Sedo Lying About Factcheck.com

[MediaHound]

factcheck.org is the #3 searched keyword online today.

 

[jberryhill]

In the event of expiration of a domain's registration, or of a sale, or of any other transfer of ownership, an account holder is responsible for the removal of that domain name from his/her Sedo account.

So if the account holder dies, a domain name will never be removed, is that correct?

In the meantime, the world of non-SEDO account holders may never know that their domain names are indicated to be "for sale" at SEDO, and that very fact can be used as evidence against them in a UDRP proceeding (as if a Panel is going to believe the listing was not the responsibility of the current registrant).

In this instance, Ms. Owenby was motivated to remove the listing. In circumstances where the prior registrant is unreachable, what is the procedure for having one's domains removed from SEDO listings, and where is this procedure posted?

 

[SedoCoUk]

Again, John Berryhill Phd. Esq.,

"a simple email to Sedo is sufficient in ensuring the domain's timely deletion from our database.
Our administrative staff does not work weekends.
All requests/queries are processed on a rotational basis from Monday to Friday within working hours."

Once the current owner's details are reflected in the WHOIS, we can delete the domain in question upon receipt of an email from the domain's administrative contact outlining just such a request.

I'm afraid that I am not in a position to speculate as to whether or not a UDRP panel would believe a domain owner or his/her lawyer in a hypothetical UDRP proceeding about an unspecified domain name.

Please direct any other questions you may have pertaining to this matter to us by email here at Sedo.
It would be helpful if you could include specific details relating to your query (ie. Sedo log-in name, the domain in question and a brief outline of the issue in question)
I trust this will be the end of the matter.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback.

Kind Regards,

Nora Cotter
Key Account Manager
_______________________________________________

SEDO.COM :: Buy and Sell Domain Names and Websites

tel +49 (221)-420-758-287 :: fax +49 (212)-202-3951
email: [email protected] :: url: www.sedo.com

_______________________ :: make a name for yourself.

So if the account holder dies, a domain name will never be removed, is that correct?

In the meantime, the world of non-SEDO account holders may never know that their domain names are indicated to be "for sale" at SEDO, and that very fact can be used as evidence against them in a UDRP proceeding (as if a Panel is going to believe the listing was not the responsibility of the current registrant).

In this instance, Ms. Owenby was motivated to remove the listing. In circumstances where the prior registrant is unreachable, what is the procedure for having one's domains removed from SEDO listings, and where is this procedure posted?

 

[actnow]

I trust this will be the end of the matter.

Not to be disrespectful. But, I think they want this thread to die.

 

[izoot]

Hi Sedo...I'm not a programmer so I don't know how feasible a suggestion this is...

but couldn't it be written into the database to scan accounts and check for whois changes on the names listed in those accounts maybe once a month? Then maybe send an automated reply to those members with domains listed with different owners than listed in their account asking for verification of current ownership ... deleting the domain if they get no response or if it is no longer owned by them? If a name is deleted a auto email can be sent to account holder notifying them of it and then they can relist it if needed.

I have had names I had bought show up as still listed at Sedo in the previous owners accounts and Sedo was fine about removing them when I requested.

But how many names that are no longer are for sale aren't ever moved? You would think that Sedo ... being the biggest domain listing site out there (?) would want to take premptive action to protect themselves & their listers and if nothing else just have a accurate listing database...especially when it seems that it wouldn't be too terribly complex to do.

Again, John Berryhill Phd. Esq.,

"a simple email to Sedo is sufficient in ensuring the domain's timely deletion from our database.
Our administrative staff does not work weekends.
All requests/queries are processed on a rotational basis from Monday to Friday within working hours."

Once the current owner's details are reflected in the WHOIS, we can delete the domain in question upon receipt of an email from the domain's administrative contact outlining just such a request.

I'm afraid that I am not in a position to speculate as to whether or not a UDRP panel would believe a domain owner or his/her lawyer in a hypothetical UDRP proceeding about an unspecified domain name.

Please direct any other questions you may have pertaining to this matter to us by email here at Sedo.
It would be helpful if you could include specific details relating to your query (ie. Sedo log-in name, the domain in question and a brief outline of the issue in question)
I trust this will be the end of the matter.
Thanks to everyone for your feedback.

