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For Sale "Thanks for your interest but we are not interested in a .ca domain"

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grcorp

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its been the exact opposite experience for me. if we want to find a canadian site we look for the .ca. the .com could just be the american version of the website as is the case for many brands, ebay, bestbuy, newegg, etc.

Precisely. Especially since the company in question is known to be a Canadian company.

---------- Post added at 12:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 AM ----------

1 - I can't imagine finding the time to do stuff like that for free on a regular basis, for businesses and people I don't even know.

I knew the company. In fact, most people from Ontario have probably heard of the company.

As for the time being worth it... remember, this will ultimately benefit me in the long run in the event that my controversial domains ever come into question as to who rightfully owns them.

In addition, another company who I did this for, who was an athletic apparel manufacturer, agreed to send me some free stuff once the transfer is taken care of. I didn't even expect that, so you can't say that this is entirely thankless, should the benefits be realized now or later.
 
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WhoDatDog

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Dotcom is KING. This is a great example of that. Sure, there are some people who can convince others that .ca is worth big money, but you just proved the value of dotcom. If you have to really convince someone that they should want a product, then that product is often times inferior.

I'm not buying the charity approach at all, either. The idea that you would spend money backordering names .ca just so some names don't fall into the wrong hands is laughable and not believable, period. I don't care if you have previous examples of turning over names or not, but that is just a bunch of bullshit.

Why not go to some homeless shelter and donate some time and money? Registering .ca names in an attempt to prevent injustice in the world might be the most ridiculous thing I have heard on these forums.

At least .ca is a legitimate extension, unlike .mobi, .co, and a host of others. The worldwide market says dotcom is KING. People can argue all day about the values of these other extensions, but obviously most companies aren't interested, even the ones from Canada. Names that don't get type-in traffic really aren't that great. If you have the dotcom version, and someone else has the same name in another extension, you really aren't harmed unless the other person sets up a site and tries to confuse the public in some way.

Businesses actually get it. Many domainers don't.
 

David G

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Agree. Also find it hard to believe he would do all that work and spend so much time in kindness to a company with no connection to him. Really strange to say the least.



Dotcom is KING. This is a great example of that. Sure, there are some people who can convince others that .ca is worth big money, but you just proved the value of dotcom. If you have to really convince someone that they should want a product, then that product is often times inferior.

I'm not buying the charity approach at all, either. The idea that you would spend money backordering names .ca just so some names don't fall into the wrong hands is laughable and not believable, period. I don't care if you have previous examples of turning over names or not, but that is just a bunch of bullshit.

Why not go to some homeless shelter and donate some time and money? Registering .ca names in an attempt to prevent injustice in the world might be the most ridiculous thing I have heard on these forums.

At least .ca is a legitimate extension, unlike .mobi, .co, and a host of others. The worldwide market says dotcom is KING. People can argue all day about the values of these other extensions, but obviously most companies aren't interested, even the ones from Canada. Names that don't get type-in traffic really aren't that great. If you have the dotcom version, and someone else has the same name in another extension, you really aren't harmed unless the other person sets up a site and tries to confuse the public in some way.

Businesses actually get it. Many domainers don't.
 

Gerry

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Also find it hard to believe he would do all that work and spend so much time in kindness to a company with no connection to him. Really strange to say the least.
I think many people here underestimate the kindness and genuine professionalism portrayed by many members. I do not know Maxwell but from what I have seen he is sincere in his effort and even in his rejection or disagreements he is cordial and professional.

I can say those same words and see those qualities in many members here.

I have never met any members in person but I have spoken with several on the phone. There are many people here that I would be honored to work with and be associated with.
 

grcorp

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Dotcom is KING. This is a great example of that. Sure, there are some people who can convince others that .ca is worth big money, but you just proved the value of dotcom. If you have to really convince someone that they should want a product, then that product is often times inferior.

I'm not buying the charity approach at all, either. The idea that you would spend money backordering names .ca just so some names don't fall into the wrong hands is laughable and not believable, period. I don't care if you have previous examples of turning over names or not, but that is just a bunch of bullshit.

Why not go to some homeless shelter and donate some time and money? Registering .ca names in an attempt to prevent injustice in the world might be the most ridiculous thing I have heard on these forums.

At least .ca is a legitimate extension, unlike .mobi, .co, and a host of others. The worldwide market says dotcom is KING. People can argue all day about the values of these other extensions, but obviously most companies aren't interested, even the ones from Canada. Names that don't get type-in traffic really aren't that great. If you have the dotcom version, and someone else has the same name in another extension, you really aren't harmed unless the other person sets up a site and tries to confuse the public in some way.

Businesses actually get it. Many domainers don't.

In the big picture, .com is definitely king. However, .ca has had an absolutely profound impact in Canada, one that I won't bother trying to explain since you have to live within it to understand how ubiquitous its use is.

