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The domain name industry is so full of it... Really!

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mike031

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Everybody by now I think already is well aware of the fact that the domain industry is so full of opportunities. It has been really good to many people who got involved early on around the year 2000 and into 2001 as the dot com bubble burst and have become instant millionaires thanks to investing in domain names... Well, not really "instantly" like the next day but once they picked up a certain amount of domains it was clear that there would be a lot of money and big payouts down the road. The seeds were planted. They knew it... Some people have become multi-multi millionaires within a few years of being involved in the domain game within a relatively short wait period and few have even accumulated wealth well into hundreds of millions of dollars in the golden days chasing drops and buying out smaller players/porfolios. That is just great! Amazing visions and accomplishments.

The domain industry is so full of it... Big money... Big potential!!! Big everything. That is what you hear, right. But is it really? Well, that is what you hear everywhere you go it seems. Unfortunately, it's also full of some not so pleasant stuff too, such as lies, cheats, deceit and double standards. What are the lies you ask? It is all this talk by many of the hot shots of the industry for many years now about how domain name type in traffic being so valuable and the best type of traffic on the web and that it is so undervalued by the payouts within PPC. Is it really the best of the best?? Where exactly is the data to backup any of this claims --- can this be proved by anybody? Look, any legitimate traffic is good traffic! Good traffic is traffic that converts to signups and sales eventually. Good traffic is targeted traffic... Some generic domain traffic is anything but targeted traffic. You know it's the truth!

Domain holders have been playing up the press for years trying to push a certain agenda that domains have all this potential to convert visitors to clients or sales... Sure they do. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Once again, I say, any legitimate type of traffic does convert. Even from third tier PPC engines. If it didn't, they wouldn't be in business. But really, type in traffic is nothing special... Nothing ground breaking or anything to get excited about. It has been around forever since the internet was founded and it is still just traffic. It is not an exclusive stream of traffic or an unfiltered source of traffic. It's just traffic. It's mostly just people typing in a domain name looking for a certain website containing information or resources that are ready, willing and able to click on a link on your website and go from there. That is all... What is the big deal?

Some domains have certain value to them beyond the $7 or $8 reg fee because they generate free and organic traffic consistently and because they are short and memorable internet addresses perfect to setup a business on. Of course having a cool or memorable and relevant domain name is great as everything is about image this days and the domain name is certainly one of the most important variables. The generic keyword domains are desired by many of course... So they are in high demand which bumps up the value of some domains according to whatever somebody is willing to pay for it. What is the face value?? Is there any??? How do you go about determining an accurate valuation for a domain? It is really not so simple. Some people have come up with all this scientific ways and formulas to compare this and that and therefore my domain is equal so on and so on... Right!! They are just numbers... Random numbers.... Wishful numbers.

Yes, keyword domain names are strongly favored by the search engines... And by users who identify them and relate to them as there is a certain trust factor involved. Domain names have a lot of potential going for most of them but not even 90% if not more of all domains will ever be sold, well, maybe a small fraction of them will be at $10 - $100 but all of the rest and the majority never will be! Not at the ridiculous prices that some of the largest dot com domain holders have priced them at. Those guys have been playing up the press for years trying to make it look like all generic keyword domain names are the cream of the crop. Lies, I tell you... They are just domain names. The demand isn't there either. They are just pricing them high because they actually do not want to sell them. They want to hold on to them. They play hard to get. Just be careful guys, because that game doesn't work out so well at the end.. I am not suggesting that the industry is going to crash or anywhere near the "end" but the industry has changed. It is not what it used to be. People want the facts and transparency... The "it's got potential" argument is way way old.

Most domain investors will see a few reported high $xx,xxx sales or one mid $xxx,xxx sale per month and actually believe the hype that most generic domains are worth a ton of money! This keeps peoples hopes up that there may actually be a big pay day for them just because their domain is a generic. This gets people re-energized... It keeps the market going. Hahahaha.. So just because a few dozen domains sold per month or lets say even a hundred or two hundred... Heck, lets say one thousand... It means the industry is as strong and big as it is perceived to be? What about all the hundreds of thousands of domains that didn't sell?? What about all the tens of millions of domains that will never ever sell?? What about them?? Oh, right, you don't hear about the failures... Light only shines where there is success. What about all those generics that are for sale for 5, 6, 7 or 10+ years now and are still unsold? Yea... That is how it is. There isn't much talk about those. Don't forget about those, guys... You are welcome for reminder :)