Kind Regards,

Nora Cotter
Key Account Manager
_______________________________________________

SEDO.COM :: Buy and Sell Domain Names and Websites

tel +49 (221)-420-758-287 :: fax +49 (212)-202-3951
email: [email protected] :: url: www.sedo.com

_______________________ :: make a name for yourself.

 

[Mr Webname]

Red rag and bull spring to mind!

 

[Theo]

The solution is obvious:

All account holders must confirm that their domains with Sedo are still active, say once a month by visiting a back-end page. In other words, Sedo should make the domain listings expire every 30 days - unless a confirmation checkbox is selected within 5 days of the expiration.

 

[jberryhill]

Not to be disrespectful. But, I think they want this thread to die.

Which is fine. The point has been made.

 

[Nexus]

--especially when it seems that it wouldn't be too terribly complex to do.

Geez. I think people underestimate the task at hand, and very unfairly. Sedo doesn't CHARGE for listings. It's a FREE listing service. What you're suggesting, is that Sedo provides FREE domain name monitoring for ALL the names in its system.

Remember how SnapNames *stopped* doing this a long time ago, even though it was limited to 10 free "monitors"? Moreover, what's worse is this... deleted names are AUTO-RENEWED, so you can't trust the registry whois, and even more... you can't always trust the registrar whois either. Trust me... whois monitoring is NOT a process to be taken lightly.

What if its transferred to another party? And then another? Renewed twice, before someone looks at Sedo puzzled as to WHY their name is listed?

The solution is obvious:
All account holders must confirm that their domains with Sedo are still active, say once a month by visiting a back-end page. In other words, Sedo should make the domain listings expire every 30 days - unless a confirmation checkbox is selected within 5 days of the expiration.

Every 30 days? I think that's an *awful* solution. People are lazy. The service would suffer for such a regulation. No one wants to confirm anything every 30 days, especially if they've got a large number of names listed there (also think about the cascading list/expire dates).

The only thing I can think of, is this... at the time a name is added into the system, the expiry date is recorded (as it probably is already). When this expiry date runs out, registrants are asked to return to the website and "reconfirm" their listings. At that time, a NEW expiry date is pulled, and the listing continues. If listings are not re-confirmed at these times, then the listing will expire. This is also a HUGE undertaking with mailing out e-mails to people regularly, performing a job similar to a registrar, and chancing the possibility of accidentally "expiring" legitimate listings due to oversights.

But, at least that's more possible I'd think. I'm sure Sedo has done a lot of thinking on this, so I imagine suggestions to them would need to have some solid thinking behind them as well. Especially considering the nature of their business and the terms of the service.

~ Nexus

 

[Theo]

Geez. I think people underestimate the task at hand, and very unfairly. Sedo doesn't CHARGE for listings. It's a FREE listing service. What you're suggesting, is that Sedo provides FREE domain name monitoring for ALL the names in its system.

Remember how SnapNames *stopped* doing this a long time ago, even though it was limited to 10 free "monitors"? Moreover, what's worse is this... deleted names are AUTO-RENEWED, so you can't trust the registry whois, and even more... you can't always trust the registrar whois either. Trust me... whois monitoring is NOT a process to be taken lightly.

What if its transferred to another party? And then another? Renewed twice, before someone looks at Sedo puzzled as to WHY their name is listed?
Every 30 days? I think that's an *awful* solution. People are lazy. The service would suffer for such a regulation. No one wants to confirm anything every 30 days, especially if they've got a large number of names listed there (also think about the cascading list/expire dates).

The only thing I can think of, is this... at the time a name is added into the system, the expiry date is recorded (as it probably is already). When this expiry date runs out, registrants are asked to return to the website and "reconfirm" their listings. At that time, a NEW expiry date is pulled, and the listing continues. If listings are not re-confirmed at these times, then the listing will expire. This is also a HUGE undertaking with mailing out e-mails to people regularly, performing a job similar to a registrar, and chancing the possibility of accidentally "expiring" legitimate listings due to oversights.

