Stealing

Originally posted by RealNames
Really Miles, don't you think you are grossly exagerating the possibilty of this being wrong or a fraud claim?

No.

Miles

 

agree with namethink,

hard to say the company no longer exists without checking bankruptcy records or something similar, even if that was the case that the co really is bankrupt its likely that creditors would still be legally entitled to the assets. Just because the owner is hard to track down doesn't mean its ok to steal something.

 

[jalapeno]

A few months ago I was trying to get use of a domain name for a client which another web designer had registered for him a couple of years before -- but it wasn't registered in my client's name, it was registered in the designer's name. Emails to the guy bounced, he didn't answer at the phone number listed, and he didn't appear to be in business anymore.

If I could have used the admin contact email to obtain the domain at that time, I would have, knowing that the domain should have been my client's in the first place and the guy who registered it obviously didn't have any further interest and was unreachable.

 

[stuff]

Originally posted by jalapeno
A few months ago I was trying to get use of a domain name for a client which another web designer had registered for him a couple of years before -- but it wasn't registered in my client's name, it was registered in the designer's name. Emails to the guy bounced, he didn't answer at the phone number listed, and he didn't appear to be in business anymore.

If I could have used the admin contact email to obtain the domain at that time, I would have, knowing that the domain should have been my client's in the first place and the guy who registered it obviously didn't have any further interest and was unreachable.

I would also!

 

[David G]

Originally posted by snoopy agree with namethink, hard to say the company no longer exists without checking bankruptcy records or something similar, even if that was the case that the co really is bankrupt its likely that creditors would still be legally entitled to the assets. Just because the owner is hard to track down doesn't mean its ok to steal something.

Everyone, please stop referring to what I said or quoting me as my posts were said in a different context and different issue.

This is what was posted earlier

Originally posted by RealNames There was a misunderstanding as pointed out by safesys. I would never do anything like that in a zillion yrs.

 

[DnPowerful]

I think it's slightly hypocritical of a few of you to bark so loudly.

Of course it's wrong to steal a name, but all of you must admit that it's tempting--and that's what makes this discussion worthwhile. It speaks to the mania surrounding these pieces of air that you can turn into big cash.

What you or I do with temptation marks our character, but to say it isn't tempting is to fudge a bit. I think the reason this strikes a chord is because increasingly we realize that in order to get a good name, we might do things that are seriously unfair (ie pay off an owner of a big connection) and actually sit ourselves on the margin between what is kosher and what is not.

In short: May the best person win, but short of that, I or you will do everything we can within the boundries of law to get a whale name. I personally am not a drop catcher, as previously noted, so this is hypothetical, but similar rules--or lack thereof--apply in my game.

I think the one situation that perhaps realnames or others might see as morally challening is when a company or idea goes belly up, and the name is forgotten--no usage, outdated email, expiry dates long past and upaid--there is this feeling: "Hey, why should I let a drop catcher get this? I'm merely one step ahead of the game."

Let me repeat: Obviously this is wrong and fraudulent, especially if you do anything that is effectively stealing by any definition, but we must admit that in this game where the stakes can be do high, the boundries can get blurred.

For me personally, it's on that line that you find out who you really are, and your blithe neologisms get forged into practical reality.

Simply: How far am I willing to go to make a killing?

 

[DnPowerful]

http://www.wowfunny.com/pictures/martha.jpg

 

[Capt. Flash]

Originally posted by snoopy
agree with namethink,

hard to say the company no longer exists without checking bankruptcy records or something similar, even if that was the case that the co really is bankrupt its likely that creditors would still be legally entitled to the assets. Just because the owner is hard to track down doesn't mean its ok to steal something.

Bankruptcy Judges in the USA do not consider domain names "assets", due to the required renewal process. They are actually in the liability category due to the "rental nature" of renewing the name. Therefore, the court appointed administrator is not allowed to renew the name, they can only notify the registrar of the bankruptcy proceedings, which prevents them from releasing the name until the case is discharged. Case in point I grabbed "Bazillion.com", which was a well known company that went bankrupt, and have snap backs on several others. In the next few months you will see the casualties from the .com bubble burst become available.
I am not a lawyer, but pay one a great deal of money. This particular question came up as I needed advice on the liability the could come about after registering one of these names from a bankrupt company. I would advise everyone to seek competent leagal advice on such issues and not rely on forum postings.

 

"Therefore, the court appointed administrator is not allowed to renew the name, they can only notify the registrar of the bankruptcy proceedings, which prevents them from releasing the name until the case is discharged. "

Easier said than done. My partner wanted to buy a two letter.com of a bankrupt company two years ago. Despite his plea and contact with the bankrupt company, the name dropped. The Registrar did nothing but watch it go.....

 

[Capt. Flash]

Originally posted by nameinvestor
"Therefore, the court appointed administrator is not allowed to renew the name, they can only notify the registrar of the bankruptcy proceedings, which prevents them from releasing the name until the case is discharged. "

Easier said than done. My partner wanted to buy a two letter.com of a bankrupt company two years ago. Despite his plea and contact with the bankrupt company, the name dropped. The Registrar did nothing but watch it go.....

I would then assume the court appointed administrator did not properly inform the registrar of the bankruptcy proceedings. It is my experience that most business professionals and attorneys are not very sophisticated in "domain name matters" (like speculators are). I imagine two years ago it was even worse. Also in that time frame he probably had to deal with NSI. Unless your partner was an actual documented creditor his plea would have legally been ignored since the domain name was not considered an asset to sell. Strange huh.

 

[fizz]

A week ago on August 24th I noticed a Florida operation had registered a domain name which was being used as the admin contact e-mail address for a number of valuable names – mainly adult – that were owned by a New York multimedia publishing group.

The company that owns them may not be trading any more and some of their domain names had lame-deleagtion.org servers listed, but were not due to expire until next year.

Two years ago the New York publishing group got smacked with a huge lawsuit after it fraudulently obtained millions of dollars in credit card payments from consumers for browsing porn web pages or taking online tours that were advertised as free.

I did a whois just now on one of their high-profile domain names – probably worth 20k or more - and the registrant is now listed as the Florida company.

I can't say whether the NY firm sold the names to the Florida firm, or whether it's one of those lame-delegation.org situations. I took screenshots a week ago of the domain names as they stood then.