It would be cool to publish a monthly report of all of the domains that go unsold... That wouldn't look so good eh?... Hmm... I wonder if I was to verify all of the reported sales or deals announced by some of the largest domain owners and brokerages evert week... DomainTools whois history is such a neat little feature... Hmmm.. OK, trust me on this, a lot of the sales that you see reported here and there are bogus but they manage to fly under the radar. I have noticed more than a few "screw ups" and "mistakes" as has been admitted up front by some of the larger players in the game here and there as well as brokers when the issue is pointed out. Deals that never happened. Deals that were actually done for much less behind the scenes. Lots of cheat and deceit, I tell you...

As for the double standards... Well... What can I tell you about this subject or problem. There are a lot of them. Some of the biggest trademark offenders are companies that are perceived to be the sweethearts and darlings of the industry. People are just scared to come out and confront them or talk about the issues at hand. Also many of the individuals who ***** and moan about others who own trademark domains, trying to make it look like they are the "good guys" in the public eye when in fact most of them themselves own typos and clear violation trademark domains. They themselves would snap up a typo domain name that has the potential to earn money if it was available on the cheap and not for 5x years revenue as most sellers would like to have, or if they were to discover that it was available for a $7 registration fee... They would grab it and by the thousands!! The Hypocrisy... Doesn't surprise me but it is funny. Lets keep it real guys... Lets try to be sincere for a change. Say it how it is. No more hiding. No more sugarcoating.

Stakes are high... Time to come out and do what's right but who am I to tell other people how to run their business? No no.. You don't have to listen to me, all I ask is that you take the information that is available to you and try to understand it in order to run your business better or more efficiently... You see, all of the problems I write about affect us all. You, me, Google, Parking companies, Registrars, etc. We are all in this business together. If you don't think it somehow effects you directly --- you need to snap out of the all-is-well domain spell that whoever put on you! The industry is not that big... It is a very small and immature and will never ever be accepted by the mainstream... The industry is controlled by only a few dozen companies and maybe a few hundred professionals. There are thousands of newbies that come and go every month but only a few hundred serious investors and true pioneers who have the most to gain but also the most to lose.

Oh so you think just because the same few hundred domainers show up at a few conferences at a hotel every few month's each and every year with their family it makes the industry somehow grow or look more legit? Nope... Look, the conferences have their place, it's nice to have, they are good to do business and meet your peers as well as generate some media buzz a few times per year which is good for certain peoples egos and to raise your profile...and no I don't have anything against the conferences or meets. I am all for them but I tell it how it is. I should note that I never attended any of the conferences because I already know everything I need to know about the domain game and so on and "domaining" doesn't even account for 1% of my income or business in the past few years. I was offered free passes to a bunch of the conferences more than once and I kindly declined. For the industry to continue to grow in this "tough" times and down times...what does it have to do in order to move in the right direction?? Tough question... Well, the industry has to clean up the TM infringement problems that exist as well as become more transparent... Those are the two obvious hot topics and most important issues that keep getting buried.

Do I love the domain industry? You damn right. It is a a pretty amazing industry... Do I have a lot of faith and confidence in the industry?? Hmm... I'm not really sure. Is there really any major players leading a reform or trying to get to the next step? There has been attempts, but all failed, quiet miserably at that. Is there any potential or brighter days ahead if we let things just transpire on their own?? Hmm.... Not looking so good. Don't get me wrong... Some parts of the domain industry are still hot and some really not. There is so many people holding onto thousands of generic domains when in fact only 5% of that portfolio is generating revenue, and the rest of the domains are just worthless domains.. So what if they are generics?? You can't sell them. You can't make anything with them with parking... What good are they? People renew this type of domains for years I have noticed... What is the point?? Sheesh.

The domain industry can still continue to grow but people have to realize that not all traffic is equal. Not all domains are equal either. Each and every domain is unique and should be judged individually. Greed has to be taken out of the equation and people have to come to their senses. It's 2009... Outlook isn't so good for the immediate future. You can deny it all day and as much as you want but that is how I see it. Less parking revenues.. Less sales... Lots of critical and unresolved issues... Not enough interest in the domain industry from mainstream as has been promised or dreamed up by certain people. Come on...It is all there. People need to wake up and do something about it before it is too late. The industry is a pretty fragile industry... Always have and always will be. If you don't understand why it's so risky this days and why the future is so dark like never before... Well, I leave you with two words: reality check.
 

lordbyroniv

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:fish2:
 
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BobDiGiTaL

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I already know everything I need to know about the domain game and so on and "domaining" doesn't even account for 1% of my income or business in the past few years.
if you knew everything, about the domain game, your % of domain income would be greater.
 

cleverlyslick

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i don't know about you mike,but i just started in this business and it's doing good for me :cool:
 

Theo

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Mike, that's a great article. You convinced me to let all of my domains expire and drop.














