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For Sale Yet another WLS thread...

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ddent

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Just some food for thought:

I really don't think WLS is a good thing at all. Perhaps somebody who has connections with one of the registrars should get that registrar to put a 'competitive bid' for being the one to run the WLS.

There is _NO_ reason that should WLS go through it need be VeriSign running it.

And I'm sure other registrars would be more than happy to run the service, at far less cost than VeriSign proposes. I know I would be!

But the point is more to see what VeriSign thinks of having a monopoly arrangement if they aren't going to be the ones with the monopoly.
 
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Anthony Ng

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Originally posted by ddent
There is _NO_ reason that should WLS go through it need be VeriSign running it.

And I'm sure other registrars would be more than happy to run the service ...
WLS was proposed NOT by a REGISTRAR but the Verisign Global REGISTRY Services.
 

clemzonguy

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I have definitely changed my outlook from earlier in the year. It makes perfect business sense for Verisign to make this move. They have a winning argument (ICANN bought it for the most part) fueled by all the abuses that I I have seen in just the last few years and recent months with registry connections. Verisign is paid to maintain the registry and that's what they are doing. We see more and more people bringing independent drop clubs that cater to high dollars clients or private individuals. I have yet to win a single name at any private drop club which leads me to believe they don't submit but the top 5-10 bidded names (and i bid pretty high). All my wins thus far have come from Enom, Snaps, Namewinner. Buydomains cleans up the platter with their own private connections which I think is bullcrap. I do like the pool.com system as it allows all those parties interested to duke it out in an auction. But I don't know that the registrar should benefit directly with a large payout. Maybe the money could be used to paydown the national debt or something more useful. Verisign subscriptions should be in the $40-$80 range from what I'm guessing but you never know with them especially once the system is in place. All snapnames has to do is flip a switch and they will be operating on the WLS system. I don't think anyone can afford to overspeculate on names that may or may not drop. Snaps are interchangeable and I don't think WLS subscriptions will be (correct me if i'm wrong). I think the word "fair" and "competition" are words we all need to consider the meaning of in the context of both the current system and the WLS.
 

ddent

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Originally posted by nameslave

WLS was proposed NOT by a REGISTRAR but the Verisign Global REGISTRY Services.

The distinction is merely a formality so that they can continue to do both, no?
 

ddent

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Originally posted by clemzonguy
I don't think anyone can afford to overspeculate on names that may or may not drop. Snaps are interchangeable and I don't think WLS subscriptions will be (correct me if i'm wrong). I think the word "fair" and "competition" are words we all need to consider the meaning of in the context of both the current system and the WLS.

That is where I think you are wrong. If buydomains et all can afford many thousand dollar bids at drop clubs, and can afford their own RRP connections, why wouldn't they be able to buy a ton of WLS entries?

In fact, I think all it will do is push the smaller players completely out of the market. What will happen will be the only way to survive will be to get a *lot* of WLS entries, since you know you won't be able to sell them all. Only the people with huge portfolios will be able to afford only selling a small percentage of them.

And what next? WLS for WLS subscriptions? Where does it end?

The current system makes it possible for anybody to run a drop club and try and get drops. The ones that do well will be the ones that get customers.

There are 120 or so registrars IIRC. Thats 4800 bulk submission connections.

And people can always become accredited themselves.
 

clemzonguy

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the only way to survive will be to get a *lot* of WLS entries, since you know you won't be able to sell them all

I'm not trying to make a living reselling domain names. It's nice get an occasional profit from one yeah. But I mainly buy them so I can use them for business as an end user (which i find more rewarding). So as an end user (in most respects) I know which names are valuable to me and I could pre-order them easier with a WLS system. The investment would be great for me since I would have a personal stake in the name other than reselling it. As a speculator you buy just any old name you see on the pending delete lists that you think might fetch a quick handsome profit. With WLS you can't do this necessarily.

And what next? WLS for WLS subscriptions? Where does it end?

Very good point but doesn't make sense at all in reality. No one is going to buy a WLS subscription on a name right after it's redeemed on a name that drops. The new owner surely wouldn't drop it again after trying so hard to get it in the first place (well guess that hard since it only requires a WLS so maybe i should say patient).

I think all it will do is push the smaller players completely out of the market.

Since this is a game of speculation.....I think it will boost domain sales and/or values within the first few months to half a year after introduction. If the media catches on to it (which to my knowledge it hasn't yet) then people will be less likely to drop domain names that they might have otherwise forgotten about or though were invaluable. The veil of secrecy will be coming off this game and we will be able to tell stories around the campfire of the days before the WLS.

Values of domains will also be increased by people trying to contact previous owners of websites to try and purchase them directly. Domains that have received no buy offers could possibly be inundated by both lowball offers and high stakes as well. It can happen now but people have no motivation to do so now if they can just simply pick it up during the drop for probably a lot cheap in some cases. I've lost plenty of names to people by tipping them off that the domain was on-hold and by offering to buy it from them at whatever price.

I think it will actualy help smaller players....by smaller players I mean non-speculators. Small speculators are gonna loose out anyways cause most are clueless about what they are doing or what's of value. People simply want to do business on the internet and find a website that isn't taken already. They might even buy other TLDs without bias (i have seen a lot of this lately). While some will make uninformed WLS purchases, others will choose wisely and win big in the long run.

If buydomains et all can afford many thousand dollar bids at drop clubs, and can afford their own RRP connections

Well from what I know none of this is published information about who bids what. If you have any insider information about their bidding habits please let me know. I guess you might have been the lower bidder to know this? :( If so why would you want to stay in a system where they will beat you not only with high bids but with their own private connections!

