I bid $611,000 for music.mobi - Lawsuit Pending

[Devil Dog]

:?::shy:

 

[GoPC]

wait,,,so you actually think he paid?... what about 50% of the other mobis at auctions , traffic, whatever that were bought by the same people in the last row ? Half of the mobis were bid up and didnt sell to real buyers IMO

So.... you are saying they were bid shilling? They Lied, committed fraud and intentionally deceived the public in order to make money?

Isn't that the point of this thread?

Anyway, I would really like to hear Rick's answer to accusations such as this. The idea that TRAFFIC founders and other industry leaders have a secret pact to NOT pay for high end domains in order to artificially drive prices some years later... Wow.

Another poster further down pointed out that Rick was an example of someone that might have been willing to pay anything for a domain he wanted.

Again... isn't that the POINT? We all have domains that are only supremely valuable to a small niche of people that are willing to do whatever it takes because of the value they place in THEIR mind.

Can that NOT be the case with Music.mobi?

And if that is the case, then knowing that, Sedo could certainly be painted as "taking advantage of" a glitch to show the current success of the domain in order to attract more bidders and drive the price in an unfairly extended auction with unauthorized bidders.

It's an argument... I can't say it would work, but it's an argument.

Personal attacks aside, .mobi attacks aside... would this case have merit if it were a .com? Would you all then be more interested in its outcome?

Because whatever the ext... this will set precedence that will affect all auctions to come. Think of it that way. Extension is irrelevant.

GoPC

 

[katherine]

As a refresher here are previous posts by Rick
http://www.dnforum.com/post95-post-983750.html
http://www.dnforum.com/post122-post-984269.html
http://www.namepros.com/1792077-post63.html

 

[Vision]

As a refresher here are previous posts by Rick
http://www.dnforum.com/post95-post-983750.html
http://www.dnforum.com/post122-post-984269.html
http://www.namepros.com/1792077-post63.html

Kate..I'll help you out, those links are 9 to 14 months old...

here is Ricks' comprehensive analysis and commentary from last month....

http://www.ricksblog.com/my_weblog/2007/11/the-real-story.html

November 16, 2007
The REAL story behind the flowers.mobi purchase
I bought Sirius Satellite Radio at 49 cents. I bought hundreds of thousands of shares and made millions of dollars when the net was at the lowest point. I wonder about the rumors on Wall St. lol

I bought that stock for ONE main reason. I looked at the impressive list of companies backing Sirius. I FOLLOWED THE MONEY!! I do that all the time. In anything. ALWAYS....follow the money. I did the same with .mobi. What caught MY attention were the companies backing it. Why would they do that? I also saw a POSSIBLE difference in .mobi if it ever became adopted as a standard by these folks that were investing. Taking $200k out of my pocket to buy flowers.mobi given my financial position was no big deal to me. I have lost $200k in the stock market quicker than it took me to write this SENTENCE! Remember iOmega.com, quepasa.com, etoys.com? It was left over $$$ that I had nowhere to invest. Seems it became a big deal to everyone else as rumors by those with an agenda were planted within minutes or hours of the auction. To me it was just one transaction out of thousands that I make.

Just to set the record straight.

First let me clean things up. Seems there are rumors circulating that I need to put an end to. The only way to do that is to state the FACTS from the horses mouth so all the speculation of what "Really" happened are finally put to bed and the record is set straight.

I get no kickbacks or anything from .mobi whatsoever. Not a penny, not so much as a dinner. NOTHING! The share TRAFFIC makes off the auction is our business. But we make the same off of any sale off any extension. The only relationship is their sponsorships which have been modest but appreciated. Before the TRAFFIC show in October 2006, I had never met, spoken to, emailed or had a relationship with anyone at .mobi. I didn't even know that .mobi was not spelled .moby.