But, at least that's more possible I'd think. I'm sure Sedo has done a lot of thinking on this, so I imagine suggestions to them would need to have some solid thinking behind them as well. Especially considering the nature of their business and the terms of the service.

~ Nexus

First of all, this is not "free listing" as Sedo makes money out of advertisers and passes a portion of the revenue onto the owner of the domains.

Second, even with hundreds of domains, a "domainer" worth his or her salt would only take a few seconds to be alerted to those domains that need to be confirmed, on a monthly basis. From a programming standpoint it's very easy. From the standpoint of John's argument, it's the best solution.

Those that don't update their listings simply have to re-list the domains. Craigs List works this way as well.

 

[Nexus]

First of all, this is not "free listing" as Sedo makes money out of advertisers and passes a portion of the revenue onto the owner of the domains.

It IS a free listing. If you never sell anything, its FREE. How many people never sell anything. I'd say a WHOLE LOT.

Second, even with hundreds of domains, a "domainer" worth his or her salt would only take a few seconds to be alerted to those domains that need to be confirmed, on a monthly basis. From a programming standpoint it's very easy. From the standpoint of John's argument, it's the best solution.

You have a lot of faith in people. If any website whose service I used, forced me to come back and reaffirm my usage every month, I'd quickly stop using it, even if I met all the criteria, and it cost me nothing. I just listed a name with Sedo. If I needed to confirm I was still selling it every month, I'd let it expire after 2 months, even if I was still interested in selling. I would assume Sedo wasn't worthwhile, and move on, even though 4 months down the line, the right buyer may indeed come along.

Those that don't update their listings simply have to re-list the domains. Craigs List works this way as well.

I think Craig's list is comparing Apples to Oranges. The nature of the listing is different. Maybe Sedo should due like Afternic and just charge $9.95 a year for a listing membership, and simply expire all listings if the member does not renew.

A different idea would be to have a Seller specific a LISTING time of 1 month to 1 year (with increments of 3 months), would probably work well too, and have people confirm every year.

The 30 day thing would imo, throw the baby out with the bath water.

~ Nexus

 

[Theo]

Sedo might as well add a clause in their T's & C's that they are to be indemnified in case of a UDRP caused by an erroneous listing and be done with it.

What I propose works and if some people are too lazy to understand it then they might as well stop using Sedo.

I compared Craigs List to my proposed listing renewal after 30 days, simply because with CL when your ad expires you get a notice to renew it. If you don't, it expires for good.

 

[Nexus]

What I propose works and if some people are too lazy to understand it then they might as well stop using Sedo.

I don't think not wanting to be bugged by e-mails every month, requiring you to sign-in and revalidate everything you'd already confirmed 30 days prior is lazy. We'll disagree then. I think there is a reality to what people want to put up with, no matter what names and negative attributes you'd like to attach to them.

I compared Craigs List to my proposed listing renewal after 30 days, simply because with CL when your ad expires you get a notice to renew it. If you don't, it expires for good.

I get WHY you'd compare them but considering the more volatile nature of goods of CL site (apartment for rent, job opening, personals), it makes sense. Conversely, how many Internet domain name websites to you see up year after year with legitimate listings in search of buyers? I see tons. I've made offers to some and gotten responses. I get the very real legal issue, and that's why I made my own suggestions for viable ideas, and still think the 30 days rule would be flawed.

Imo, you make listing a chore and you kill your business by depleting lots of legitimate listing, from people who list in multiple places, and dn't want to keep "managing" listings at Sedo for some arbitrary 30 day rule. You can call people "lazy" all you want, but unless you yourself run a domain listing business, I don't get the impression you're concerned about the viability of such a move. I don't run one either, but that's why I give some latitude for those that due about the terms of service they've worked hard to hammer out.

Sedo might as well add a clause in their T's & C's that they are to be indemnified in case of a UDRP caused by an erroneous listing and be done with it.

Just voicing my opinion that I disagree that what you mentione is the best policy for the business. I just think there's a less harmful compromise somewhere.

~ Nexus

 

[izoot]

Geez. I think people underestimate the task at hand, and very unfairly. Sedo doesn't CHARGE for listings. It's a FREE listing service. What you're suggesting, is that Sedo provides FREE domain name monitoring for ALL the names in its system.