In 2089 :D
 

raoul

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i don't know about you mike,but i just started in this business and it's doing good for me :cool:

Looking at the 4$ domains you NOT sold recently it seems everyone has a different standard for "doing good" Maybee you where previously employed in detroit turning screws inside a chassi, than yes maybee your "doing good"
 

cleverlyslick

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Looking at the 4$ domains you NOT sold recently it seems everyone has a different standard for "doing good" Maybee you where previously employed in detroit turning screws inside a chassi, than yes maybee your "doing good"

i'll dust that comment off my shoulders raoul.just know that i've sold names for more than $4 a pop and the $$$ i made off it can hold me down to keep going at this business without "turning screws inside a chassi in detroit"(i'm from new york by the way).NONE of the big $$$ names i sold were at sedo so you won't find them at "dnjournal".just hard work and grinding and being a good salesman got me those deals.

IMO i've come to realize that alot of domainers (maybe you)just want to buy names and wait to get somebody to inquire about the domain.Not me.I don't wait for anybody.i keep moving because $$$ needs to be made.So what if i'm selling a few names for $4-5 usd (dogbedsales.com is on $1auction by the way if you're interested).i'm getting rid of names that i had no luck with and hopefully somebody else will do better with,and on top of that i'm STILL learning this game.so don't be a HATER raoul.

LIKE I SAID I JUST STARTED IN THIS BUSINESS AND SO FAR I'M DOING PRETTY GOOD!!!

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
 

raoul

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i'll dust that comment off my shoulders raoul.just know that i've sold names for more than $4 a pop and the $$$ i made off it can hold me down to keep going at this business without "turning screws inside a chassi in detroit"(i'm from new york by the way).NONE of the big $$$ names i sold were at sedo so you won't find them at "dnjournal".just hard work and grinding and being a good salesman got me those deals.

IMO i've come to realize that alot of domainers (maybe you)just want to buy names and wait to get somebody to inquire about the domain.Not me.I don't wait for anybody.i keep moving because $$$ needs to be made.So what if i'm selling a few names for $4-5 usd (dogbedsales.com is on $1auction by the way if you're interested).i'm getting rid of names that i had no luck with and hopefully somebody else will do better with,and on top of that i'm STILL learning this game.so don't be a HATER raoul.

LIKE I SAID I JUST STARTED IN THIS BUSINESS AND SO FAR I'M DOING PRETTY GOOD!!!

:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Sportive guy, I like it. There was no hate in my post to you, but mike is making a point here. Most domainers sitting on their domains, while the endusers of the internet use google,

why do you THINK parking revenue is rolling back? Because the traffic is high quality? or because its crap traffic.

Comapanies that advertise these days use 25k + analytics software to check if their clicks converting to sales, do you think they bother advertising on xxxx.com if nothing converts, in the end they not want clicks, they want sales.
 

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This article is long and confusing. I would like to ask a question.

Q: What is the intent or purpose of this thread?

1. to discourage
2. to encourage
3. to inform
4. to beat up the indsutry

It's as if with one breath you speak good and then the next it's all bad with gloom and doom. I think all industries face the same trials this one does, the same inside turmoil, everything is the same. From the biggest industries in the world to the smallest corporations. The key ingredient in all of these is people. People power it all and the power to dream, the power to encourage, the power to inspire is too within your grasp. Is possible we could all be millionaires if we cooperated better? I think so, I really believe it but people prevent it in many ways. I think, even on a small scale it's a great business to be a part of.
 

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Raoul, there's no BS coming from a guy who's from the Big Apple. They're some of the most straightforward people in the world.

I sold lots of domains for "peanuts" during my early domaining years and lost quite a chunk of money in the process of learning from my mistakes. The beauty of the domain industry is the camaraderie among its members. People help people get out of dire straits by not repeating documented mistakes. The most important factor, in my opinion, is faith in one's own instinct. Each step of the way, up.
 

raoul

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Raoul, there's no BS coming from a guy who's from the Big Apple. They're some of the most straightforward people in the world.

