from the seller (being not stupid), the buyer will be once again the true owner of the domain.
4/. A few posts said they had no problem with Sedo so far. True, they shouldn't have, because the transfer process was set to work so smoothly. We have domain names stay all over the places, with about 8 Registrars. Because the renewal fee is always more expensive than the transfer fee, we sometimesmove around our domains a bit. In the last few years we have transfered domain names more than a thousand times, but how many times we see problems? Zero! We never even talk to the Registrars by phone. I say this trufully, these Registrars can verify it by looking into our accounts.
We judge a company being good or not by how they help their customers when they have problem.
--Netego
Having dealt with SEDO on many occasions, i have to say, they have been professional in every transaction.
Remember, SEDO is a professional company with a large customer base (and increasingly growing). Their reputation is very important and closely linked to their success (why would they 'scam' a few hundred euro to put this at risk?).
In these posts, we have to make sure our questions / comments are well informed, non-emotional, and not put out there for the sole purpose of 'slandering' SEDO. As readers, we also have to be aware of the bias etc of posters here; especially when there are so many negative SEDO postings here, which would certainly represent the minority of SEDO customers, the majority (like me) being very happy with SEDO.
I have a substantial portfolio with SEDO - I'll certainly continue to use 'em.
Remember, SEDO is a professional company with a large customer base (and increasingly growing). Their reputation is very important and closely linked to their success (why would they 'scam' a few hundred euro to put this at risk?).
In these posts, we have to make sure our questions / comments are well informed, non-emotional, and not put out there for the sole purpose of 'slandering' SEDO. As readers, we also have to be aware of the bias etc of posters here; especially when there are so many negative SEDO postings here, which would certainly represent the minority of SEDO customers, the majority (like me) being very happy with SEDO.
I have a substantial portfolio with SEDO - I'll certainly continue to use 'em.
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You'd have to go back and re-read the thread. Seems to be a difference of opinion on the facts.options said:
Sounds like it. Considering the buyer knows a request was made to discuss personal details on a public forum, I'm sure he/she would not want those details broadcast due to non-payment either. --That, and some people are actually honest.options said:
~ Nexus
Nexus said:
Nexus, you're completely right, the buyer is an honorable man. He was so happy that Sedo refunded his payment, so that he could talk to us directly.
As for us, after more than 3 months of waiting, lies after lies, that's the best choice we could make -- cancel the transaction and let the buyer take control.
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I have a domain (My first through Sedo) right now, I have done everything and it seens to be going great, but the Whois is still in my name and this is what it says on my account:
I hope this goes ok, as I have never had any problems with them, exept that I now use DS, and make more on my names then at Sedo. The name I'm selling is
I hope this goes ok, as I have never had any problems with them, exept that I now use DS, and make more on my names then at Sedo. The name I'm selling is
Domain Name:VICUS.ORG
Created On:21-Sep-2004 16:33:18 UTC
Last Updated On:20-Dec-2004 17:41:15 UTC
Expiration Date:21-Sep-2005 16:33:18 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status
Sedo are a joke. They say forums not place to discuss issues but email.
I have sent many many emails to them without response.
I have had a few issues with them in past. Latest being for a name I paid for few weeks back and still have not received the name all though it states the transaction has been concluded.
I will leave it at for now as my blood is beginning to boil and don't want to say anything that might get me banned from DNF.
Cheers
I have sent many many emails to them without response.
I have had a few issues with them in past. Latest being for a name I paid for few weeks back and still have not received the name all though it states the transaction has been concluded.
I will leave it at for now as my blood is beginning to boil and don't want to say anything that might get me banned from DNF.
Cheers
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