So let me take you inside my mind over a year ago when I bought flowers.mobi. First of all I never registered a single .mobi domain during the sunrise period. My interest was not there until about a week before the auction or whenever Moniker announced the premium domain list. See, when I speculate with domains of ANY extension, I focus on one word domains or 2 very meaningful word domains. But if I am going to speculate on any extension other than dotcom, I am going to buy premium domains. So I decided to wait until the Moniker auction at TRAFFIC because that was going to be the first time that PREMIUM names with that extension would become available. I immediately picked flowers.mobi as the most valuable domain on the list and one of the premiere domains in the space should .mobi take off. So I decided before the auction I would bid up to $100k to get it.

First of all I think even if .mobi takes off it will be very narrow. It won't be the same as .com. I believe folks will concentrate on different things. So I decided that flowers.mobi was the prize. However I was interested in many of the other .mobi's because I wanted a stake in some of the best premium domains. If I am going to invest in a risky new extension, I am going to do my best to get domains I believe have the best balance of price and future.

So quietly I bought Laugh.mobi for $3k, celebs.mobi for $2250 and a few others like eat.mobi. early in the auction for about 8k. Then wow.mobi for $9k, gossip.mobi for $5k, Fun.mobi came up. I had also wanted that as well. When it hit $95 or $100k I dropped out. I also tried to buy party.mobi.

As I stated earlier, I was going to bid up to $100k for flowers.mobi. I knew that the flowers.com attorney was there and bidding. however I could not see him and I have no idea when he dropped out of the bidding. Some of told me $40k while others have stated $100k. I still don't know as I write this. I know there are other big companies investing in .mobi and I ALWAYS....."Follow the money." But when several others bid 6 figures it created a "Market value" and that gave me confidence to bid higher than what I planned. Now a "Floor" was established as 3 or 4 people in the room were willing to pay over $100k and 2 or 3 of them went to $120k I think. Then I duked in out with my friends at EuroDNS. Their last bid was $190k if I recall correctly. So what others see as this great risk, I see as a domain that the market said was worth between $100k and $200k set by the market not a worthless appraisal. Not a rumor started with somebody with an agenda.

I had no idea what a firestorm that would create until I began reading what was said after the auction on the boards when I returned to my room late that night. The rumors were flying. They just made stuff up. They were not even there but once someone starts a rumor, the mindless followers spread it like wildfire. Everything is a conspiracy to them. THAT was the REAL story. But they were too busy looking in the grassy knoll for some BS that somebody with a motive planted. Not that it is possible that I saw something different in .mobi than any other extension. Something I really don't need to reveal here but I have even tho that's MY business. But I am setting the record straight regardless and maybe some of the mindless folks that talk out of their butts will learn something instead of making it up.

But there is ONE thing different and it has nothing to do with compliance or anything like that. Let me put it this way....If there are 450 lemonade stands lined upon a street and I wanted to do business where would I start? Some would say get some lemons and a table and sell lemonade. I would say let me focus on grape juice and I bet I will do more business than most of the lemonade stands in my first day than those there for YEARS!. That's the best I can do at this point in time. But just like .com, I reach a point of investment and I slow down or stop. I decided that $500k-750k was what I would RISK with .mobi. Is it a good investment? Ask me in 5 years. That is how long I expect it to be before the seeds from my investment germinate or die. On the other hand, if I flip them TODAY, the value of my investment has gone up and I will show that in a minute.

Well there are the facts. I get no preferential treatment from .mobi. I get NOTHING WHATSOEVER in return. Not even a Christmas Card. lol But if I get one, I will let you all know. I just buy things at one price that I believe their value will go up in the future. I may be right. I may be wrong. That is what investing is all about and I ain't done that bad for myself over the years. If folks decide that since Rick Schwartz is buying .mobi they should too.....that has nothing to do with me. They may buy because I buy but they do it silly and blindly if that is the only reason. I just have a hard enough time taking care of my own business and my own concerns and wiping my own butt in the morning to worry about the other BS, rumors and such made up by folks in this business that have a motive and an agenda.

Lastly.......

