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[secretary.com] stolen domain

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izoot

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Izopod what you seem to miss is that if it was taken from his account by enom unjustly...it is not Chris's responsibility if that is the case.

That needs to be determined ... and it hasn't as of yet.

I don't think anyone here or on the other site wants Hal to lose his money or name.

What is unreasonable about asking Hal to look into the Enom matter ... as he was listed as last registrant? It certainy would take away any doubt about this ... wouldn't it?

IF it was taken unjustly from Hal by Enom ...the name should be returned to him, correct?

Or should it just go undealt with?

imho
 

izopod

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Originally posted by izoot
Izopod what you seem to miss is that if it was taken from his account by enom unjustly...it is not Chris's responsibility if that is the case.


When you "broker" a name, you are in a sense saying that the "domain" is free and clear of any hold on it. If it were determined to be stolen, then it would never make it to the buyer's account in the first place. I don't doubt that Chris didn't think this wasn't a legit deal. However I think from now on he will choose his people more carefully. My beef with Chris is that his comments didn't seem to be "concerned" enough. It wasn't until a little more pressure was applied that he did admit he was "trying everything".

As far as anything, else... I don't take it personally. Except for when you try to "spin" or use "gobbley-gook" language to try and suppress the importance of a matter.

Every member here matters. To the point, that we should be concerned. That is all.
 

Mr Webname

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Originally posted by izopod



I don't care about evidence?? Boy even for you Mr W., that was a pretty low, blow. I think I deserve better than that.
I presented information concerning a misunderstanding of one member about chris offering the domain in the Domain Brokerage forum and that it was another member who offered it there - you said you didn't care about that evidence. However it is important to know some of the history of this domain - I believe that the fact that another member offered the name for sale is an important piece of evidence! How did he gain "access" to the name? Does he have information concerning it's history, or of Chad?

The facts seem to be laid out here very well. Both "main" participants have agreed something went wrong. DCC paid $2k for a name, that is no longer in his account. If, I'm wrong on these facts please let me know!!!

I suggest you re-read some of John Berryhill's posts izopod it may help with readjusting your thinking concerning "facts" and "proof" of a wrong being committed.

As far as my "speaking" on behalf of the community, I feel I have put in enough time here to speak to a "wrong". Not a "alleged" wrong. See point made above with respect to the "two main" participants.
???
 

izoot

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Originally posted by izopod


When you "broker" a name, you are in a sense saying that the "domain" is free and clear of any hold on it.

*********
A)
No doubt, the name should be free clear and not stolen. I agree Completely

So far I have not seen anything that would show me that Chris knew it was anything other than legit.

*********

If it were determined to be stolen, then it would never make it to the buyer's account in the first place. I don't doubt that Chris didn't think this wasn't a legit deal. However I think from now on he will choose his people more carefully.

*********
A)
Its still hasn't been determined the name was stolen ... as it stands ... It could be Enom that stole it.

I also have no doubt that Chris will be MUCH more diligent about who and what he brokers from now on.

*********

My beef with Chris is that his comments didn't seem to be "concerned" enough. It wasn't until a little more pressure was applied that he did admit he was "trying everything".

*********
A)
I can't speak for Chris, I have no idea how concerned or not he was/is. I know I would be very concerned about this. And in trying everything, maybe a tad bit more patience from Hal would have been good and maybe alittle help getting the info from Enom would have been helpful as well... Not just offering his opinion of Mary and ending it there

**********

As far as anything, else... I don't take it personally. Except for when you try to "spin" or use "gobbley-gook" language to try and suppress the importance of a matter.

**********
A)
I'm not trying to spin anything. The situation isn't as cut and dry as you would like to make it.

There are 3 things at stake here:

1) Reputations

2) A fair amount of money

3) A very valuable Domain

Therefore, it is not unreasonable to ask that all aspects be looked at and taken into account.

If it turns out that the name is stolen the by all means Hal should get back every penny, but without his help in getting Enom docs it is very difficult to determine anything as fact and not circumstantial evidence.

************

Every member here matters. To the point, that we should be concerned. That is all.

***********

I agree totally and appreciate your taking that on, I think we all appreciate that.

***********

 

izopod

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The fact is:

1. Your first comments about where this domain was bought, was supposed to leave us to believe that because of this, DNF shouldn't be involved in the matter---Take a look at your own posts.

2. If you look at your post where you claimed I didn't care about the evidence, it had nothing to do about my telling you "location" of the purchase didn't matter. You simply tried to apply an insuitation there that wasn't appreciated.

3. John Berryhill's comments are helpful. Your comments have shown you to be "defensive" for no reason at all. I think you went into that "Fox hole" position as soon as it was clear a few members didn't appreciate the statement that "DNF will not be involved in this matter".