~ Nexus

As I said..I am not a programmer and don't know the details of what it would involve. Maybe Rad's suggestion of a auto generated confirmation email ( a reminder to check your portfolio ) every 30 days would be the answer. Thats seems easy enough as its just prompting the account holder to log in and make changes...at least that way no one can claim anything against Sedo.

But in response to your saying its free. Ya sure its free to list it...but if its sold Sedo stands to make a nice % for simply listing the domain. Making their system accomodate these things would be a responsible thing for them to do...and could be factored in from the substansial profits they are making from sales. in their defense other sites aren't doing anything different than Sedo is. Maybe its time for Sedo to take the lead and show the others how it should be done?

 

[jberryhill]

Imo, you make listing a chore and you kill your business by depleting lots of legitimate listing, from people who list in multiple places,

By the same token, it can't help Sedo's reputation with prospective buyers if those buyers submit bids on name listed on a fixed-value basis, only to have Sedo turn around and tell them "Oh, that name is really not for sale at that price", and then presumably offer their brokerage services instead. In fact, as I think about it, that could explain some other behavior I've seen recently...

But wouldn't you feel as if you'd been fed a bait-and-switch under those circumstances?

(and, yes, I'm sure that somewhere in the terms of use, there is something to the effect that a listing doesn't guarantee the domain name is available at that price, but that clause is probably not uppermost in the mind of the typical customer at Sedo).

There are some valuable and constructive suggestions here.

 

[options]

I think Sedo does nothing wrong really.
It is between buyer and seller to carefully stipulate all the terms of sale, including seller's removal
of all sales listings and ads in any media, not limited to internet.
Sedo confirms they remove a listing upon proof of domain name rights, so nothing wrong here.

 

[jberryhill]

Sedo confirms they remove a listing upon proof of domain name rights, so nothing wrong here.

Other than the fact that the rest of the world, which doesn't know or care about Sedo, is blissfully unaware that Sedo may be making it appear as if their domain names are for sale.

A Sedo listing can be used against you as evidence of bad faith in a UDRP proceeding:

http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2004/d2004-0016.html
"The Domain Name was offered for sale on the website of <sedo.de> on August 19, 2003, at a price of USD 2,500"

http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/decisions/html/2004/d2004-0454.html

"Thus, when typing on the Internet the domain name in dispute, the surfer is redirected to the “www.sedo.com” site, where the Respondent requests bids to sell the domain in question"

Now, if you feel as if a UDRP Panel is going to believe you saying, "Well, shucks, I know the domain name was listed at Sedo as being for sale, but, trust me oh biased-ones, it wasn't really for sale" then may the Good Lord bless you.

The point here is that it is incumbent on every domain registrant, who has no involvement with Sedo, to go and check whether their domain names are listed with Sedo. Okay, fine. Now, you want to send out some kind of universal opt-out announcement to that effect to everyone who has a domain name?

Or, can there be some mechanism for confirming the continued validity of listings without outsourcing the job to the rest of the planet? I believe there can.

 

[options]

Other than the fact that the rest of the world, which doesn't know or care about Sedo, is blissfully unaware that Sedo may be making it appear as if their domain names are for sale.

Just like anywhere else where such an ad could appear.
Consider the ad running in a local newspaper, where previous name holder paid a weekly
appearance of the ad for the full year, or having it for free for lifetime.

A Sedo listing can be used against you as evidence of bad faith in a UDRP proceeding:

Now, ANYTHING can be used in any kind of court against anyone.
UDRP is not an authority in regulating domain trading and most of the world don't care about those jokers either.
Their decisions are often influenced by wheather conditions and not by reasonable facts.

 

[MediaHound]

I buy/sell/develop domains, I am not into politics

Some good reading right up your alley, (domain removed) :smartass: :
http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=115867
"Britain's governing political party has been caught red-handed registering a series of website addresses in the name of the Conservative Leader - a practice known as 'cyber-squatting' - despite a declaration from a Government minister condemning the practice."

 

[seeker]

ok, I would have prefered that by PM

I'll remove the sig
lol