I 100% agree with your statement about a product being inferior if you truly have to push it. A good product should sell itself. However, the only reason why I had done this and contacted them is because they could very well have forgotten to renew the domain name.

If you think that genuine honesty is not my motive here, then could you please explain some other possible purpose behind what I'm doing? I explained to them that I'm not trying to make a profit, all I'm looking to get is enough to recoup my costs, for which I have receipts.

I'm completely transparent about my identity in all these circumstances. They have my first and last name, my phone number, my email address, and my skype ID. I hide behind nothing. Which is exactly what a scammer, or somebody with the wrong purposes, would not do, given the fact that once their scheme falls apart, they want to be able to pull off the same charade again. Not what I do.

I do agree that .co, .mobi, etc. aren't worth anyone's time and money. But like I said before, you don't understand .ca's impact. It's used interchangeably with .com here, and I can't think of any other TLD that's like that.
 

jstewart

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For those not from Canada, .ca is critical here. For example, whenever I go to google, I go to google.ca not .com, ebay.ca not .com, amazon.ca not .com, etc. etc.

Any Canadian company needs to absolutely own the .ca if this is where they are selling to Canadians. Many Canadians likely believe .COM is for the US.
 

katherine

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Each market is different. While .ca is in a much better position than .us, there is still competition from .com (ideally you should own both).
The dotcom is king thinking is valid in America, much less elsewhere. Remember the US 'namescape' has peculiarities of its own.
The Canadian scene is molded by creeping US influence, cultural penetration and economic osmosis with the southern neighbor.
But there is a world beyond 'flatland' America.

In Europe many domains are taken in the local extension only while all others including .com are left available to register. It's not that the people don't get it, but dotcom doesn't have the relevance or local reach that the ccTLDs have.
We all know about the popularity of .de or .co.uk but the same could be said about .nl or .ch.
Dotcom isn't dead in Europe, if you're a large corporation with a global focus or doing business internationally it's more or less a must-have. Europeans get it. They do visit the US sites like google microsoft or facebook.etc on a daily basis, that are heavily branded around .com but they are not in America...

I hope nobody is expecting to make a living selling .ca domains. .ca is a good extension but it sucks for pure play domaining. There are other ccTLDs that offer more opportunities. If .ca is used interchangeably with .com, how come .ca domains are so hard to sell and even shunned by local end users as exemplified in this topic. It's also interesting to look at the number of domains per capita in different extensions. For example Australia has a tight registry with a long history of anti-speculation stance, and a population roughly two thirds of Canada, yet they have more (2M) domains registered. But they don't share a border with the US.
 

urlurl

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in Canada, .ca is preferd in some cases over .com. If im selling a product or service to Canadians why would i want internation traffic (.com, net, org, etc). examples: realestate, mortgages, lawyers, beavers :)) etc.

Fot those who don't think a person can do something out of kindness or without profit - obviously you dont know too many Canadians... i would
 

David G

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in Canada, .ca is preferd in some Fot those who don't think a person can do something out of kindness or without profit - obviously you dont know too many Canadians... i would

Agree, Canadians are great people. I am good personal friends with several from Alberta for example and would go to great lengths offering them help with anything. In fact, I recently spent several hundred $ hiring a developer (and doing free hosting on my server) to make a website for the daughter of a Calgary friend (suffering from a rare form of cancer) who is also a great friend of my granddaughter. Did that as a favor without them asking me. What I find baffling is that he did all this work for some company with locations in Canada (sounds like a good size firm). I can see doing a favor (even if not asked for or wanted) for an individual but why do that for some company/corporation? Can you imagine that company helping Maxwell out at no cost and even paying out of pocket costs to help him.
 
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grcorp

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I hope nobody is expecting to make a living selling .ca domains. .ca is a good extension but it sucks for pure play domaining. There are other ccTLDs that offer more opportunities. If .ca is used interchangeably with .com, how come .ca domains are so hard to sell and even shunned by local end users as exemplified in this topic. It's also interesting to look at the number of domains per capita in different extensions. For example Australia has a tight registry with a long history of anti-speculation stance, and a population roughly two thirds of Canada, yet they have more (2M) domains registered. But they don't share a border with the US.

Well, you can't make a living on .ca's in the current market state. But that's where 99% of my domain name investment is going to, out of profound confidence in the TLD.

.ca is only hard to sell because the market has not yet matured. It's my theory that since .ca's landrush was in 2000, rather than about 1994 for .com, there is that ~6 year lag in the market's maturity. Imagine trying to sell domains in about 2004/2005. It was a much different market then in .com than it was today. That state is presently mirrored in .ca, IMO.

Interestingly about Australia, I've owned a few .com's that were active sites in the .com.au TLD, and a prospective domain brokerage client has given me a list of nearly 30,000 names to review, in which there are many similar situations with .com names being active sites in the .com.au TLD.

