For Sale Verisign to auction domin names: WLS to be approved

[David G]

Originally posted by safesys On what basis do you assume the big players won't participate? They are the very people WITH the capital needed to play on a grand scale. It still amazes me that people think the WLS will level anything.

I said they MAY NOT participate much as they do now due to the huge cost of each WLS name, whereas they can now do it basically free.

They likely will still go after some names, but probably only the top-tier ones, perhaps leaving mid caps and others to some of us. In other words, I predict they will become much more selective.

 

[bigdave]

Originally posted by dmorel
#1 - A system that is first come, first serve is fair.

<soapbox>

A "fair" system is in the eyes of the beholder, just like a "fair" tax system depends on your perspective as a taxpayer. Some on this board would argue the current system is fair as those who really work at it can have a decent chance of getting names they want. I see some merit to those arguments.

"Fairness" aside, here's what I see happening.

The big boys and those who know how to directly work the system will get busy when WLS is approved. At WLS startup time, these players will flood the WLS registry with subscription requests. The other players will be left with table scraps, pretty much like it is today. The only difference is that since the cost of playing will be somewhat higher (the final wholesale cost for a WLS sub vs. the current 6 bucks to reg a name), there may be a somewhat larger selection of table scraps.

Once the WLS is up and running, the big players will be continuously looking ahead for desirable names and their expiration dates. There will be a tradeoff, and maybe some of the smaller fry will get subscriptions on good names that are not due to expire for several years as the big players may not want to commit to several years' worth of WLS subscription money for a name that may or may not drop. Who knows - we will find that out in real time as the great experiment gets underway.

Folks who want to play the domain name game for money, can get names if they do the work and make the investment. That seems clear from the posts by experienced folks here. I am not looking to buy names for financial profit - I follow these threads because I find them immensely interesting, and occasionally try to grab a scuba diving related name that I like. My intent is to eventually stand up some sites for them.

escubadiver.com dropped a while back, and the Hong Kong bunch beat out expirefish for it. Was that fair - depends on your perspective. Could I have gotten it if WLS had been in place? (Is Batman a transvestite? Who knows?) (with apologies to the hilarious movie S.O.B.)

WLS supporters all espouse the belief that WLS will be fairer and will level the playing field. My response is that "fairness" cannot really be measured, and that it is unlikely that the playing field will be levelled in the manner that the supporters hope for. WLS is intended to put money into VeriSnap's pockets, and WLS supporters are naive (in my opinion) to believe that it will significantly benefit the small players.

</soapbox>

BD

 

[bigdave]

Originally posted by safesys
On what basis do you assume the big players won't participate?

They are the very people WITH the capital needed to play on a grand scale.

It still amazes me that people think the WLS will level anything.

The WLS will increase the costs of the bigger players, but that doesn't mean they will walk away and start flipping burgers.

Dang, there were 3 replies while I was editing my lengthy one.

As always, safesys hits the nail on the head...

BD

 

[David G]

Even if it only levels the playing field a little but costs buydomains and ultsearch lots of extra money in the process, that's fine with me.

BD already has more than 100,000 good names. They do not any more. I would rather put the money in NetSol's pocket, as long as it costs BD & US lots of money in the process.

I am sick and tired of losing almost every name to these two name hoarders Why do so many here seem to favor them and are so non-critical of these 2 outfits (who I personally despise big time).

 

[bigdave]

Originally posted by RealNames
Even if it only levels the playing field a little but costs buydomains and ultsearch lots of extra money in the process, that's fine with me.

BD already has more than 100,000 good names. They do not any more. I would rather put the money in NetSol's pocket, as long as it costs BD & US lots of money in the process.

I see your point, as long as we are clear that BD means BuyDomains and not BigDave!

How about we accept Dotster's proposal to run the WLS registry so that NetSol and SnapNames get left holding the bag! :laugh:

BD

 

Originally posted by RealNames
Even if it only levels the playing field a little but costs buydomains and ultsearch lots of extra money in the process, that's fine with me.

BD already has more than 100,000 good names. They do not any more. I would rather put the money in NetSol's pocket, as long as it costs BD & US lots of money in the process..

Jealousy is never a good basis for decision making.

 

[DropWizard.com]

BD already has more than 100,000 good names. They do not any more. I would rather put the money in NetSol's pocket, as long as it costs BD & US lots of money in the process.

Honestly. NSI had a monopoly and like most monopolies completed F***** the clients and any thought of service.

Buy domains is an honest hardworking competitor who has done well.

NSI would like to get a monopoly back. It's the only way they'll ever survive short of having a "scorched earth" rebuilding.

And you'd like to assist NSI

Do you work for them

 

[David G]

Originally posted by gmartfin Honestly. NSI had a monopoly and like most monopolies completed F***** the clients and any thought of service. Buy domains is an honest hardworking competitor who has done well. NSI would like to get a monopoly back. It's the only way they'll ever survive short of having a "scorched earth" rebuilding. And you'd like to assist NSI Do you work for them

Personally, I thoroughly dislike NetSol but dislike BD more than NetSol. Difference is NetSol is not grabbing all these names for themselves, BD & US are doing that.

Also, the money going to NetSol may help the Internet in general and perhaps they will do a better job whereas the money going into the pockets of the owners of BD & US helps no one else.

These 2 outfits contibute nothing much to the Internet other than hoarding of names by using techniques the average player can not participate in, partly due to lack of expertise and the tools needed.

