Paypal Chargeback

[GT Web]

Now I am pissed...

I posted a message about this a month or so ago...about a site I sold where I stated that the traffic come from banners, and I quote from the sales thread: "it has some very major links and some free banners up that give it a lot of traffic."

The buyer didnt like the traffic sources, and has just made a chargeback. It shows the reversal as "pending" and now my acocunt has a -$1100 acocunt balanance (because only $50 was in there at the time of the chargeback).

Now what happens, I have responded to Paypal's email on the subject with my case. If the chargeback happens, how does Paypal get the money back from me? Do they just delete my account or what?

I really hope their system works here, because as many of you stated in the previous thread on the subject - I did nothing wrong.

If I win the case, the chargeback doesnt happen - correct?

What happens if I dont win and the chargeback is complete?

Thank you every much,
Daniel S

 

[darrenl]

I thought they could only do a chargeback within 7 days?

 

[GiantDomains]

Wow, you used paypal for a large transaction. Next time use escrow.com or ask for a certified check.

 

[GiantDomains]

I thought they could only do a chargeback within 7 days?

120 days

 

[skylight]

Paypal and any type of chargeback, they usually side on the buyer.

Next time if dealing with a large amount, it is better to use escrow.

 

[David G]

Paypal and any type of chargeback, they usually side on the buyer......

In my business experience (over many yrs) the credit card firms side against the merchant 100% of the time. The only exception is made if the seller has a SIGNED Agreement stating there are no refunds. Even stating no refunds in your offer terms or correspondence usually will not help as the buyer needs to date and sign for it to be effective.

PayPal will refund the money to the buyer within 45-days which is their policy if they decide agains you. Eventually they will likely file suit for the money at a court where they are located as you probably gave jurisdiction to them in their TOS, or else turn it over to a Collection Agency.

 

[A D]

Paypal does not usually offer seller protection if you tell them it was a service and not a tangible product.

They usually do not side with the buyer in this case. I have had a bunch reversed once I said it was a service or electronic product. To help protect this, if you are the one requesting the money, request it as a service and not goods.

-=DCG=-

 

[clemzonguy]

once I said it was a service or electronic product. To help protect this, if you are the one requesting the money, request it as a service and not goods.

Very wise move in fact I even point out in the money request title that it is for a "service" as well as select it. A lot of people that send money to me though will put it as a good by default so it's probably best if you initiate the request and select it. I also have a merchant account and a contract for services.

Are you saying that we should classify domain sales as services/electronic product instead of a good(other)? :bandit:

 

[David G]

Paypal does not usually offer seller protection if you tell them it was a service and not a tangible product. They usually do not side with the buyer in this case. I have had a bunch reversed once I said it was a service or electronic product. To help protect this, if you are the one requesting the money, request it as a service and not goods. -=DCG=-

Interesting, did not know that. Not experienced about PayPal chargebacks as I was referring to siding with buyer 100% of the time regarding the major credit card banks.

What happens at PayPal if it is a a service (not tangible) but the buyer and seller both do NOT do the protection programs, or it is not available due to being a service (or electronic product) and not tangible?

 

[Luc]

Paypal does not usually offer seller protection if you tell them it was a service and not a tangible product.

Exactly.

A friend was in a smiliar situation about 2 years back. PayPal actually pulled
the money out of his bank account (the one that was registered with PayPal
for instant transfers, etc). I thought that was kinda crazy!

Luc L.

 

[GT Web]

So what will happen, will the money be pulled out of my bank account if I lose...?

What is the usual way Paypal deals with this?

 

[GT Web]

I do want to thank you all for giving me feedback and help...

I thought this was safe to do via Paypal - I am pretty sure I was wrong....

So what are the chances I win this case? and what happens if I lose it?

That scares me (the story about pulling cash out of bank accounts) but that was 2 years ago, and now Paypal is under Ebay's ownership, so it might not be the same.

 

[namedropper]

If anything, being owned by eBay will just make them more ruthless in getting money from you if they want it.

 

[David G]

So what will happen, will the money be pulled out of my bank account if I lose...? What is the usual way Paypal deals with this?

I understand with PayPal they will freeze the disputed amount right away if the funds are in the account while in dispute status. With bank merchant accts it is even worse as they actually will take the money out of your bank acct even BEFORE you are notified of a dispute, and have a chance to defend the chargeback. Later on they will redeposit the money in the very unlikely event that you win.

The only time you will win (IMO) is if you have a signed no refund agreement, or occasionally you can win by luck if the buyer is not too forceful or even becomes neglectful in pursuing his chargeback request.

 

[GiantDomains]

To help protect this, if you are the one requesting the money, request it as a service and not goods.

-=DCG=-

Actually, the best protection is to not accept a credit card payment through paypal. Ask that they use an instant payment, check, or their paypal balance, but not a cc. CC are protected for the full purchase amount, but paypal transactions are only insured for $200. So if you sell a domain via paypal for $1000, accept a check or instant payment via paypal, and they dispute it, the most they will get is $200, and they get that from paypal.

 

[GT Web]

great to know...but how do you know how they paid for the item?

also, the buyer already told me he deleted the website files off his computer, does this mean if he wins the refund I can then say he did not send the item back and get my money back again?

argh, I wish I knew all this before I completed the sale - but its good advice for next time

 

[theparrot]

I do want to thank you all for giving me feedback and help...

I thought this was safe to do via Paypal - I am pretty sure I was wrong....

So what are the chances I win this case? and what happens if I lose it?

That scares me (the story about pulling cash out of bank accounts) but that was 2 years ago, and now Paypal is under Ebay's ownership, so it might not be the same.

you do a search for 'paypal sucks' to hear many stories to scare you if you want, or avoid it for now to not be. Paypal is really not so friendly to either the buyer or the seller in many ways, this is one of the reasons I hope some of the competors gain some foothold. Paypal already acts like a monopoly these days.

 

[GiantDomains]

I believe GT will use escrow.com now, for all transactions over a few hundred bucks ;-)

 

[puravida]

That scares me (the story about pulling cash out of bank accounts) but that was 2 years ago, and now Paypal is under Ebay's ownership, so it might not be the same.

I would bet you $$ that they pull it out of your account without notification. And, if you have insufficient funds, you'll get an overdraft charge and paypal won't care one bit.

The whole auto-draft thing has gotten way out of hand. If it were me (not legal advice), I would put fake banking/cc info on the account to buy some time. I will probably get flamed for saying that, but I don't care.

I've been so screwed over by all these monopolistic, unfair business practices; that I've begun to fight fire-with-fire. And, I am winning. They don't get their money, so they begin the line of communication; I play hardball, and eventually we settle.

Remember, not legal advice, but it's works for me.

-Wesley

 

[theparrot]

great to know...but how do you know how they paid for the item?

also, the buyer already told me he deleted the website files off his computer, does this mean if he wins the refund I can then say he did not send the item back and get my money back again?

argh, I wish I knew all this before I completed the sale - but its good advice for next time

I missed this before, it was a forum right? For any website, but especially a forum, it being offline is 'damage' to its worth. He is already not able to return the goods in proper form, if he did this, and took it off line during the dispute. This was a bad faith move on his part.

For example what happens to the posts and members that joined during his reign?