news An important note on lifetime accounts

Dear DNForum members,

This is an important note to all lifetime membership holders (memberships of any type).

I would like to inform you that after careful consideration, I am considering canceling all lifetime memberships on DNForum.com. While I understand that this may come as disappointing news to some of our members, we believe that this is a necessary step to ensure the long-term sustainability of our forum.

In 2 words: Lifetime offers are Unsustainable

I am sure, you understand that maintaining a forum of this size on the internet is a costly endeavor, and unfortunately, the people and companies who sold lifetime memberships did not consider the long-term costs associated with running a forum. I believe that every business must be able to sustain itself, and I hope that all DNF members can appreciate this decision to ensure the longevity and very existance of our community.

The plan is: Effective May 31, 2023, all lifetime memberships will expire. Moving forward, the primary difference between a free account and a full account will be the ability to have a signature, larger inbox, and access to exclusive forums.

I encourage you, and all of our members to discuss this decision in this thread over the next 30 days, until May 30, 2023.

Look, the winners will be everybody! This will help us to get a new life into the DNF, and I am 100% confident that we will be able to have much more new content and visitors than it has today, and that the winners will be everybody.

Nobody enjoys a niche business forum that is weak!

Best regards,
Helmuts

 

[Castion]

I understand your point, but despite all the valid arguments you mentioned, the forum went down to the position where it is now. Of course, I exaggerating, but maybe the talk about how to sell keto in India isn't the worst option.

"He whom does not know the past is doomed to repeat it"...

The reason the forum went down is because AD, whom Helmuts feature heavily in his podcasts, swindled a large number of forum members. And to this day has not made them whole.

He did try the "keto in india" route to and made this part crypto part domain forum. That did not go well and only further exacerbated the decline.

Also the reason the forum structure was down to very few sub forums is because when you have 50 sub forums it becomes much more obvious that there is little to no activity. This further leads people to post less. Who wants to post a name for sale when the last post in the category was 2 weeks ago?

I applaud coming into this with fresh eyes, but learning a bit about what went down historically and what has been tried commercially will certainly aid your endeavor.

EDIT
Also I would like to remark that during our two years of ownership of DNForum.com there was never a single month that it was not profitable. Advertisers more than covered the server costs and the upgrades was just a little gravy. But really the primary bone was the associated benefits of owning the place. I landed several big names as a broker and the commissions from these are more than I made from selling the company to Epik.. And AFAIK we were the only sellers coming close to getting 6 figures for the place.

 

[DNF Admin]

"He whom does not know the past is doomed to repeat it"...

The reason the forum went down is because AD, whom Helmuts feature heavily in his podcasts, swindled a large number of forum members. And to this day has not made them whole.

He did try the "keto in india" route to and made this part crypto part domain forum. That did not go well and only further exacerbated the decline.

Also the reason the forum structure was down to very few sub forums is because when you have 50 sub forums it becomes much more obvious that there is little to no activity. This further leads people to post less. Who wants to post a name for sale when the last post in the category was 2 weeks ago?

I applaud coming into this with fresh eyes, but learning a bit about what went down historically and what has been tried commercially will certainly aid your endeavor.

Thank you @Castion, this is informative.

 

[Theo]

I'm here for the popcorn. Clearly Helmuts hasn't done due diligence on the metrics of DNForum prior to acquiring it, or he was lied to. Over the course of several ownership changes, noone dared take back the membership benefits, or ask from Exclusive/Lifetime members to pay up again. The forum has a handlful of members that still recall the good old days and that's the only reason we're here. Helmuts would be better off using a new domain and a new business model if he wanted to a) collect $750 /year memberships and b) promote his London conference.

 

[Helmuts]

@Helmuts Why are you asking for discussion when you obviously do not want it?

Calling people "inexperienced or irresponsible" when they disagree with you does not further a civil discussion. You say you are "frankly surprised you need to explain that".. Frankly I am surprised you are asking for feedback if you already think that people who disagree are "inexperienced or irresponsible". Discussion is not one person "explaining" why the other party is wrong, its two parties trying to understand each-other.