Some folks think that just because I run a tradeshow, just because I have a private forum, just because I am who I am that I should not be allowed to bid at the TRAFFIC auctions. Well to those folks, I would say I never abdicated my being a domainer when I decided to share my knowledge and promote the industry. I take folks on the boat I created and the next thing I know I have to deal with folks trying to throw me off my own ship. I am a domainer. I have been a domainer for a dozen years. I am going to continue to buy domains whenever and wherever. That includes TRAFFIC and the Moniker auction and any other auction I feel I want to participate in. Those that don't want me to bid because they perceive that I have an unfair advantage are wrong. I am a domainer just like them. The next thing they will complain about is my bank account has millions more than they do and so THAT gives me an unfair advantage. To those folks.....GET OVER IT! Work hard, make good decisions and get rewarded. Every second you are minding MY business, you are ignoring yours. Does THAT sound like a good decision? A good investment of your time? It sure looks foolish to me.

As far as Sahar and the "rest of the story." I have no idea what he is referring to. It could be something simple like all the publicity the flowers.mobi sale created. What's the value of that? But I will ask him before I finish this just to see. (Already revealed above)

Anyway, that's the real story from the horses mouth. Take it or leave it, those are the FACTS. If you want to make up lies in the face of facts, knock yourself out. But don't expect me to allow you to get away with it. The industry now knows the story behind the story. I may have written it earlier but I was still actively buying .mobi and was not in my best interest. Now I have the stake I want and it's on to the next investment. And that is what it is.....an investment that may or may not pay dividends. Those that say I am promoting .mobi are making it up. Look at any of my posts about the extension. They are well balanced. They show BOTH sides of the coin. I have no idea if .mobi will be a hit or a bust. If it is a bust I lose up to $750k. If it is a win, then who knows. I like bets with "Who knows" based on my gut. Some go to Vegas and gamble, some do it on Wall St., I prefer to do my own gambling on my own business using a gut instinct that has served me well.

And in the interest of full disclosure. Jim McCann the CEO and Founder of Flowers.com will be our keynote speaker at TRAFFIC in Las Vegas. So now you will have some other conspiracy theories to make up and talk about. I hope you will be more creative with this one. Do you think I should wear my Flowers.mobi shirt to dinner? Deliver flowers to his room from FLOWERS.MOBI? Have the limo pick him up with Flowers.mobi all over the sides? Nah....not my style. I'll just enjoy the talk from a guy who has walked the same path as us and has one of THE greatest success stories of all time to share. I will learn more from his words than the $200k Flowers.mobi cost me and I will still own the domain name. Besides, I would rather discuss Candy.com with him. Shazaam!

Now that we took care of that, lets peel back the NUMBERS. The numbers tell all. Numbers don't lie....people have agendas. People make things up. But numbers tell a story. A story most are AFRAID to look at and even more afraid to understand. My best business friend is numbers.

If you read my comments I have always addressed both sides of the .mobi debate. I am in the middle. I admit I am not smart enough to know what others THINK they know. I know to trust the numbers and tune out the bullshit on both sides. Whatever extension folks focus on there is a narrow line between just investing in the extension and promoting that extension. IDN won't be big because somebody says so. It will be big when/if the market says so. When the numbers say so. Same with .tv, .biz, .info .whatever. It will be big when Ron Jackson's chart shows it is big. Shows by real world, verifiable sales. In 2007 so far of the top 100 reported sales 91 are .com. So dotcom is KING, not because I say so but because the market says so. Of the 9 that were not .com......2 were.mobi.......3 were .net.........1 was .org.........1 was .info.......and there were 2 country codes, .co.uk and .de. This covers domains with reported sales from $82,000 to $9.5 million so far in 2007 as of last week.

Then we can jumpover to the "Global contenders. Their range for the year is $15,000 to $300k. Here is the BIG answer. Of the top 100 there are 28 .mobi's occupying those spots.

