John - you know trademark law better than anybody I know.
I am well aware of your diversions - you make this more complicated than it is.
A mark is SUPPOSED to identify source - when you use the same US mark more than once, it no longer identifies source.
That the US Trademark System is a sham - is not a matter of opinion - it is most assuredly a matter of fact.
This is demonstrable.
I am well aware of the distinction between opinion and fact.
J> Mr. Anderson, you are a looney.
As some great people were considered looney, I will take that as compliment - thank you ;-)
J> You make two assertions above, which are slightly different from each other.
You slightly misrepresent what I said - the second assertion is the only way to achieve the first - n.b. quote: "TO DO THIS".
J> As to "does a mark identify the source", the answer is yes.
YES
Exactly - this is THE ABSOLUTE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE OF TRADEMARK LAW.
J> As to the second assertion, the answer is no, because the second assertion is an oversimplification.
The "exclusive right to use the mark nationwide" is the only way to achieve THE ABSOLUTE FUNDAMENTAL PREMISE OF TRADEMARK LAW - THAT THE MARK IDENTIFIES THE SOURCE.
You hold two concurrent US Registered Trademark "product X" in your hand - how do you identify source of "product X" to the source of "product X" - from this mark?
In order to identify source from the mark - it has to be unique to that product.
J> It is an appropriate oversimplification .. (traffic law analogy).
NO - it is AN ABSOLUTE FUNDAMENTAL.
Let me give you a traffic law analogy:
It is as if everybody is told in US to drive on one side of the road and then finds another US citizen driving on the wrong side towards them.
There is not even a sign to say change lanes.
Before you give the obvious reply - people in America know that others drive on the "wrong side" - but they come from other countries.
J> Clearly registration provides a nationwide presumption unless the certificate states otherwise right on its face. Very few do, and it is not worth complicating an introductory FAQ to bring up exceptions.
How will people EVEN KNOW when a specific US Registered trademark has more than one source?
Is there anything different to the (r in circle) - an (r in box) perhaps ;-)
J> You confuse distinctiveness and uniqueness.
I laughed and laughed and laughed and laughed.
NO - you are funny - it is the US authorities that confuse distinctiveness and uniqueness.
The "exclusive right to use the mark nationwide on or in connection with the goods and/or services" is uniqueness - truth or lie?
To identify the source from US mark alone - it has to be unique - they need "exclusive right to use the mark nationwide".
J> You have based your understanding of trademark law on broad oversimplifications, and it frustrates you that things are more complex than you first believed.
NO - you misrepresent - I am very sure you know that I can do difficult and complex.
J> Now, I have provided you with a list of fully seven countries which permit concurrent registration. I am not going to do a worldwide survey for you, and I chose countries of the UK Commonwealth tradition, since their statutes are readily findable online in English.
What is it about - "Moronic stupidity in one country does not excuse it in another" - that you do not understand?
J> What you refuse to understand are the qualifying conditions that may be put on concurrent registrations, after a review of the facts of the marketplace as it exists for the relevant products.
What is it about - Zip Code Lottery and all associated arguments - that you do not understand?
J> You want the law to have mathematical precision and clarity, because that suits your view of the nature of thingsââ¬Â¦.
NO - I understand the complexity of things within law e.g. murder, manslaughter, justified homicide etc.
J> What you also don't want to deal with is that distinctiveness depends on context.
I certainly dealt with distinctiveness and how it is not sufficient to identify source of mark.
More importantly, what you cannot deal with - is that in order to identify source from US registered mark - it has to be unique to that product.
How come you do not understand that FUNDAMENTAL FACT?
J> You can issue a registration for the mark "USC" to both the University of South Carolina and the University of Southern California, because neither of those institutions is going to pack up and move into the same neighborhood. Ditto the restrictions on other concurrent registrations - the registration is effective only to the extent of the noted restrictions, which is what all of those concurrent registrations statutes are driving at.
So then, they are not allowed to advertise or distribute outside these areas e.g. resellers, national magazines and newspapers, the Internet?
So then, everybody is told not to pass (either to sell or give as present) those products to people in other States - so as not to infringe another registered trademark or cause consumer confusion?
If these conditions are not true - then there is NO REAL RESTRICTIONS upon them.
There is conflict of these US registered marks.
There is absolutely nothing stopping them using a mark unregistered - is there?
J> The point is to have a trademark registration system that takes reality into account, and not to warp reality around what you want a trademark registration system to look like.
NO - you misrepresent again - as most people, I want a trademark registration system to look like a trademark registration system.
Like everybody - I want a mark identify the source.
J> But to take what amounts to a generally true first-approximation, from a USPTO FAQ page, and to behave as if that is the be-all and end-all of trademark law, is ridiculous.
You go into spin mode again.
Quote: "a legal presumption of the registrant's ownership of the mark and the registrant's exclusive right to use the mark nationwide on or in connection with the goods and/or services listed in the registration;"
This was what intelligent people believe to be wholly true of registered trademarks - to call it an "approximation" is to be somewhat contemptuous of them.
IT IS ALSO the only way only way to identify the source from US mark.
J> Do Newton's laws of motion explain all dynamic phenomena? No, they don't. Then why do we waste our time teaching them? Because they are a generally valid first approximation, and applicable to most ordinary situations.
J> My first physics teacher was a corrupt liar - he taught me Newtonian physics.
My maths teacher was nice person - he taught me to be top of the class ;-)
So - I presume you agree - that UDRP taking a domain from the law abiding legal owner is trademark overreach (e.g. jt.com and nhn.com)?