I think this post was supposed to be an olive branch to the veterans of this forum. It now reads like quite the opposite.

Remember you are now the owner, asking for discussion, but already in post three mentioning banning people is not inviting.

Thank you. I see your point.

 

[Helmuts]

@Theo.. if we put popcorn aside and leave it to Twitter that occasionally enjoys vomiting clueless optinions left and right..

Let us try talking about the nature of this Thread.

You are an "Legacy: Exclusive Lifetime" member, and I understand that you haven't got a receipt (quite sad).

Who sold you the membership? Was it Adam?

I am offering to have a conversation with members who really paid for their memberships, even if it was to a totally different company.

What are you concerned losing the most? Signature? .. or some useless title? .. I might be wrong, but it seems some previous owners did already remove all the privileges of Gold and other titles without disclosing this. .. we are still looking into this.

--
let us respect each others time, and stick to business.

I highly respect your respectful tone and comments, and could happily leave you the signature area. Could this solve the things with you?

 

[Theo]

I think you misunderstand the goal of my tone: I don't need a personal favor. You're demoting an entire class of paid-for users that have participated in the forum for years. As a matter of fact, I was one of the first who paid for a DNForum account, back in the days of Greg Ricks who created paid memberships. Then, when Dicker bought the forum I upgraded to the Exclusive tier. Memberships had benefits that are now erased as everyone who bought the forum since Dicker sold it didn't really have a business focus. Also, if you're asking for users to subsidize the operational costs then that doesn't sound very business-like in my book. If you bought DNF to use it to promote your brands and events, that's great on paper. In reality, you'll find out that a) traffic isn't that great as many users moved to other media and b) charging $750 /year for signatures and a badge won't get you much traction from those of us that have already been here for almost 20 years.

 

[Helmuts]

I think you misunderstand the goal of my tone: I don't need a personal favor. You're demoting an entire class of paid-for users that have participated in the forum for years. As a matter of fact, I was one of the first who paid for a DNForum account, back in the days of Greg Ricks who created paid memberships. Then, when Dicker bought the forum I upgraded to the Exclusive tier. Memberships had benefits that are now erased as everyone who bought the forum since Dicker sold it didn't really have a business focus. Also, if you're asking for users to subsidize the operational costs then that doesn't sound very business-like in my book. If you bought DNF to use it to promote your brands and events, that's great on paper. In reality, you'll find out that a) traffic isn't that great as many users moved to other media and b) charging $750 /year for signatures and a badge won't get you much traction from those of us that have already been here for almost 20 years.

Thank you for your explanation.

The nature of this thread is to have conversations, hear previously unseen/unheard sides, and make a final decision only after these 30 days.

Nobody has passed me the obligations to maintain these memberships, and this has never been on the table.

I am trying to find a solution to a fact that we have almost 400k Gold and other names lifetime memberships that signify the value and the reputation of the user.

--

re: ".. you're asking for users to subsidize the operational costs.."

No.

I am reforming a domain name investing forum DNForum as a business.

Aren't you ashamed that DNF has struggled all the time just because no owners have managed to secure its financial foundation?? Aren't you?

I'm not asking for donations, nor crowdfunding > this domain name business forum will be rebuilt in order to function today as a business that supports the today's needs of a DN investor.

--

Do you really wish to shame me for adjusting pricing according to today's expectancies? .. let us not go there :/

$750 is cheaper than ANY Linkedin's paid membership. 15x cheaper than Twitter's Gold ticker. Most of us pay more to our mobile companies.

$750 is an absolutely optional upgrade, available only for those who wish to stand out, and show their status.

-----

Those who have no clue what low prices can do > open your ChatGPT and learn the business term "race to the bottom" and what it does to businesses. Then carry on to YouTube.

====================

I never ever expected to buy DNForum. I was over the moon when, after 1-year long negotiations, finally bought Acorn Domains. Then this opportunity came up unexpected > I did some old good selling, and bought DNF.