I sold lots of domains for "peanuts" during my early domaining years and lost quite a chunk of money in the process of learning from my mistakes. The beauty of the domain industry is the camaraderie among its members. People help people get out of dire straits by not repeating documented mistakes. The most important factor, in my opinion, is faith in one's own instinct. Each step of the way, up.


Like in any business, you own "the goods" so you decide, if you can get a buyer crazy enough, you will sell.

Mike posted some article, and immidiatly guys storm in to say its going so great, while IMO this is not the point of the article.
 

ilovedomains

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Domain holders have been playing up the press for years trying to push a certain agenda that domains have all this potential to convert visitors to clients or sales... Sure they do. It doesn't take a genius to figure this out. Once again, I say, any legitimate type of traffic does convert. Even from third tier PPC engines. If it didn't, they wouldn't be in business. But really, type in traffic is nothing special... Nothing ground breaking or anything to get excited about. It has been around forever since the internet was founded and it is still just traffic. It is not an exclusive stream of traffic or an unfiltered source of traffic. It's just traffic. It's mostly just people typing in a domain name looking for a certain website containing information or resources that are ready, willing and able to click on a link on your website and go from there. That is all... What is the big deal?

Before 2000 we had to use pay per signup sponsors. Thats where you find out what traffic is really worth.

Targeted typein and search engine traffic converted great. Link traffic in general wasnt even half as good. Dropped traffic names usually didnt convert at all, and we didnt even want them for free.
 

mike031

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this issues i bring up hit close to home

a lot of domainers will take it very personal and to heart

i said what needs to be said in the article

u can digest it, take little bits and pieces here and there and hopefully apply it to ur own business and hopefully get to the next level if u want to...

u see, the most silly and right in ur face issues are often over looked... issues that u never even think about really matter... well, they do matter, quiet a bit

easy to ignore.... :)

im sorry that the picture i painted and views are kinda ugly, but it is reality

2009 is shaping up to be a very different year and if u look at all of the signals... its all right there

my 2c worth
 

acronym007

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this issues i bring up hit close to home

a lot of domainers will take it very personal and to heart

i said what needs to be said in the article

u can digest it, take little bits and pieces here and there and hopefully apply it to ur own business and hopefully get to the next level if u want to...

u see, the most silly and right in ur face issues are often over looked... issues that u never even think about really matter... well, they do matter, quiet a bit

easy to ignore.... :)

im sorry that the picture i painted and views are kinda ugly, but it is reality

2009 is shaping up to be a very different year and if u look at all of the signals... its all right there

my 2c worth

What about cycles?

Is it possible it's just a cycle, in for awhile and gone in x number of months/years?

2009 could be a bad year. I don't think anyone should be defensive but I think some people take negativity personal if it's truthful so it's a double edge sword.
 

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Like in any business, you own "the goods" so you decide, if you can get a buyer crazy enough, you will sell.

Mike posted some article, and immidiatly guys storm in to say its going so great, while IMO this is not the point of the article.

that is the point of the article.he's saying that the industry is not what everybody thinks it is.and we as domainers should know that.

1)the really good premium .com's are taken and
2)if you want any of these premiums you gotta cough up some serious cash.

the way i see it,the purpose of the internet for MAJORITY of businesses is to PROMOTE their business (not just major business,but small business too).
do you think a small candy store would want to buy "candy.com" for whatever price their selling it.that's outrageous.but they deserve a chance to promote their business online.why not acquire a name that's both affordable for you (the domainer) and for the small business or even major business at that and you can still turn a decent profit.why are we buying names for $1k and trying to sell them for $30k? c'mon people it's you guys that need the reality check.if i can make that much money on a domain that's awesome.but i'm not looking for that much.

IF I MAKE 100% PROFIT FOR ANY DOMAIN I SELL I'M HAPPY AND THANKFUL FOR IT! EVEN IF I PURCHASE A NAME FOR $10 AND SELL IT FOR $20.

that's my 2 cents.
 

mike031

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What about cycles?

Is it possible it's just a cycle, in for awhile and gone in x number of months/years?