This is a market on which I have absolutely zero knowledge, however, and therefore could not make an informed comment on it.

---------- Post added at 09:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Agree, Canadians are great people. I am good personal friends with several from Alberta for example and would go to great lengths offering them help with anything. In fact, I recently spent several hundred $ hiring a developer (and doing free hosting on my server) to make a website for the daughter of a Calgary friend (suffering from a rare form of cancer) who is also a great friend of my granddaughter. Did that as a favor without them asking me. What I find baffling is that he did all this work for some company with locations in Canada (sounds like a good size firm). I can see doing a favor (even if not asked for or wanted) for an individual but why do that for some company/corporation? Can you imagine that company helping Maxwell out at no cost and even paying out of pocket costs to help him.

Well, a company doing an unsolicited good deed for an individual is different from the reverse situation. Since the term "company" refers to a group of people, the "company" cannot act on its own. The action must be carried out by an individual.

An example of when a company (or rather, a business, being just an animal hospital) did a good deed for an individual in my life was a few years ago when my family and I were going on a road trip. We boarded our cat in the animal hospital, as we were going to be away for about a week. My mother left her purse there, as we were there a while filling out forms and such. Then my father gets a call on his cell phone from the animal hospital informing us that my mother had left her purse there, which we promptly returned to pick up.

So in that circumstance, it was an individual, while acting on behalf of the company, making the phone call and doing the good deed.

Remember, they are under no obligation to do that. In fact, I'll bet that when that person was trained, there was no specific section on what to do if you find a woman's purse left behind in the reception area.

So, the concept of a company as a company doing an unsolicited good deed for an individual is flawed on a simple account of impossibility.

Speaking from an individual-to-individual standpoint, I do good deeds all the time, just because I'm a nice person.

I just keep in mind that if a circumstance ever came up where I'd need a hand, I'd appreciate having one. So I want to be "that guy" who gives someone else a hand when they need it.
 

David G

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Maxwell, after reading the entire thread I now know why you did this! You said this is 2 posts: "Most people who know me know I deal in controversial domain names.... To show that there are good, honest domainers out there who do recognize goodwill and aren't extortionists....to show that I am, indeed, part of this group of people, as some domains that I own are controversial (but by no means an outright violation of anyones trademark), and should those ever go into a dispute resolution, I want the frequently-used argument of "the registrant has engaged in a pattern of registering trademarked domains" to not apply to me, given the fact that I would go to this effort to defend someone else's trademark"

It is now qute obvious you did this for your own possible future benefit and to help yourself in the event of lawsuits or wipo's aganst your controversial names. You did not do it purely from the goodness of your heart as you managed to get some members in this thread to believe, such as Doc Com for example. You only did it to cover yourself re a potential "pattern of registering trademarks" assertion aganst you. You said that n your own words. Are you willing to admit that now so we can put this thread to rest?
 

grcorp

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Maxwell, after reading the entire thread I now know why you did this! You said this is 2 posts: "Most people who know me know I deal in controversial domain names.... To show that there are good, honest domainers out there who do recognize goodwill and aren't extortionists....to show that I am, indeed, part of this group of people, as some domains that I own are controversial (but by no means an outright violation of anyones trademark), and should those ever go into a dispute resolution, I want the frequently-used argument of "the registrant has engaged in a pattern of registering trademarked domains" to not apply to me, given the fact that I would go to this effort to defend someone else's trademark"

It is now qute obvious you did this for your own possible future benefit and to help yourself in the event of lawsuits or wipo's aganst your controversial names. You did not do it purely from the goodness of your heart as you managed to get some members in this thread to believe, such as Doc Com for example. You only did it to cover yourself re a potential "pattern of registering trademarks" assertion aganst you. You said that n your own words. Are you willing to admit that now so we can put this thread to rest?

Had it not occurred to you that this is merely a fringe benefit?

In any event, this is not the reason for which I am securing TM'ed domains to pass along to their rightful owners, though I can understand why you think that's the case.

Pure goodness aside, it's in the interest of all domainers for us to have a good name. We've all been told at one point or another that we're "cybersquatters", or otherwise unethical. And I want to show these people, as a domainer, that we're not all extortionists who will try to get $100,000 and not a penny less for domain names registered in bad faith.

I will irrevocably admit that I do recognize the fact that I am benefiting from this personally, but that's only because domains I wish to hold as investments are merely controversial in nature. Let's face it, a judge or arbitrator is compellable by any number of things which can work against me. I read WIPO and CIPO cases for fun, and know that too many cases have been lost as a result of domain owners exhibiting a pattern of registering domain names which were trademarks.