Acorn Domains is the main strategy to promote the London Domain Summit.

DNForum's word is shamelessly banned at Namepros. Some Twitter accounts think that DNF is so weak that they openly spit on it. How do you like that??? .. they spit on our forum, DNFs influence and laugh that it has a new owner again.

Aren't you guys proud of yourself?? I am!

This is THE OLDEST domain forum of this scale in the world!

This is the 2nd most influential Domain Investor forum in the world!!

===============
===============

Up to this point nobody has even told me what they are afraid of losing in reality

Let us start negotiations! Shall we?

So, what do you really want?

I will wait till these 30 days are over and will make a decision only after this.

 

[DNF Admin]

Nobody has passed me the obligations to maintain these memberships, and this has never been on the table.

In fact, I'm sure that previous administrators and probably moderators are very well informed that @Helmuts acquired this forum with memberships already disabled. Not Helmuts or I ever touched paid memberships yet. All memberships were renamed to "Legacy" and all options were set to "NO" a time ago. Basically, you all were free members way before Helmuts bought this forum

@Furquan @Biggie maybe you can provide some insights on when exactly memberships were cancelled in fact?

 

[GeorgeK]

What's your business plan if not a single member pays? That is the most likely scenario ahead.....

 

[Helmuts]

What's your business plan if not a single member pays? That is the most likely scenario ahead.....

We also offer more than affordable banner advertising + will offer 3-second ads on all outgoing clicks (this will be the most expensive feature). This feature has been practiced at GFY for many many years.

I am 100% sure we will have advertisers, nothing to worry about. And the personal connections from running the London Domain Summit will help reaching the top men and women, of course.

This is a different conversation, of course

---

@GeorgeK, you have the title "Legacy: Exclusive Lifetime Member". What was the promise that was given to you, that came with it? .. Did you buy it, or was it received else how?

 

[GeorgeK]

@GeorgeK, you have the title "Legacy: Exclusive Lifetime Member". What was the promise that was given to you, that came with it? .. Did you buy it, or was it received else how?

I'm pretty sure I bought it two decades ago. Anything promised was likely posted on this very forum (check the archives, if it hasn't been deleted). e.g. threads:

Summary of New Benefits

To those who doubt they are gaining anything with the implementation of the Exclusive Memberships, here is a summary of what each Membership Level has gained in the last few months: Silver Contests Domain News Feed Lifetime membership option NFL Fantasy Football Spend previously...

www.dnforum.com

Exclusive Membership -Should I?

Hey Guys, Got a bit of spare money and wondering if anyone advises me to join as an Exclusive Member? I've looked at the comparision page and thats all good but what are the advantaged in real terms? Thanks Dean

www.dnforum.com

(from post #5)

Lifetime Membership fee of 350.00
Ability to post and reply in all forums on the system (See Chart)
Access to daily drop lists with link numbers.
Ability to attend, bid and list domains on DNF Live Auctions
Earn 4 DNF $ per post.
FREE Domain Retriever, DropLists.net & MyDomainPortfolio software.
Free Banner Ad (200x60) on Dnforum's signature
Free Advertising (10,000 page views/MO for 3 months) on our Network Sites
Will have a complete website* with banner ads and logo done at no charge by Dnforum.com.
* 5 pages static web site, 2 banners, 1 logo.
For custom web development solutions (database intergration, server side programming etc.) please contact us at [email protected]
Must be verified to have correct address and phone information on file with Dnforum.com.

https://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37789 (thread won't load, 500 error, but was referenced by other threads)

[via a search for "exclusive membership" older than May 1, 2004]

 

[GeorgeK]

P.S. Paypal online records only go back 3 years, apparently. That's likely how most of us paid for it way back when.

 

[Helmuts]

P.S. Paypal online records only go back 3 years, apparently. That's likely how most of us paid for it way back when.

I would trust you on the spot.. there are few people in the industry that have that word.