.net = 43
.mobi = 28
.org = 16
.info = 9

Lastly the country codes. With the exception of two 6 figure sales, the range was $10-$85k. That also included .cc, .tv IDN and some 335 individual country codes competing for this spots. So if you just sit there and study Ron's page and FOLLOW THE MONEY, it is pretty easy to pick the finalists. You pick them from REALITY by sales not wishful thinking by me or you or anyone.

Here are the extensions in the order of what the MARKET says by actual real world reported sales.

.com
.net
.org
.mobi
.info

Then .co.uk, .de, .tv, .us, idn


http://www.dnjournal.com/ytd-sales-charts.htm

Follow the money, look at the numbers, gage the market, don't listen to rumors. The newest extension on the list is outperforming extensions out for many years. THAT is the reality. They may become another "Tulip" run. But at this point nobody can say definitively either way. Those that think they know on either side, know nothing. It's just too early to tell.

Have a GREAT day!
Rick Schwartz

Posted at 03:16 PM | Permalink | Comments (23) | TrackBack (0)

 

[sashas]

Sashas has a valid point.
Where are the big end users ? So far I see domainers grabbing the most generic keywords and driving prices up.
For some reason Sony didn't think it was worthwhile to bid for music.mobi.
Oh wait Sony has got sony.mobi, still under construction but they may have other priorities after all.
At least they got their name as a defensive registration, basically the branding team did their job and that's it.

As for the .eu fiasco the extension was killed by greed, mishandling from Eurid, and excessive speculation. I see a similar scenario taking shape with .mobi.
OK I know I lack the 'vision' but the blind perceive things that most people don't


Good point but... back in 1995 the Internet wasn't that big and it was still easy to overlook the WWW (even for Micro$oft). In 2007 you have no excuse for not knowing what a domain name is.


Prime example of a man who wanted one name whatever the price.
Unfortunately it seems too many people have interpreted that purchase as a vote of confidence in .mobi. It isn't.

We don't know the entire deal with Flowers.mobi

Keep in mind that the entire .mobi feeding frenzy was virtually started after that $200,000 Flowers.mobi sale.

Hmm...maybe I'm just paranoid, but some folks might've benefited a lot from that one sale. .mobi regs virtually shot up within days..Maybe thats why Jay questioned that sale?

And the end user question is what I'm asking. People keep posting, "But Nokia got Nokia.mobi, why would it need Phones.mobi?"
Cause they sell phones, duh!
Same reason Universal or Sony could do with Music.mobi

And I keep hearing this from folks that a big company will pay ANYTHING for a name that it wants. That Sony wouldn't mind paying more than a million bucks in 6 months for Music.mobi (at least thats the logic Alvaro went by).

Do you really think big companies like paying for ANYTHING, especially domains? Ever heard of "Reverse Hijacking"? Ever wondered why a big company would rather take you to court than pay the xxx,xxx amount for a .com name? Big companies can be really really cheap. They pose as small, home businesses when acquiring names and all sorts of cheap tactics. I think this illusion needs to go that big companies will pay anything for a domain. Not unless its absolutely essential.

 

[Theo]

Usually start-ups pay fair market value for domains they must have.

 

[Fearless]

Where's the lawsuit filed?

 

[simon]

yea an update would be appreciated

 

[B.King]

He is thanking the gods (and sedo) he didnt win it

 

[katherine]

I guess there are no news to report

musicdotmobi
Gold Lifetime Member


Last Online: 12-31-2007 12:13 AM

For sure I would think twice before suing
Now it will be funny to watch the next auctions.

 

[jasdon11]

From mTLD

07 February 2008

December Online Auction: Next Steps

dotMobi would like to update the community on our efforts to resolve the issues relating to the Sedo auction that took place last December. We recognise that some people have been frustrated by the pace at which things have been moving, but this has been an extremely complex and difficult issue with many moving parts. That said, we are happy to report that significant progress has been made in the last couple of weeks.