At least with WLS anyone can participate on the same terms and without insider advantages and expertise required.

 

I think your comments are offensive to ult and bd, companies who have *worked* to get where they are rather than expecting to have it handed to them on a plate.

Can't think of any other business where "expertise" is not an advantage - so why do you expect to be carried in the domain business?

 

[David G]

Originally posted by safesys I think your comments are offensive to ult and bd, companies who have *worked* to get where they are rather than expecting to have it handed to them on a plate. Can't think of any other business where "expertise" is not an advantage - so why do you expect to be carried in the domain business?

Because domain names are public and regulated as such for the public good. It's not a private non-regulated industry, where expertise is good, is it? Public expired name drops should be fair for everyone and should not require great expertise and insider advantages as they do now.

Too bad if you think what I said are offensive to BS and US, I really don't care how offensive it sounds :razz: It's offensive to the general public they can not get good names due to the current unfair to the public system

Do you work for or somehow connected to BuyDomains? You seem incredibly biased in favor of their domain hoarding to everyone's disadvantage but theirs.

 

I respect Ult and BD - as I do anyone who achieves success through effort.

 

[David G]

Originally posted by safesys I respect Ult and BD - as I do anyone who achieves success through effort.

I feel the same way in PRIVATE NON-REGULATED INDUSTRY but not the govt publically regulated domain name system.

I have total disrespect for the current system and also some of the money hungry hoarding participants who could care less about John Q Public ever getting a good name on a level playing field but only want to line their already deep-pockets.

 

Your barrier to success is all in your head.

 

[bigdave]

Originally posted by RealNames
I feel the same way in PRIVATE NON-REGULATED INDUSTRY but not the govt publically regulated domain name system.

You might want to read up on the history of the Dept of Commerce, ICANN, and Netsol/Verisign. The D.O.C has basically handed over everything to ICANN. Verisign and Snapnames state that ICANN has no authority to deny WLS, only to set pricing. About the only thing the players can all agree on is that ICANN is a failure. Many feel that failure is a significant understatement.

The current situation does not really qualify as being government regulated. ICANN was created to divorce the system from the US government, as the rest of the world does not like the USG having control over the Internet.

Of course if you really do the research, you will find that it all boils down to 13 root servers, and an ASCII text file in Herndon VA. If everybody starts using homegrown versions of BIND, the game is up! Check out New Root web site for an example of the coming chaos!!

BD

 

[GeorgeK]

Think of WLS as a form of tax. If everyone's income tax rate goes up by 10%, do you somehow feel you're better off, because the millionaires are also paying more taxes?? I don't think so...everyone is worse off, except for the tax collector, i.e. Verisign.

 

[Nic]

George i see where you are coming from...
But the small players are F***ED either way....
I say bring on WLS and lets test drive it for ourselves...

 

[morel]

Originally posted by GeorgeK
Think of WLS as a form of tax. If everyone's income tax rate goes up by 10%, do you somehow feel you're better off, because the millionaires are also paying more taxes?? I don't think so...everyone is worse off, except for the tax collector, i.e. Verisign.

The WLS is not simply a form a tax. It is a fundamentally different way of distributing expiring domain names. It is, as I stated in an earlier post, a first come, first serve system as opposed the current system, which is not first come, first serve. It may not be the most perfect system, but its better than what we have now because first, come first serve is simply more "fair". True, it depends on how you define more "fair". I define "fair" in the public interest, not the professional domain cyber-squatters.

And if you want to look at the WLS from a cost perspective, consider this:

* It probably costs BD and UltSearch < $0.25 / year of bandwidth to moniter a name. With the WLS, it might be something like $40 / year, so their costs are increases.

* For you GeorgeK, it costs about (correct me if I'm wrong) $70 / year to moniter a name with SnapNames. With the WLS, it will be $40 / year, just like BD and UltSearch. You will actually be saving money
Not only will you be saving money, but you will be paying the same amount as BD, and you will certainly get your name. With a Snap, you pay more, and are assured of nothing.

 

[hosting3.com]

NSI will be the big winner of WLS... if there will be no policy to drop expired names they can hold them for years and keep the proposed WLS annual fees without a refund.. what a shame.

NOO TO WLS! NO TO LOSERS! NO TO NSI AND SNAPNAMES (hopefully a soon to-be failed dot-com).

 

[uncle]

a first come, first serve system as opposed the current system

what else do we have now if not first come, first serve??
it doesn't matter who spots a domain first, it's who gets it first.

this is frst come, first serve.

besides, look up thewitt's post a couple of posts up. if he's right, how on earth are YOU gonna come first to get good wls subscriptions?

 

Hosting3, I don't like being put in a position to have to defend VRSN, but. . . .

In looking at the current status of various proposals, it is extremely unlikely that the WLS will be implemented without some sort of concurrent policy on domain deletions. The situation you describe (fairly common at present) where Verisign fails to release a name that according to the Whois is well past the expiration date will almost certainly be addressed prospectively before any WLS is implemented.

Whether one thinks the WLS is a good or bad idea, claiming that VRSN is the only financial winner is false. Any registrar who actively promotes this product ought to do pretty well too: why do registrars get into the expiring name business now? Because the margins are so much higher than regular registrations.

As to wanting Snapnames to fail, I can't agree - they've always been straight with me. What about them makes you so angry?