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Hypothetical question...

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PeterMan

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Lets say that you see an ad for a new company or a new invention, whatever... and, you check and see that the .com for that name is already in use by another company for something totally unrelated and has been long before the new company came into existance.

If I make an offer to the owner of the domain and actually buy it from him would the new company have a chance to take the domain from me?
 
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Focus

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Nope. not unless you did something really stupid like send them an email saying "I have this domain same as your product, and bought it to sell to you..dee dee dee" lol
 

PeterMan

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Nope. not unless you did something really stupid like send them an email saying "I have this domain same as your product, and bought it to sell to you..dee dee dee" lol

hehe cool, thanks... I was thinking that but it never hurts to ask... I am pretty sure the owner is not going to sell anyway, the domain is regged until 2010... but again... It never hurts to ask ;-)
 

Focus

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Agreed, if you don't ask then you won't know! Sometimes you have to ask alot, and if that fails..I just send Vinny and Rocco over.
 

DNQuest.com

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Lets say that you see an ad for a new company or a new invention, whatever... and, you check and see that the .com for that name is already in use by another company for something totally unrelated and has been long before the new company came into existance.

If I make an offer to the owner of the domain and actually buy it from him would the new company have a chance to take the domain from me?

And the response was "nope"? I think the response should have been along the lines as "bad faith registration". The OP admits to wanting the domain because of someone else's name or product. I think that is called cybersquatting. Yes, it is hard to prove intent, unless of course someone posts a thread saying they want to obtain a domain because they heard of a new company or product.
 

petrosc

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And the response was "nope"? I think the response should have been along the lines as "bad faith registration". The OP admits to wanting the domain because of someone else's name or product. I think that is called cybersquatting. Yes, it is hard to prove intent, unless of course someone posts a thread saying they want to obtain a domain because they heard of a new company or product.

so the response is "nope" because they wont be able to prove it....
 

PeterMan

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Yes, the intent is certainly not clear... Personally, I think the term "CyberSquatting" is thrown around way too much by a lot of folks, not sure why...
 

DNQuest.com

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I am sure bad faith could be proven and bad faith registration ruled :)
 

Raider

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Something very similar happened to me, I bought something at the pet store, when I got home I noticed the tag had a website, it was a .net TLD, this made me curious to who owned the .com, well guess what? it was dropping at netsol in a matter of days, so I backordered it at Snapnames and got it, the previous owner used it for ski rentals or something like that, something totally unrelated.

Now I would think if I parked it using the pet product in which they hold a trademark, that would be considered cybersqatting wouldn't' it?...I think it would depend on how the domain is used.
 

Raider

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Eva if thy have TM it would be considered typosquatting if you feature pet related ads on the domain

There is a brilliant post from Mr Berryhill which you might find interesting:

http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?t=184992&highlight=jberryhill - post #9

Thanks for posting this thread Petros, it was very interesting reading by JB.

I love reading posts like these where the original poster gets caught with his pants down, but when he tries to lie about it afterwards, it insults all of us, that I dont like.
 

Focus

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How many of you have really ever had a problem with losing domains to wipo in these circumstances? This whole "cybersquatting" debate is getting old...in alot of cases many people cross lines of names and terms but that does not automatically mean you lose the domain name. If that was the case then you might as well not register anything ever or buy any domains. Risk = Reward and if you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen and let the other chef in!
 

Dave Zan

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If I make an offer to the owner of the domain and actually buy it from him would the new company have a chance to take the domain from me?

Short term answer is "you bet your pwet". (Raider at the very least knows the
meaning of that. :D)

What Raider described can be, absent of considering other factors.
 

PeterMan

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Thanks for posting this thread Petros, it was very interesting reading by JB.

I love reading posts like these where the original poster gets caught with his pants down, but when he tries to lie about it afterwards, it insults all of us, that I dont like.

edited- misunderstanding :blush:
 

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PeterMan

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I am sure bad faith could be proven and bad faith registration ruled :)

Just to clarify, how could anyone prove bad faith when one party legally buys a domain from another party? You could only try to prove bad faith if and when the domain was developed/parked/advertised for sale, etc...

If the new owner of the domain chose to develop it into something completely different from the old site and the new company/invention whatever... there would be no bad faith imo...

So to be even more clear lets give an example. Lets say the the new company/invention is called virtualizorist (i just made that up, obviously) and it is for a new virtual realty video game. And lets say that the old company that is using virtualizorist.com sells virtual reality glasses and has for may years. I come along and buy virtualizorist.com and I use it to sell "virtual experience novels"...

Bad faith? I don't think so anyway...
 

DNQuest.com

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I will directly reply to 2 posters here, and I will be very blunt (more than usual, if you are easily offended, do not read).

There are some domaineers that do have ethics, and there are others that do not. I choose to be ethical as do many others on this board. There are others who only care about the money. These are the ones that do make it hard for the rest of us. You choose your own risk/reward factors.

