The war is about to start

[TopNames.com]

It's not because you disagree...

I am proud that I am an American. I will not stand by and let people badmouth the US...post real facts and valid points...not BS...it's not childish to defend your country. I take this thread VERY PERSONAL and I have no problems not doing business with anti-amercians...no problems at all...in fact, I'll sleep better.

Like a said a dozen times before...I even disagree with this war...but don't tell me it's about religion and expect me to just sit back...

 

[StockDoctor]

Originally posted by beatz
Had to come back once.

See, *any* financial aid the US has ever given to other countries was seen as an INVESTMENT.
The US has never given money away just out of humanity reasons only.
And speaking of using financial aid to help americans:
What about helping americans with the billion dollars this war will cost instead of spending it for weapons?

Ok, i'm off now for real

You're just plain wrong on the financial aid thing Beatz. The US is the biggest provider of aid in the world, as it should be, being the richest. I think anyone on this board would argue with your "humanity reason" statement. It comes across as "I hate the US" and that's all. No problem with that, but just get some nerve and say it instead of stating some bull opinion. While I lived in England, they called the US the "bread basket of the world". Remember who came to the aid of Russia when they needed the grain to feed their people? I remember watching the ships first hand sail out of Duluth MN loaded for Russia. This after the cold war and their threats "We will bury you." I think you're a little young to remember, but I can tell you, I've witnessed the US forgiveness and generosity over and over and over again.

To help you on your last point, the last figure I saw was about $80 billion.

 

[beatz]

Originally posted by TopNames.com


See, Beatz is an asshole...spewing complete lies about the US. He just makes up facts...just like the anthrax thing from yesterday.

Topnames,

lemme recall - you accused me of hatred, right?
When i was never insulting you, right?

Now, what do you call naming me an "asshole"?

See, i know it's hard for you to accept this time the whole world is against america.
Still, what i'm saying are no lies in any way.
Even the financial aids to victims of earthquakes and so on are motivated by US interests; it's just not so obvious by first look - especially for people that only watch CNN if at all.

Anyway, you starting calling me names and accusing me telling lies shows how much "facts" you really have.

 

[system0]

how am i dissing the usa and im not anti-american

im going to america in a few months - my brothers going to america next wednesday for 2 years and im going to visit him

im from the uk and i disagree with what blair and bush are doing - does that make me anti british as well?

i disgaree with the fact that war was always on the agenda regardless of what happened with the un - as proved by the fact our troops have been there for months

one of my best friend is over there right now - as a marine - and i hope to god he doesnt die because of all this

all blair and bush go on about is breaking un resolutions - but both usa and the uk break countless uk resolutions regarding nuclear weapons - there are a few bases in scotland which have nuclear weapons and we're not supposed to have them

i respect someone for being patriotic - i am myself- but i will never agree 100% with the leader of my country just because hes the leader of my country

thats why god gave us all brains - to decide for ourselves#

blair for one will be finished as a politician that much is clear - his closest cabinet ministers are resigning in high numbers

 

[izopod]

Originally posted by beatz

The taliban suppressed their own country, the whole poulation.
While Saddam suppresses "only" his enemies, or the people he thinks are his enemies.
One reason his people love him is took care that everybody got to school plus made sure women are allowed to have their own jobs and go to work.
Not to say Saddam isn't a dangerous dictator - just trying to show the difference.

Beatz, couple of things:

1) The taliban leadership came from OUTSIDE Afghanistan to take over the people and land. So you are wrong when you say they suppressed "their" own country.

2) Saddam and his family brutally murder anyone who simply disagrees with them. Saddam's sons make Saddam look like the late Mr. Rogers.


MY ASSESSMENT: A lot of comments for reasons why we shouldn't go to war have bordered on stupid to very far fetched. It seems as though the opposition finds themselves trying to find "any" reason not to go to war. When this happens, there is usually a reason for it. It's because it's not about Iraq, or even war, it's about being "against" those who support the war... Namely the US and it's president.

If this is the case, and I think it is, they will be left holding a lot of baggage once we prevail, find the weapons they've been keeping from inspectors, and when the Iraqi people are celebrating in the streets.

 

[TopNames.com]

yes I did call you an asshole...because you hate Americans and spread lies.

Your *facts* about America inventing Anthrax and that you left out France also sold Iraq anthrax proves my point about your facts.

 

[system0]

america is the largest provider of aid in the world value wise but percentage wise of gnp its not the highest

i am certainly not anti american and i think its bad that anyone who disagrees with going to war should be accused of being racist

 

[octobus]

Originally posted by Ed30
Don't you people get it?? It's NOT about oil.

C'mon!

Seriously, nobody can be so childish.

The most oil-dependant nation after the country with second largest black gold reserves.

The only published reconstruction plan involves getting oil production back quickly as possible. Was the contract granted to Dick Cheney's former employee? An Oil company aswell?

Why in the earth does US maintain military presence in middle of desert?

Sure there's no link . America is truely concerned of Arabs, his favourite people. Quarter of million troops sent for humanitarian cause.


"OH, BUT THEY HAVE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!"

They would not have that shit in first place without US/UK/France support in early 1980s. Even, though Iraq qould pose them, the problem is very much exaggerated. UN inspections have proven worthwile unlike you try to insist. Their Nuclear Program has been dismantled and so has their chemical/biological agents. Few ancient artillery shells with mustard gas DOES not threat world peace.

