legal јр.com – I was a victim!

[Wot]

Taken from my blog.

"You have seen the reported “sale” of јр.com xn--p1a1c.com for $1100
On contacting the new owner it transpires, that as we had guessed, he did not realize it was an IDN and in his words “I am a victim”.

Many of you will be aware that myself and others have been trying to get Sedo to take notice of these lookalike real English words that are in fact IDN this one “јр” being Serbo-Croat cyrillic.

I have no doubt that these names were created solely to confuse and part the unwary newbie from their money.

Currently the same Russian owner of јр.com (sorry ex owner) has these on Sedo, some had been on auction with the necessary one bid to get the name off and running.

ѕео.com Created 11th Dec 2011
аѕѕ.com Created 16th Nov 2011
арр.com Created 16th Nov 2011
есо.com Created 16th Nov 2011

More:

рі.com
ја.com
ѕі.com
хѕ.com
сі.com
іѕо.com
ріе.com
роѕ.com
еуе.com
рѕі.com

I hope nobody else has been caught out by this mutton purporting to be lamb!

Now you may say that the “buyer” should have been aware? But IDN are very new to the majority of the community and as pointed out these names are created simply to take advantage of this and already at least one person has been taken in by it. I am in fact sure he is not the first and will most definitely be the last.

Any chance the buyer could get recompense? Well Sedo will say we pointed out that the name(s) were IDN with a small logo to indicate that and on the auction page it refers to the punycode, a nice get out clause perhaps.

But wait, this seller has had a number of these recently registered names make it to auction. That of course requires an opening bid. I am willing to bet that each of those opening bids were either from the same person or new members signing up with the sole purpose to make a bid.

Yes, I am saying that I think that each of the names from this seller and similar names from other sellers currently on /or have been on Sedo auction are “shill bids”.

Now if that is the case Sedo had been advised on many occasions by myself and others what was going on and had done nothing about it. Sedo should look back at these names in question, check out the first bidder in each case, do a little sleuthing and show some transparency and let the community know if there is anything untoward going on or that they are satisfied that their current due diligence meets requirements.


If I was the buyer armed with this information I would be seeking legal advice at this point in time.

What do you think?"

 

[silentg]

1. There's nothing wrong with pushing a domain to auction. I have asked people to push my domain to auction on DNF and NP in the past. And people still do it on DNF. Is there shill bidding going on? We won't know for sure until Sedo investigates.

2. it says IDN on the auction search page and an Important Notice on the auction page. What more can Sedo do?

---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------

Did you tell Sedo you didn't know it was an IDN domain? If you did then what was their response?

 

[Wot]

1. There's nothing wrong with pushing a domain to auction. I have asked people to push my domain to auction on DNF and NP in the past. And people still do it on DNF. Is there shill bidding going on? We won't know for sure until Sedo investigates.

2. it says IDN on the auction search page and an Important Notice on the auction page. What more can Sedo do?

---------- Post added at 11:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:23 PM ----------


ou will see that is not my domain.

As for shill bidding this a domain along with many others owned by the same person and all registered within the last 3-4 months most of which have received initial bids of $1000 or more-what do you think?

I also asked the buyer what Sedo had said:


Did you tell Sedo you didn't know it was an IDN domain? If you did then what was their response?

我对Sedo很失望，当我了解到jp.com是一个IDN域名的时候，我多次与Sedo交涉，

Sedo也已经了解到，当我参与竞拍时，我并不知道它是一个IDN域名。

但是Sedo却不领情，认为我已经竞拍中标，就必须交易下去。也许是因为我已经在Paypal中支付了款项。

但我多次提出，我是上当受骗，是一个受害者时，Sedo并不领情，强制交易！在我不同意的情况下，SEDO为我在maddogdomains.com创建一个帐号，并把IDN域名过户过去。迫使我完成这一次交易。

从始至终，我都没有同意，这一交易继续下去。

因为我不太懂英语，所以也不知道如何申诉，如何把这一事件公开。

即使这一次事件已经无法挽回，但是我希望你能帮我把他公布出来，让大家不要再上当受骗！

最后，我对Sedo的做法，表示强烈的不满！

Basically means tough,we are not interested.

---------- Post added at 11:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:46 AM ----------

Not sure what happened with my reply, everything went haywire but I guess you get the gist?

 

[silentg]

I'll keep in mind about Sedo. They'll care if you can get ElliotsBlog.com or TheDomains.com to do a post on this.

 

[Wot]

I'll keep in mind about Sedo. They'll care if you can get ElliotsBlog.com or TheDomains.com to do a post on this.

I think they have been made aware by others but no action to date.

MonikerBlog.com is on it though! (-:

 

[DigiNames]

I think that it is fine to have IDN names on Sedo if the buyers know what they are getting into. However I agree that a lot of sellers of these look-alike names hope to trick a newbie into buying it without realizing what they are really getting. The regular public knows that two letter domains are worth a lot of money, but I bet 95% of people on the street have no idea what a IDN even is.