Anyone who has been around knows I call a spade a spade and the posters ultimately prove which side of the ball they are on, no matter how much they justify it to themselves. Domaineers do not want to be called cybersquatters, and with good reason, but words are meaningless, it is their actions that shows their true colors. You can "what if" and "how about" all you like. But the fact is, the OP wants to get a domain for something new they heard about, obtain the domain and sell it to them. That is called cybersquatting. That is the underbelly of our business. Some poeple are comfortable with that, (right Focus?) Some are not.

You want opinions, people are more than happy to help out. But don't ask for opinions and then argue when you don't like what we have to say. Ultimately, do what you want, we really don't care. But if you don't like being called a squatter, then don't think and act like one. Sure, legally you can get away with some things and cover yourself... but deep down, we know what they truly are.
 

PeterMan

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the OP wants to get a domain for something new they heard about, obtain the domain and sell it to them.
You should really find out all of the information before you go making statements like this.

Have you ever considered that the "OP" was looking for advice before attempting to purchase a domain for his legitimate business idea? It just so happens that another company uses the name that is in the domain for their product, which is completely unrelated to the "OP's" idea...

Have you also considered that the "OP" was looking for such advice so that the "OP" would not put himself in a situation where he could have a legal issue?

Obviously you did not...
 

Focus

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I will directly reply to 2 posters here, and I will be very blunt (more than usual, if you are easily offended, do not read).

There are some domaineers that do have ethics, and there are others that do not. I choose to be ethical as do many others on this board. There are others who only care about the money. These are the ones that do make it hard for the rest of us. You choose your own risk/reward factors.

Anyone who has been around knows I call a spade a spade and the posters ultimately prove which side of the ball they are on, no matter how much they justify it to themselves. Domaineers do not want to be called cybersquatters, and with good reason, but words are meaningless, it is their actions that shows their true colors. You can "what if" and "how about" all you like. But the fact is, the OP wants to get a domain for something new they heard about, obtain the domain and sell it to them. That is called cybersquatting. That is the underbelly of our business. Some poeple are comfortable with that, (right Focus?) Some are not.

You want opinions, people are more than happy to help out. But don't ask for opinions and then argue when you don't like what we have to say. Ultimately, do what you want, we really don't care. But if you don't like being called a squatter, then don't think and act like one. Sure, legally you can get away with some things and cover yourself... but deep down, we know what they truly are.

So moving DNQuest. yawn.. :sleep:

Now, I will be blunt back to you...so don't get offended please..it's

REALITY: People that register ANY domain names for any profit or buy and sell domain names - rely solely on another persons need for it, either by their related business usage of the said name or by someones visitation to it for a product, service, or information. Harsh reality for you and a few others to face dude, so climb down off your high horse and realize you don't work for the Red Cross. Domaining was born from cybersquatting. You ever hear of "the early bird gets the worm?" Of course ethically it would be wrong to register "McDonaldsCharity.com" or something like that but if it is free to register and they don't want to use it, and it gets traffic and makes me money, then by the power of the "risk vs. reward" rule, it will sit in my damn parking account and make money up until which time (if ever) they want it and either request it from me and I comply, (always do) or they acquire it by the laws and procedures in place to protect them and their trademarks and brand names. 99% of the time they simply don't care and it's either me or "Zing Zwang Jung" or whatever in china that registers it and makes a living. I personally do not mess with any domains that I feel will take away from or harm anyone's business in my personal assesment, most time you are just directing the traffic to that company or site anyways through ppc, doing them somewhat of a service in fact in the grand scheme of things. If I own a domain like insurancequotes.com, then I derive all of it's value, traffic and earnings from companies that provide insurance quotes online, it's the "domain money rain cycle" as I call it and keeps food on everyones table and makes our Internet economy what it is. You ever hear of Capitalism? Free trade? Better yet, let's all just delete all of our domains and go back to the radio. No better yet, YOU delete your domains and I will re-register them. Then you can sleep at night knowing you saved the world from us evil-doers. Get over it. :rolleyes:


I will tell you whats wrong in this business..judgemental & arrogant people like yourself that think they are better than everyone else and try to demonize and put others down for trying to make a living and doing the best they can in this "shark tank" business. Who are you to judge me or anyone else with those cryptic comments like "they show their true colors..blah blah blah" You try to infer that because someone might take an opportunity to make money with a domain name they must be an all around bad person...well guess what, that is called "circular logic" and it's very WRONG logic. I am a very good person as are most domainers, and also we happen to be some of the most giving and generous people I know of that have basically made this business what it is. So, if after reading this you feel that maybe you don't fit into this category...then I am sure nobody will complain (or miss your negativity) when you stop being involved as well as judging us and putting others down here on DNF for doing their OWN business, that really in REALITY is none of YOUR business...unless you want to pay my bills of course. With all due respect.