2009 could be a bad year. I don't think anyone should be defensive but I think some people take negativity personal if it's truthful so it's a double edge sword.

for the parking issue;

we are way beyond the up and down cycle argument or theories

u see, the next monetization model won't have anything to do with pay per click... ppc has ran its course

it will be strictly pay-for-performance and a lot of the traffic domain names currently part of domain channel will be gone

domains that should of never been part of it in the first place

clear violation typos of famous sites, companies / brands... lots of fraudulent traffic / untargeted expired link traffic and so on

it is some of the best traffic that keeps the domain traffic going and pumping all of the money into the industry...

illegal money made from domains that should of never been made in the first place financed and paid for all of the ridiculous amounts of money paid for non-problematic generics of smart or shall i say very clever domain investors who diversified


as for the domain values and end users...

there will alwys be demand, but not as big of a demand as we all wish to be

maybe in 5 or 10 yrs things may look different but in the next few yrs, i just dont see things getting any better than what they were in 2006, 2007

to better summarize...

it is not a "healthy" market anymore if u want to compare it to the good ol prosperous days full of opportunities


it has started to rot a long time ago just faster as of late and will continue to deteriorate....
 
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nameadvertising.com

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Mike,
Some of your arguments are noteworthy. Some, downright scary.

Are you sizing them up based on your experience, portfolio or business cycle? Those who know how to make money from domains will always make money. The domain industry (if you can even call it an industry) has its share of fakers, pumpers and dumpers and players to the press who take every opportunity to bloat the value of their portfolio.

But, please do not be discouraging of the little guy who got started today. The playing field may not be level anymore, but the game can still be played successfully at ones own terms no matter what the reality is projected to be.

Make your own reality. I did. And seriously, I care less what the so called experts and so called big time domainers have to say. I care less what the economy is like.

Make your own economy. It can be done.

Those who have used the press have done little than to forge ahead their own interests. Flashing big name sales and organizing shows does little for the industry to attain legitimacy for every one involved.

All the negatives we see in domaining is a process which will filter itself out when the market gets more organized. Until then, only the few make the rules and for the most part a good majority of suckers, follow them.
 

Poker

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Picking up names during the first big Internet pullback was one of the best moves I ever made (even though I had little to spend)...I would suggest everyone do the same if we get another...
 

mike031

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Mike,
Some of your arguments are noteworthy. Some, downright scary.

Are you sizing them up based on your experience, portfolio or business cycle? Those who know how to make money from domains will always make money. The domain industry (if you can even call it an industry) has its share of fakers, pumpers and dumpers and players to the press who take every opportunity to bloat the value of their portfolio.

But, please do not be discouraging of the little guy who got started today. The playing field may not be level anymore, but the game can still be played successfully at ones own terms no matter what the reality is projected to be.

Make your own reality. I did. And seriously, I care less what the so called experts and so called big time domainers have to say. I care less what the economy is like.

Make your own economy. It can be done.

Those who have used the press have done little than to forge ahead their own interests. Flashing big name sales and organizing shows does little for the industry to attain legitimacy for every one involved.

All the negatives we see in domaining is a process which will filter itself out when the market gets more organized. Until then, only the few make the rules and for the most part a good majority of suckers, follow them.

livingin ur own little bubble can be quiet scary... i would advise against this

the whole industry is very small and each and every lil thing is inter-connected and codepedant in one or more ways

if u look at the different sectors, which there really arent too many off, its mostly aftermarket (sales) and monetization (parking) and see how really unstable they are, and if one of them takes a hit..... so will the rest

there will be litigation for all the tm's... it is inevitable, just one random morning, as u wake up and go about ur normal routines, what will be different is that there will be lots of ppl and companies slapped with lots of lawsuits and rightfully so, with many domains getting disabled and revenue streams shut down once and for all

also, google has now at least twice tried to pull the plug on the domain channel... especially for the "adult" sector of parking

they changed their mind, in the last minute for some reason because i guess they are jsut as greedy and want the $$$ at the end of the day... parking companies had already made arrangements to monetize that traffic with 2nd and 3rd tier ppc, companies such as Sedo stayed on top of this and did everything they could... if u dont remember, inquire with em and u can get some more info

but google is the where the money is... so when it happens, once the feed is gone all of the traffic will be monetized via yahoo...advertising budgets will get depleted there quick and pay per click wont be as high as was at google... yahoo will discount all of this traffic as a result further, probly 2 to 3 times less to keep their advertisers happy but in order to still try keep the domainers business... yahoo wont ever shut down the domain channel, it is too important for them...

for google, it is a liability and they do not need it... it does more harm than good... it is where all of the ppc fraud occurs.
 
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