4. My whole position in this has been about the money. DCC apparently wants his $2k back. I don't blame him, nor should you. I can't speak to why he is not speaking, or why he isn't mad at enom instead of Chris, or why he feels DNF has let him down, but I can tell you one thing Mr. W. You will never have my loyalty.

signed

Izopod


Originally posted by Mr Webname
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by izopod



I don't care about evidence?? Boy even for you Mr W., that was a pretty low, blow. I think I deserve better than that.
I presented information concerning a misunderstanding of one member about chris offering the domain in the Domain Brokerage forum and that it was another member who offered it there - you said you didn't care about that evidence. However it is important to know some of the history of this domain - I believe that the fact that another member offered the name for sale is an important piece of evidence! How did he gain "access" to the name? Does he have information concerning it's history, or of Chad?

The facts seem to be laid out here very well. Both "main" participants have agreed something went wrong. DCC paid $2k for a name, that is no longer in his account. If, I'm wrong on these facts please let me know!!!

I suggest you re-read some of John Berryhill's posts izopod it may help with readjusting your thinking concerning "facts" and "proof" of a wrong being committed.

As far as my "speaking" on behalf of the community, I feel I have put in enough time here to speak to a "wrong". Not a "alleged" wrong. See point made above with respect to the "two main" participants.
???
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WebCat

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So here's the other thread:

http://dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=39392&highlight=secretary.com

If the domain was stolen, why did Hal say he bought it, in his own words on September 20th (6 weeks ago)? And who did he get it from? Is this the sale we are all talking about?

And who the heck is DNFoum member "DDENT", (Daniel) who was selling this domain in mid-September ???? Is ddent<=>Chad??

The plot gets thicker........

WebCat

ps- Izopod, I don't understand why you are talking about DNForum and NOT the possibly stolen domain? This discussion is not about DNF.
 

Mr Webname

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No further comment izopod, its a distraction from the issue.
 

izopod

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Originally posted by Mr Webname
No further comment izopod, its a distraction from the issue.

agreed...
 

ShaunP

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DCC ... have you contacted Enom.com and Netsol.com to get their version of what went on? And if you have, what did they say? This seems to me the first thing I would do... just a thought though.

Shaun
 

WebCat

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Izopod and MrWebname? Spoken like true gentlemen...... and Domain Professionals as well!
 

jberryhill

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"When you "broker" a name, you are in a sense saying that the "domain" is free and clear of any hold on it. "

When you do anything with domain names - and this hangs like a cloud over every aspect of domain name transactions - you also know that registrars do nutty unpredictable things, and that the registration contracts give them a lot of discretion and immunize them from practically everything.

When you sell a domain name, you simply can't be the permanent guarantor of whether the registrar might do something arbitrary and capricious in the future.

I was involved in a domain transaction a while back where the buyer wanted an absolute warranty that if he ever lost the domain name through no fault of his own, that he would get a full refund. I had to advise my client not to make that warranty and back out of the deal, because if you are going to hang your rep on the reliability of a domain registrar, you are not going to live long and prosper.

Here's the thing. If Chris pays Hal the $2K right now, and next month someone determines that this was a registrar error and the domain name was not stolen. Then will you be here again insisting that Hal re-pay the $2K, the remaining installment payments, and calling for him to be banned from DNForum?

One way of looking at the situation is, "Hal paid $2K for a domain name and he doesn't have the name now, therefore Chris owes him money."

Another way of looking at it is, "Chris said Hal would be transferred the domain name for $2K. Hal paid, and the domain name was transferred to him, therefore Chris does not owe him money."

This stuff gets ugly when people seek "self-help". I have seen credible death threats made over allegedly stolen domain names which have turned out not to have been stolen. I have seen hacking attempts, denial-of-service attacks, spam "Joe Jobs", you name it.

"IF it was taken unjustly from Hal by Enom ...the name should be returned to him, correct?"

"Should"? Yes, but that would be between Hal and Enom, and would have no impact on the situation with Chris. Of course, Hal should then continue to pay the remaining installments.

The sense of conclusiveness and certainty on one side of this issue is disturbing. There are some signs on the other side of the issue that are also disturbing. Chris' comment that Hal is somehow slowing down resolution by posting here makes no sense, and sounds more like "shut up" than "help out". Hal can turn Dnforum into his personal blog if he would like, but that shouldn't slow Chris down one bit. Another problem is that Chris correctly notes that it can take time to sort things out, but Chris doesn't seem to have a grip on a definite condition that would resolve things for him one way or the other. For example, Chad's "main" phone is now disconnected (implying that some other phone is not), and Chris has not been able to contact Chad. Well, what happens if Chad has disappeared and Chris is never able to contact him - is Hal supposed to wait forever? I don't think so.

"Hal all I ask is that you are patient; I’m doing the best I can."

No. You are not.

When you fax Hal a copy of a bank statement showing that $2K has been put in an interest-bearing account pending resolution of this matter, then you will be closer to doing the best you can. Your representation that this was a legitimate deal was a material factor in Hal's entry into the deal. You do not seem to acknowledge that fact, nor your potential liability if this was not, in fact, a legitimate deal. Since you took money from Hal and there is a dispute over the legitimacy of the deal, it is perfectly reasonable for Hal to have to wait a reasonable length of time for the situation to be investigated to the mutual satisfaction of the parties as to the underlying facts. But in the meantime, you are not entitled to that money either.