Regards,

Chris

ps - I literally hate money, but I am a prisoner to it as a result of the world we live in.
 

petrosc

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Ok I'm feeling that this is going to be one of those long threads, but I'll express my feelings too on this subject.

Before I started writing, I happened to open a discussion with someone about typosquatting and how some domainers have strong opinions against it. I just finished this phrase and he gave me a surprised look and said: "And buying a name for $7 and selling it to someone for thousands is moral?"

Domaining in it's core has very little to differentiate it's self from squatting. The whole industry revolves around being quick enough to register a domain before someone who really needs it, and then exploiting the fact that someone might need it so much that he would pay an inflated fee of thousands of dollars for a virtual property that costs only $7.

This is what 98% in this forum do - resell names. Register them and sell them for 1000x of what they paid. Or, buy it, and then sell it for much more, again to a person who desperately needs it(and I mean desparately because otherwise he would not be paying thousands of dollars for it). If we exclude the true generics that have value in the traffic they bring and can justify their value in real world $, most of the people in this industry buy and sell domains that receive little or no traffic, based on their term potential and brandability.

We've seen Frank Schilling and before that we've seen Sedo(in the newsletters) give advice to buy Geo targetted names like chicagosurgeon.com, newyorklaywer.com, orlandoflorist.com etc, because in the future there will be high demand and can be resold for thousands. Let's taka look into the core of this practice.... So we buy names like orlandoflorist.com for example, and then squeeze out every little penny out of a florist who will need this it for his business. It can be a family business or whatever, but we don't care, if he doesnt meet our 4-5-figure expectations we just won't sell it to him. If he is desperate enough, he will give in. So we are practically holding something that we have no use for so that we can sell it to someone who's business depends on it. I ask you... Where are the ethics in that?

Or let's take another example, something that a lot of dropcatchers do. Someone forgets to renew his family business domain and loses his domain to a dropcatcher. One of us grabs his domain and when this poor guy contacts him, the domainer will sell it to him for thousands, making him a 1000% ROI in just a few days. Think about it and tell me that this is not taking advantage of that guys need in owning that name. And yet most of us never stop to consider the ethics of this practice and do it. Some even set a minimum, let's say $1000 for cases like this, otherwise they won't sell. So where are the ethics in that?

None of the above is moral, however it is a legal practice and when something is legal, people tend to take it as granted that it is also moral and never give it a second thought. Well the fact is, if you want to be like mother teresa you probably shouldn't be domaining because exploiting other people's needs is what domaining is about - admit it to yourself or not, it's a fact

I have NEVER ever seen anyone accuse someone in this forum of unethical practice for selling a name like orlandoflorist.com to an end user. On the contrary, we all congratulate that person for his achievement of finding an end user who needed it that bad, that paid a huge amount for it.

I was sitting at a cafe with some friends the other day and someone mentioned that he wanted to build a website for his business, and he was talking to me in desperation because someone has registered the domain he wanted a few days ago(it was probably just a coincidence) and he wanted x,xxx to for it. He told me that he thinks that all domainers are heartless scumbags that take advantage of people who want to build their business. And eventhough I know we are not scumbags(because I do consider myself and most people in this forum to be a good and caring persons), I do agree with him that basically, we make our living by taking advantage of people who need something that we have - and we sure do our best to take as much as we can from them and at the end of the day we even feel proud about it.

The point of my blurb is that whoever buys domains that he has no use for other than selling them for profit, must look at himself first of all and critisize his own actions before he goes out and criticize others. Let he who is without sin throw the first stone - I'm sure nobody in this forum will.

And about typosquatting, yes I do it and it partly pays for my studies. I see nothing wrong in owning a domain that receives traffic that would be otherwise lost. If the company wants it, they will contact me and I will give it to them, hassle free. One might argue that I should hand it over to them instead of waiting until they contact me first. But hey, I'm no mother Teresa and if they don't care enough to get the .net or the www version of their website why should I? (a note here: regardless, I have a very few names with potential TM issues)

And last but not least, Let me explain how grateful big corporations are when you register a typo just to help them.- Yes I did that and I regret it.

You all remember the .tv boom a short time ago, when Demand Media opened ME.TV to promote the video blogs and websites. The first day, the site got enormous traffic and alexa was showing that it would be the leader in movers and shakers. Once a domain gets into movers and shakers all typos are gone. So I thought to myself, this time I will do something good. I registered wwwme.tv and immediately redirected it to their website, following an email explaining that I am holding the domain for them and I want to give it to them, I made it obvious that I did not want to sell, and I mentioned that I do not even want the $30 reg fee I paid. Just plain simple - hand it over.

I received NO REPLY. I then sent another message pissed off for ignoring me. Again, they ignored me some more.

I think enough said, this post is already long enough - I'm just very upset by the way some people see things.


I also want to make this clear that I am not referring to DNQUEST in specific. I respect him and I was one of the people who voted for him to get an upgrade from DCG
 
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