The warning on Sedo listings is down a below the bid box and says:

Important Notice: This is an Internationalized Domain (IDN). Technically the domain is XN--Q1A6B.COM.

I think it should be in red right next to the name and say:

Important Notice: This is an Internationalized Domain (IDN), NOT a standard character name (what is an IDN? ) The exact name you are bidding on is XN--Q1A6B.COM.

If they know new buyers are being fooled they should do more to protect them. It's not good business to let customers get burned, and isn't good for the domain market in general.

 

[Wot]

I think that it is fine to have IDN names on Sedo if the buyers know what they are getting into. However I agree that a lot of sellers of these look-alike names hope to trick a newbie into buying it without realizing what they are really getting. The regular public knows that two letter domains are worth a lot of money, but I bet 95% of people on the street have no idea what a IDN even is.

The warning on Sedo listings is down a below the bid box and says:

Important Notice: This is an Internationalized Domain (IDN). Technically the domain is XN--Q1A6B.COM.

I think it should be in red right next to the name and say:

Important Notice: This is an Internationalized Domain (IDN), NOT a standard character name (what is an IDN? ) The exact name you are bidding on is XN--Q1A6B.COM.

If they know new buyers are being fooled they should do more to protect them. It's not good business to let customers get burned, and isn't good for the domain market in general.

If you read my blog I have had a native Chinese translate what the buyers reply was,quite disturbing. One side of the story sure but Sedo come out of it very badly.

 

[DN BROKER]

I agree the system fails to protect rookies.

 

[hugegrowth]

there are a few of those IDN's on auction at Sedo, buyer beware.

 

[ImageAuthors]

I agree wholeheartedly that Sedo ought to change the way they list IDN's. This problem is 100% preventable. But, so long as Sedo collects their money and loses no clients, Sedo will have no incentive to change.

As others have suggested, a fair way to list an IDN at auction would be to place the punycode first and the legible IDN beside it. There is a legitimate market for IDNs, and these buyers will still make their purchases. But it is simply dishonest for Sedo (or, at the least, Sedo is negligently abetting dishonesty) to present IDNs in such a way that buyers will be tricked. When I go into the Apple store to buy a laptop, should I have to look for a small sticker on the box that says "solid wood replica"? No!

Here is my practical advice for the victim: Don't pay. Go to the media. Call up newspapers. Get an army of bloggers on your side. And if Sedo takes legal action, hire a lawyer. If you're a domain seller as well, you might lose access to Sedo as a sales platform. But they'll also lose you as a customer.

 

[Wot]

I agree wholeheartedly that Sedo ought to change the way they list IDN's. This problem is 100% preventable. But, so long as Sedo collects their money and loses no clients, Sedo will have no incentive to change.

As others have suggested, a fair way to list an IDN at auction would be to place the punycode first and the legible IDN beside it. There is a legitimate market for IDNs, and these buyers will still make their purchases. But it is simply dishonest for Sedo (or, at the least, Sedo is negligently abetting dishonesty) to present IDNs in such a way that buyers will be tricked. When I go into the Apple store to buy a laptop, should I have to look for a small sticker on the box that says "solid wood replica"? No!

Here is my practical advice for the victim: Don't pay. Go to the media. Call up newspapers. Get an army of bloggers on your side. And if Sedo takes legal action, hire a lawyer. If you're a domain seller as well, you might lose access to Sedo as a sales platform. But they'll also lose you as a customer.

Me for a start,some few months now with up to this point little notice.


Another poor b about to get screwed by our Russian with help from Sedo.

http://www.sedo.co.uk/auction/auctio...460&language=e

This gem registered 15th Feb 2012,could not possibly have been another shill bid to get it off and running-could it?

---------- Post added at 05:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:54 PM ----------

No edit function?

http://www.sedo.co.uk/auction/aucti...id=124997&tracked=&partnerid=14460&language=e

 

[Biggie]

in todays market and times, i'm sure one must know that "jp.com" would not close at $1k, unless it was idn name or stolen

or maybe the buyer had to be thinking "this is a too good to be true" deal, and everybody else is asleep

just saying....
do you think they ever tried to register a two letter .com, prior to seeing the sedo auction?
do you think they never read about the sale of any two letter tld?
do you think they knew the jp was also cctld for japan?
do you think they were that much of a newb?


whatchu think?


but why not just start your own "idn subdomains" @ .domain.xn--p1a1c.com

 

[katherine]

I see a few problems:

How can Sedo differentiate between legitimate IDNs (keywords in non-Latin scripts) and the worthless made-up domains. Some are obvious, some are less obvious.
Because of the many languages and scripts involved even a human being doesn't have the adequate knowledge to moderate listings.

Sedo shows the domain in punny-code form, yet that doesn't seem to be enough.