As far as I know some names I go after most times they (buydomains and others) don't even take out the snap on it because they are confident enough to get it with their own connections and beat snaps and NW. Buydomains can afford to make an investment on a domain name that will pay off big b/c they have the capital to invest upfront. And it's a winning situation for them. They cannot however cost justify it on smaller "less valued" domains on a larger scale IMHO. Depending on how many sales they have made in the past year I would say they are pretty highly leveraged but I don't know their financial situation.

why wouldn't they be able to buy a ton of WLS entries

Well snapnames will try and grandfather at least most snaps into the system. There will be a landrush for a few hundred if not thousand hand picked domains and then a ton of bad purchases that never even expire. It's a loosing game because you buy a WLS and get in the hole year after year hoping the name drops. If you don't renew someone else will and play the same game. Just the type of thing to topple a house of cards that is stacked too high. BD could raise revenue if necessary by selling off some of it's current names at "bargain" (reasonable) prices. So they do seem to be pretty flexible.

I would love to hear other people's ideas whether they agree with me or not on some of these points. I am open to changing my mind at any time. These are just a few of my thoughts at the moment.
 

Edwin

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Perhaps somebody could explain why the little guys should get given the gift of a level playing field? (Apart from the dreamy "It would be nice if..." of course)

I can't think of any industry where having MUCH more money and MANY more resources than your competitors doesn't give a competitive advantage, so why should the domain name industry be any different?

If I am in the widget business and I have 100x the resources of the little widget guy down the road, I am going to squash him like a bug (unless he comes up with something stunningly innovative that I can't duplicate quickly). So again, why should the domain name industry be different?

In other words, is there anything behind the argument beyond a feeling of "obligation" i.e. is there any SUBSTANTIVE REASON why any domain name catching system (WLS or other) must give the little guy just as much chances as the big guy?
 

Jack Gordon

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Originally posted by Edwin
Perhaps somebody could explain why the little guys should get given the gift of a level playing field? (Apart from the dreamy "It would be nice if..." of course)

I can't think of any industry where having MUCH more money and MANY more resources than your competitors doesn't give a competitive advantage, so why should the domain name industry be any different?

If I am in the widget business and I have 100x the resources of the little widget guy down the road, I am going to squash him like a bug (unless he comes up with something stunningly innovative that I can't duplicate quickly). So again, why should the domain name industry be different?

In other words, is there anything behind the argument beyond a feeling of "obligation" i.e. is there any SUBSTANTIVE REASON why any domain name catching system (WLS or other) must give the little guy just as much chances as the big guy?

Spoken like a true capitalist.

The only argument I have with your argument is that large corporations like Verisign don't deserve to be handed a monopoly, which seems to be the inevitable result of WLS.

What is the first thing that is going to happen with WLS? That's right, the price of drops is skyrocketing by about 8 times their current price.

Monopoly power corrupts. Verisign has not earned my trust to be the sole guardian of this enterprise. If WLS happens, that most likely will be enough to push a large chunk of the current domain market out of the domain business.

Prices go up, interest goes down, more and more valuable domains wind up in the hands of fewer and fewer people.

Sounds like a great plan!
 

actnow

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"Follow the money!"

All the benefits that Verisign states is the "salesman's" justification for doing it.

One to two years from now, the major profit in the domain industry will be will be made by the "grantor" of the license.
 

hiOsilver

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Reasons for WLS:

1. Treats everyone the same.
2. Every time I find a decent name and get the snap on it 6 months ahead of time, I still get beat by BD.
3. Does not pour an absurd amount of profit into Namewinner or whomever (auction based service) on a single name. Like, if I find a really good name, I should bid $5,000 at Namewinner? How many WLS will I be able to buy for $5,000.
 

Cash Is King

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Originally posted by hiOsilver
Reasons for WLS:

2. Every time I find a decent name and get the snap on it 6 months ahead of time, I still get beat by BD.

So What. This is the beauty of competition. Monopolies are like the communist party, they will charge what ever the hell they want to. Control does not belong to one entity.
 

hiOsilver

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So what? Well, it would be nice for me to pick up a name that I figure is likely to drop, especially when I figure that out before everyone else. With WLS, I will be able to get those names. Now, BD just has to focus their resources, and they get almost everything they want.

Some monopolies make sense. Like how about if we had competition for the registry? Well, this is an extension of the functions of the registry.

There still will be a role for other drop services. They will be worthless for the most valuable names, but they will still work for a lot of lesser names.
 

Cartoonz

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Like throwing sheep to the wolves... some never learn.
 

clemzonguy

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Monopolies are like the communist party, they will charge what ever the hell they want to

You mean Buydomains don't you?

Well, it would be nice for me to pick up a name that I figure is likely to drop, especially when I figure that out before everyone else. With WLS, I will be able to get those names. Now, BD just has to focus their resources, and they get almost everything they want.

Exactly what I say! Level the playing field and trim off the fat. BD and others can't afford to buy WLS spots on every single domain that might drop in the future on every single keyword in every single market. Even if I was only able to pre-order 20-40% of the names I wanted that would still be a huge victory.

There still will be a role for other drop services.

I disagree with you here though. There will no longer be a prominent role! This is what scares Cartoonz (DropCatcher.com) and others. If someone is against something ask yourself what do they have to loose from it. Everything...in his case.
 
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