"But they've used against them own people"

Iraq is an artificial nation created by UK in aftermath of WW2). It's not based upon mutual co-operation between its three habitants ( Kurds , Sunni and Shia muslims) but rather on fierce dictatorship. One should remember that we had no problem supporting the same regime 15 years ago. The evidence used to back up Saddam's capability to use his chemical weapons, is the attack on a small Kurdish village. Neverthless, US blamed Iran for this terrible atrocity. They didn't use it on their own people. Iraq as nation should not even exist.



Terrorists

US did not have any trouble with doing busines with Taliban. The plan to build an oil-line across Afganistan was on agenda until WTC.

 

[Ed30]

Originally posted by fonzerelli_79

blair for one will be finished as a politician that much is clear - his closest cabinet ministers are resigning in high numbers

I don't call 1 a high number Fonz.

 

[TopNames.com]

:upset:

I don't want the war either!

Just argue true and valid points...don't make shit up and say it's not lies...that's what I have the problem with!

 

[system0]

Originally posted by Ed30


I don't call 1 a high number Fonz.

fair point - there are already dozens threatening to quit though and the pm does not have much support public or politically wise in the uk

top - whats been made up?

 

[beatz]

One hint:

One major advantage for the US to have helped Russia is that now

- Russia is now somewhat democratic
- Russia is now somewhat depending on doing business with US
- Russia now somewhat doesn't have the military power it once had ( part of becoming a democracy)
- Russia is not the big enemy anymore the US has to fear

Which results in the US being the only military Superpower that's left.

Very simple strategy:
Help them
Make them economically dependent
Make them owe you something

I know that's the very short version of the sheme, nevertheless it's true.

And to those that call me anti-american, once again:

I'm not.
I'm anti-Bush. A 100%

Would i be anti-american, i doubt i would speak english as good as i do, i doubt i would play american popmusic as a musician and so on.
Just because i don't agree with the US govt policy doesn't mean i'm anti-american.
You would never hear something like "**** the french/americans/whatever" or "you asshole" coming from my mouth just because someone disagrees with me.
Sorry, for me the world ain't that simple or as black/white as many of you seem to want it to be.
-

 

[TopNames.com]

Beatz, you just made it black and white by saying ALL aid is motiviated by a hidden agenda...not giving the US any credit for help we give...even beofre Bush was President...meaning your statements are more than anti-bush...they are anti-us.

I called you an asshole because you make up facts...

 

[izopod]

Originally posted by izopod

It seems as though the opposition finds themselves trying to find "any" reason not to go to war. When this happens, there is usually a reason for it. It's because it's not about Iraq, or even war, it's about being "against" those who support the war... Namely the US and it's president.

Did I not call it:

Originally posted by beatz-himself-u
I'm not.
I'm anti-Bush. A 100%

 

[system0]

regardless of members viewpoints here i think that this debate should not be misinterperted as some sort of argument with certain members

its a discussion - everyone is welcome to their views

 

[Ed30]

Originally posted by octobus
QUOTE]Originally posted by Ed30
Don't you people get it?? It's NOT about oil.

C'mon!

Seriously, nobody can be so childish.

[/QUOTE]

Iraqi oil will certainly put the country back on it's feet again and the free flowing of it will undoubtedly help the world economy. This is one of the consequences of victory, it is not the reason for war - there is a difference.

 

[TopNames.com]

Originally posted by fonzerelli_79
regardless of members viewpoints here i think that this debate should not be misinterperted as some sort of argument with certain members

its a discussion - everyone is welcome to their views

When someone makes up facts or spews anti-american dribble, it is personal.

I don't mind another viewpoint and I like to debate, but when somone attacks my country and says the US does nothing good...I take it very personal.

People have such short memories.

I'm done posting in here....I know who my enemies are....it's been made very clear.

 

[Ciqala]

Seriously i'll be glad when its all over and the brits can get back to bashing the irish and the U.S. can resume their squabbles with the canadians.

why cant all differences be settled with a drunken argument in a bar... the world would be a much nicer place.

 

[system0]

Originally posted by TopNames.com


When someone makes up facts or spews anti-american dribble, it is personal.

I don't mind another viewpoint and I like to debate, but when somone attacks my country and says the US does nothing good...I take it very personal.

People have such short memories.

well im supposed to be on your ignore list so what anti american comment have i said - america are our closest allies and always have been

just because i dont agree with 100,000s of innocent civillians being murdered i am an anti american - i dont think your anti british for disagreeing with me

 

[beatz]

Geez...that's what i call misquting and a black/white point of view.

I did NOT say the US didn't do anything good in the past.
All i said is that everything the US is doing is because it's in the US interest.
You called it a "hidden agenda", not me.
Sorry, but that's how politics are - not that simple, difficult to follow and indeed most of the important stuff happens *not* publically.
And stop accusing me of telling lies - where did i make up something or tell a lie?
The fact i didn't mention the french selling Anthrax to Saddam is cuz i wasn't aware of that fact;
and don't get at me for not knowing that fact - apparently there's a lot more that i know about your country's way of politics than you know about my country's way.
Plus even if the french have sold Anthrax to Saddam - does it make the US doing the same thing any better?!
No country should sell Anthrax or alike to any country AT ALL.
That's my point.
So if the french have, it's as much as bad as the US doing it.
But it doesn't change anything.