In situations like this, the recipient of the payment will often simply place the disputed amount into a trust account to demonstrate good faith in that (a) they are not benefiting from the money, and (b) there will be a certain source of compensation with interest in view of the time it takes for resolution. Your failure to provide Hal with this or any other kind of security understably contributes to his agitation with you.

And, of course, DNForum should not take sides in any dispute of this nature. Mistakes happen, and things are not always what they seem. No good deed goes unpunished.
 

izopod

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Originally posted by jberryhill
"When you "broker" a name, you are in a sense saying that the "domain" is free and clear of any hold on it. "

When you do anything with domain names - and this hangs like a cloud over every aspect of domain name transactions - you also know that registrars do nutty unpredictable things, and that the registration contracts give them a lot of discretion and immunize them from practically everything.


Um... There are two competing theories here. A "legal" one, and a "moral" one. I am speaking to the "moral" one.

Oh, and just for the sake of space on DNF servers, I realize that there is no such thing as "morality".

izopodian theory on topcial matters: Keep it short, concise, and don't offer too many "possibilities". Otherwise you will defeat your purpose which is to "influence".
 

izopod

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Originally posted by jberryhill

And, of course, DNForum should not take sides in any dispute of this nature.

I believe they already have jb.... which is to not take a side

:-D


izopodian philosphy: Don't try to ride the fence too long, otherwise you might run out of fence.
 

DaddyHalbucks

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I contacted eNom today and I am awaiting a response.

:(

I also spoke with Mary Gallegos (again). She said it was DEFINITELY a theft, that wire fraud and other crimes were involved, that someone presented NSI with a forged Illinois drivers license with her name on it, and used that to renew the domain and then transfer it. She said that she was told that the perpetrator had stolen a number of domains using this technique. She speculated that NSI got her name back quickly to avoid liability.
 

WebCat

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DotComCowboy, you still haven't answered the questions from the other thread.... is this the same sale about which you posted 6 weeks ago?

Was cjmacd involved in that sale?

And is ddent (the posted broker of that sale) the person you purchased it from? Is ddent the same person as the mysterious "Chad" (hanging Chad??)
 

DaddyHalbucks

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DotComCowboy, you still haven't answered the questions from the other thread.... is this the same sale about which you posted 6 weeks ago?

I DON'T UNDERSTAND YOUR QUESTION. I BOUGHT THE DOMAIN FROM CHRIS, THEN LATER SAW ANOTHER PERSON SOLICITING IT ON THE BOARD WHO I PRESUMED WAS A BROKER. I RESPONDED TO INDICATE THAT THE DOMAIN WAS NOW OWNED BY ME AND NO LONGER AVAILABLE.

Was cjmacd involved in that sale?

SEE ABOVE

And is ddent (the posted broker of that sale) the person you purchased it from?

NO.

Is ddent the same person as the mysterious "Chad" (hanging Chad??)

I DO NOT KNOW.
 

WebCat

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Thank you Hal.

Now the chronology is much clearer! So you bought the domain PRIOR to ddent representing it about September 15th, correct?

It seems wierd that ddent would be representing a domain that was already sold! (unless he was in on it).

SO..... that would mean that ddent must have had some interaction with the alleged perpatrator! Has anyone contacted ddent? Is he still active?Perhaps he can shed some light on all this, and maybe he even knows where hanging Chad is!

Maybe he IS hanging Chad!

Perplexed WebCat
 

DaddyHalbucks

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Chris transferred the domain to my eNom account a day or two prior to me giving him the deposit (as I recall).

We may have agreed to the deal via IMs a day or two before domain transfer.

I paid the $1000 deposit to Chris on 9/23/2003.

I paid first month's payment of $1000 to him on 10/2/2003.
 

jberryhill

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"renew the domain and then transfer it."

That's always the part of the story that confuses me. Did she mean "redeem"?

Hi-jacking names in RGP seems relatively low-risk to some hi-jackers. The Internet Archive (again, not completely reliable) indicates the webpage hadn't been updated in some time. So the hi-jackers assumption on some names in RGP would be that the original registrant wouldn't notice, and they can thus get the name with forged documents since "nobody will know or care" and thus get the name before it goes to the drop services.

That's what her story sounds like, but whenever it gets to the point of "renewed and transferred", it sounds like someone hitting the wrong note on the factual piano.
 

WebCat

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Ah! This is interesting! ddent (Daniel) posted that the domain was for SALE on September 16th! That was BEFORE you and Chris had effected either sale or transfer!

So.... WHO was in control of the domain at that time??? Was it Chris (cjmacd)?? Was ddent representing Chris?? Or the other way around? Were both working for hanging Chad?

There are players in this drama who have yet to make their entrance! Where is ddent? His last reported post was 10-25-2003. That was less than a week ago!

Hal and Chris, have you sent him a PM or email? His homepage is: http://www.omegasphere.net/ It looks like he is an eNom reseller.

Let's get some input from him about all this!
 
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