We have now reached out to all of the auction stakeholders -- both the high bidders in the extended auction and those who received a notice in error as a result of the crash. We put a compromise proposal on the table and asked for feedback. Fewer than 10 of the more than 70 stakeholders rejected our proposal; since the proposal appears to have the support of the community, we are now moving forward with it. In the small number of cases where competing claims remain, we will provide appropriate assurances to the bidder entitled to the name under our proposal.

We will be contacting each bidder individually over the next few days, but the next steps will be as follows:

1. We have already delivered the authorisation codes for the names to Sedo for release in accordance with the proposal.
2. Each stakeholder will receive a detailed Agreement that describes the settlement, states our mutual obligations and releases claims arising in connection with the auction.
3. Sedo will release the codes once the stakeholder has faxed a signed copy of the Agreement to Sedo and wired the necessary funds to their Sedo account.
4. We will then begin to release the declined and substitute names to those who have faxed the signed Agreements to Sedo.

Clearly, the sooner people fax the Agreements and wire the funds, the quicker they will be in a position to register the names. And to participate in the allocation of declined and substitute names, signed Agreements must also be faxed to Sedo.

As we reach these final stages, we would like to thank everyone involved for their patience and understanding throughout this entire process. It has certainly been a unique experience with valuable lessons learned on all sides. The passion and commitment demonstrated by the community for .mobi domains has been extraordinary and that is what excites us most as we draw a line under this chapter and move on.

Now it will be funny to watch the next auctions.

Care to make any predictions.

 

[namewaiter]

why don't you all go to http://pc.mtld.mobi - there you will find updates on the sedo auctions, the lack of public speak is because they are in negotiations with all those involved, the vast majority agree with the paths taken.

oops ... see above

 

[Devil Dog]

From mTLD

07 December 2008? :?:

 

[jasdon11]

07 December 2008? :?:

Sorry - that should read February not December - I missed the date off when I copied it and put in the wrong one! Sunday evening - mind elsewhere....

 

[Gerry]

For sure I would think twice before suing

What do you think put a halt to the plannned 23 January 2008 auction? A goodwill gesture or pending litigation.

I guess some folks just will never get it, will they.

Yes, screw the sedo auction. Lets see what happens at the upcoming TRAFFIC auction and the conspiracy theories planted there.

So get your scripts in order now.

 

[katherine]

Anyway music.mobi is still up for grabs. Who is going to snap that beauty ?
I'm sure someone is going to step up and put their money where their mouth is

 

[namewaiter]

Anyway music.mobi is still up for grabs. Who is going to snap that beauty ?
I'm sure someone is going to step up and put their money where their mouth is

what the hell are you talking about? music.mobi is spoken for. does it show to be available somewhere?

 

[iDName]

.

 

[katherine]

what the hell are you talking about? music.mobi is spoken for. does it show to be available somewhere?

Yes that's what I mean. It's still available for sale from the registry.
If you had 600K to spare would you buy it ?

 

[Gerry]

Yes that's what I mean. It's still available for sale from the registry.
If you had 600K to spare would you buy it ?

If it is part of a legal battle (and it is) then it is not available to anyone.

Thus, cancellation of the auction re-do.

As for an extra 600K? You better damn well believe I would buy it. Along with Porn.mobi and a few others. Why? That is what people are looking for.

I would also go after ringtones (already sold and exchanged hands). The music industry is suffering big time but the one bright spot is the incredible money people are willing to pay for downloadable ringtones. And with the music industry getting royalties every time this happens, those are two gems to have now and in the future.

If you have a web enabled phone, just look at all the ads for music and ringtones.

So imagine setting up your own online presence or site dedicated solely to this. More than likely you would have those major labels contacting you to advertise on your site, paying you a monthly fee for banner ads (very effective even all the small screen) as well as paying you a PPC fee.

question;

Has there been too much good news about .mobi lately and most of they myths dispelled that we have to beat old dead threads back into new life?