 

[Helmuts]

I'm pretty sure I bought it two decades ago. Anything promised was likely posted on this very forum (check the archives, if it hasn't been deleted). e.g. threads:

Thank you for the reference, this one seems to be the one for you: https://www.dnforum.com/threads/exclusive-membership-should-i.51969/#post-349795 .. is it?

As Felix did explain at https://www.dnforum.com/threads/an-important-note-on-lifetime-accounts.606305/post-2368591 all the previously promised benefits by previous users have been removed before us.

What are we left with, George? Is it the signature? .. anything else?

If the signature feature is kept for you and users similar to you (who claim it), would this be a good and fair solution?

Best wishes!
Helmuts

 

[Theo]

Nobody has passed me the obligations to maintain these memberships, and this has never been on the table.

$750 is cheaper than ANY Linkedin's paid membership. 15x cheaper than Twitter's Gold ticker. Most of us pay more to our mobile companies.

$750 is an absolutely optional upgrade, available only for those who wish to stand out, and show their status.

DNForum's word is shamelessly banned at Namepros. Some Twitter accounts think that DNF is so weak that they openly spit on it. How do you like that??? .. they spit on our forum, DNFs influence and laugh that it has a new owner again.

Some fun context is coming out of this thread. Key point responses per above:

1. Due diligence helps make educated decisions. If the previous moderators/operators/puppet owners removed memberships prior to your acquisition, you have a bone to pick with them - not with the user base.

2. LinkedIn is a world class professional network for which some of us have/do pay a fee as we see fit. It's a personal choice. I pay for Netflix but not for Apple TV.

3. Good to know, just remember that you are downgrading the existing benefits we paid for, instead of adding benefits for those that pay for a membership. It's what Musk did with existing Twitter Blue users (who didn't pay for their distinct mark, by the way, unlike us.)

4. I cannot comment on what NPs does but keep in mind it's linked to Dicker's reputation overall. The long thread at NPs where you supported Dicker and called out his victims to forgive his financial misappropriations and failure to make things right 7-8 years after the events unfolded.

 

[Theo]

Lastly, asking for receipts and proof of payment to confirm (and question) what took place two decades ago tells me that you didn't really think the forum had any obligations to its user base. Again, lack of due diligence.

I am not sure which former DNForum owner removed these benefits but I'm inclined to believe it was Epik, a company I would never do business with.

 

[Theo]

I'm pretty sure I bought it two decades ago. Anything promised was likely posted on this very forum (check the archives, if it hasn't been deleted). e.g. threads:

Summary of New Benefits

To those who doubt they are gaining anything with the implementation of the Exclusive Memberships, here is a summary of what each Membership Level has gained in the last few months: Silver Contests Domain News Feed Lifetime membership option NFL Fantasy Football Spend previously...

www.dnforum.com

Exclusive Membership -Should I?

Hey Guys, Got a bit of spare money and wondering if anyone advises me to join as an Exclusive Member? I've looked at the comparision page and thats all good but what are the advantaged in real terms? Thanks Dean

www.dnforum.com

(from post #5)



https://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37789 (thread won't load, 500 error, but was referenced by other threads)

[via a search for "exclusive membership" older than May 1, 2004]

Thanks George. These were the good times up until a decade ago. Then things went downhill from there. This doesn't mean we lost the benefits and privileges of the memberships we paid for.

 

[Johnn]

Theo,

We had good time with friends here and made money years ago.

John

 

[Theo]

Of course, John. You can therefore confirm that what has been said here about existing memberships is true. And as a former co-op owner, I am sure you can share whether the removal of these credentials happened on your watch or not.

 

[Theo]

On a side note, this announcement from a year ago confirms that Epik tossed out all paid accounts:

news - DNForum.com 2022 - Important Announcement

Dear Member, DNForum is undergoing an overhaul in 2022, starting with a management change from Feb 2022. I, Anita Walker, am taking over as DNForum Director from David Walker @amplify. I would like to firstly thank David for his massive contribution in setting up the bones of the forum in 2021...

dnforum.com

So there you have it.