I remember that in the past some IDNers complained about Sedo showing the domain equivalent in punny code (xn--) - their point was that it would scare buyers from genuine IDNs !

In theory people should conduct due diligence and honor their bids. If they didn't do enough research, then it's an expensive lesson. However, that's the theory.
Legally speaking and while I'm not a lawyer, I would say this is a case of vitiated consent. These transactions are doomed to fail and that benefits no-one.

One suggestion: do like Afternic and show domain in both lowercase and uppercase, it sometimes helps. In addition to the full punny code of course. Perhaps choose a font that makes thing clearer if possible.

 

[Theo]

I don't get it. It clearly says:

"Important Notice: This is a Multi-Lingual (IDN) Domain.
Technically you are acquiring the domain xn--n1a9b.com"

Do people not read?

 

[Stian]

Another auction just started now for еуе.com ( xn--e1aa5b.com ) with a $500 starting bid.

This is most definitely either a shill bid or some poor newbie has made a $500 offer without checking what he actually bids on.

Either way, those who sell these worthless crap domains are scammers and they should be treated as such.

 

[DN BROKER]

I don't get it. It clearly says:



[/B]Do people not read?

No they don't!

 

[ImageAuthors]

People are (unfortunately) conditioned to NOT read the fine print by all the user agreements they have to click through online. And if I were a new domainer or someone without a computer background, I would certainly not imagine that ЅО.COM is anything other than SO.COM--because I've never seen or heard of gobbledygook xn--n1a9b.com domains, never having run across one while surfing the web. So the statement "This is a multilingual domain (IDN). Technically you are acquiring ... " would be incomprehensible to me, and I'd probably write it off as some innocuous legalese.

At some point everybody is a new domainer. I've intentionally bought quite a few real-word, foreign-language IDNs, knowing what they were; and I would not have been dissuaded by seeing the punycode. (After all, a fair market place sells good merchandise to people who want what they're getting.) But the first IDN I bought was in a Sedo auction--Yä,com. Certainly I knew it was a multilingual domain because of the umlaut; so Sedo's notice didn't deter me. And I was prepared to let Yä.com be encoded as something else--sure, why not? After all, I don't mind the sentence I'm now writing being represented as a binary string. However, at the time, I didn't realize that Yä,com would not be DISPLAYED as Yä,com in the address bar. (After all, isn't that a policy decision made by the browsers and not an inescapable reality?) It took me a week's worth of profanity to accept this shortcoming and admit that Yä,com might still have value in a more limited market.

But I'd guess that most of the people who know this limitation with respect to IDNs are domainers who were active as domainers when IDNs first arrived and were actively discussed. I wasn't. So I have a bit more sympathy with people who fail to understand the significance of Sedo's disclaimer.

 

[airmax]

You have to be on both sides of this one, being a newbie, and seeing jp in the title, it is really a tough call, some people choose not to see the fine print, but to have a potential 7 figure name, bought for $1,xxx, to good to be true principal, but then you think you have sedo backing you on the deal, you may go through with it. Most people in this business are self taught with over a decade of experience, I still don't get idn's to this day, but I saw jp listed at sedo, and I clicked it, and saw the IDN warning, and closed the box right away. All of us have learned lessons in this business in regards to some financial transaction.

 

[ImageAuthors]

How can Sedo differentiate between legitimate IDNs (keywords in non-Latin scripts) and the worthless made-up domains. Some are obvious, some are less obvious.
Because of the many languages and scripts involved even a human being doesn't have the adequate knowledge to moderate listings.

Nobody at Sedo needs to moderate IDN submissions. There's a wide gap between impostor domains, designed to be indistinguishable to the naked eye from non-IDNs, and foreign-language words in, say, Chinese or Arabic that are what they purport to be. Sedo doesn't need to moderate because a buyer is able to differentiate between these two types--IF they're presented more clearly as IDNs and IF the nature of an IDN were better explained by the seller (Sedo). Given a more clear picture of what's for sale, buyers would reject the impostor domains without any policing from Sedo.

Sedo shows the domain in punny-code form, yet that doesn't seem to be enough.

I remember that in the past some IDNers complained about Sedo showing the domain equivalent in punny code (xn--) - their point was that it would scare buyers from genuine IDNs !

Sedo only shows the punny-code in what amounts to a footnote on the way to entering a bid.

 

[Cartoonz]

there's a simple solution for this...
Sedo should list the domain being sold as xn--p1a1c.com, NOT "jp.com"
Why? Because every other domain is listed in the native language of the page... it makes absolutely no sense to be showing the punycode translated domain as the primary listing when obviously that is not "what it seems".
Basically, the primary (and REAL domain) is xn--p1a1c.com. it is not "whatever that translates to by work of magical unicorns running the interwebs...

Will SEDO do it? Not likely. Ask yourself why...

---------- Post added at 05:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 PM ----------

the "footnote" should be the translated punycode, not the other way around... they actually are complicate in perpetrating the intended confusion by doing it the way they are.