Of course, every one of those cases was a registration that was straight-up dumb. The parallels between them and I are that we both own names which are controversial in nature (theirs were the ones disputed in front of panels, whereas mine are yet to be), and we have registered other trademarked domains as parts of our portfolios.

The difference is that I have transferred (or in this case, offered to transfer) the domains to their rightful owner, which shows that I am not holding them for the wrong reasons.

I don't appreciate your remarks that specify that I "got other members to believe" that I'm a genuinely honest person. He can read the same things you can read. I'm not going to edit that post or hide anything. It's all here for anybody to see.

A comparable situation might be as follows;

I find somebody's wallet and return it to them. Two weeks later, a guy matching my description is accused of stealing a man's wallet, and I'm brought in for questioning.

Now, of course, an alibi could get me out of this. Or I could explain x y and z to get out of further investigation perhaps saddling me with a conviction (just like arguing out rightful ownership in front of an arbitration panel). But wouldn't it be rather useful for me to mention that just two weeks earlier, I had returned somebody's wallet, somebody who could vouch for the fact that it was returned intact, without anything missing from it?

Of course my motive for returning the wallet initially was to be a good, honest person. However, had I just left it there (just as if I had left those names in TBR to drop), whose hands would it have ended up in?

Had I disregarded the wallet, and I get called in for questioning anyhow (say the actual perpetrator looked like me), there's no basis on which I could defend myself by using positive character as a reason for not being capable of committing that robbery. I have no story, and I'm left to my wits.

So, if you were in the same situation, of course you would utilize past acts of goodness to show that you were less likely to be capable of being in the wrong, as the accuser in a domain name dispute might allege me to be.

Does this clear things up for you, David?
 

grcorp

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Yes, it does and I am sure you are honest but I still am convinced a big reason you did this was due to the ulterior motive. After all, you said that in your own words!

I don't deny for a second that it was a reason behind it. But I would have done it regardless, since I care about domainers having a good name.

I'm also a realtor... people have frequent misconceptions about realtors' behaviors, and I would gladly go to almost any length to defend the image of realtors everywhere, on account of the fact that I, as a realtor, when communicating with people, am one of the group. The same way that I am one of the group when it comes to domainers.

I like to maintain an ethical image for both who I am and what I represent. We're all after something at the end of the day. And we have a choice to attain it ethically or unethically. I choose the ethical path, and I make a point of it.
 

grcorp

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Thank you for the admitting it.

Note that I said *a* reason, and not *the* reason.

Last time I checked there's nothing wrong with establishing positive character to show that you're a good person doing the right things.
 

David G

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I'm not buying the charity approach at all, either. The idea that you would spend money backordering names .ca just so some names don't fall into the wrong hands is laughable and not believable, period. I don't care if you have previous examples of turning over names or not, but that is just a bunch of bullshit. Why not go to some homeless shelter and donate some time and money? Registering .ca names in an attempt to prevent injustice in the world might be the most ridiculous thing I have heard on these forums.

Exactly! The ulterior motive was obviously a significant reason.
 

katherine

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.ca is only hard to sell because the market has not yet matured. It's my theory that since .ca's landrush was in 2000, rather than about 1994 for .com, there is that ~6 year lag in the market's maturity. Imagine trying to sell domains in about 2004/2005. It was a much different market then in .com than it was today. That state is presently mirrored in .ca, IMO.
And when do you think the market will mature ? Perhaps investing in .ca actually is more of a gamble on the future. There could be some truth in what you're saying. .us was released as late as in 2002 and didn't quite take off. If you look at year-to-date figures it's even been stagnating. It doesn't bear the features of a healthy TLD. In the case of Canada, I think competition from .com will remain for the reasons explained above.
It is true that some ccTLDs like .de or .co.uk were already established by the end of the nineties but I don't think timing explains everything.
Note that the number of .ca registrations has been increasing at a brisk pace, but all those new registrations do not equate with increased activity in the aftermarket. My guess is Canadians just balk at paying good money for good domains. It could be a mentality thing.
 

grcorp

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And when do you think the market will mature ? Perhaps investing in .ca actually is more of a gamble on the future. There could be some truth in what you're saying. .us was released as late as in 2002 and didn't quite take off. If you look at year-to-date figures it's even been stagnating. It doesn't bear the features of a healthy TLD. In the case of Canada, I think competition from .com will remain for the reasons explained above.
It is true that some ccTLDs like .de or .co.uk were already established by the end of the nineties but I don't think timing explains everything.
Note that the number of .ca registrations has been increasing at a brisk pace, but all those new registrations do not equate with increased activity in the aftermarket. My guess is Canadians just balk at paying good money for good domains. It could be a mentality thing.

Well, only time will tell.

No investment is truly certain. Investments in .com were made on speculation. If I wanted certainty, I'd put money into government bonds. But I want to earn a little more than 1%, so I'm willing to take a risk or two.
 
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