news An important note on lifetime accounts

Dear DNForum members,

This is an important note to all lifetime membership holders (memberships of any type).

I would like to inform you that after careful consideration, I am considering canceling all lifetime memberships on DNForum.com. While I understand that this may come as disappointing news to some of our members, we believe that this is a necessary step to ensure the long-term sustainability of our forum.

In 2 words: Lifetime offers are Unsustainable

I am sure, you understand that maintaining a forum of this size on the internet is a costly endeavor, and unfortunately, the people and companies who sold lifetime memberships did not consider the long-term costs associated with running a forum. I believe that every business must be able to sustain itself, and I hope that all DNF members can appreciate this decision to ensure the longevity and very existance of our community.

The plan is: Effective May 31, 2023, all lifetime memberships will expire. Moving forward, the primary difference between a free account and a full account will be the ability to have a signature, larger inbox, and access to exclusive forums.

I encourage you, and all of our members to discuss this decision in this thread over the next 30 days, until May 30, 2023.

Look, the winners will be everybody! This will help us to get a new life into the DNF, and I am 100% confident that we will be able to have much more new content and visitors than it has today, and that the winners will be everybody.

Nobody enjoys a niche business forum that is weak!

Best regards,
Helmuts

 

[Theo]

Here's what we paid at the time for Exclusive:

Help Wanted

I am in need of a professional web-template that can be installed around Domain Seller Pro (PHP). If you will visit http://www.dandydomain.com you can see what the site currently looks like. I simply want a template installed around this site that I can modify. Template needs to have minimum...

dnforum.com

 

[dragonzpit]

Theo I'll 2nd that, this forum has no traffic, and the charm is long gone. But I mean they have made the acquisition and I understand their stance of getting their money back on their investment.

If I can recall and if you can 2nd that, I paid for platinum membership and it wasn't for a $100 or even $300, it was somewhere close to $1k, they had all tiers, the owner at the time had yearly, quarterly and lifetime option available.

 

[rocket]

The bottom line is I won't be subsidizing the new owner's acquisition costs. If my account/activities are part of the domain's supposed worth, why should I pay again just to have basic features such as a signature? I mean, you might as well disable all non-paying accounts.

Sorry mate, you're delusional if you expect us to debate what a hosting server costs monthly etc. Either you run a forum and build your base up or you don't. Expecting existing members to pay again the membership tier price annually is a hard no from me.

DNF has been sold so many times it's really impossible to find content indexed on the internet. From the previous vBulletin software to xforo the transition killed all the links! One or two sales of the forum ago - lost count - the incompetent mods removed all sigs and even the membership tier indicators! So now you want me to prove to you I paid for my lifetime membership from 2004? It went to Adam Dicker's pocket and that's it. If you want to monetize the forum you need to find advertisers.

Think this state statement is a big JOKE? @Theo, is there a chance you still have a receipt? .. I understand this happened a long time ago, and still.. ?

 

[Helmuts]

The bottom line is I won't be subsidizing the new owner's acquisition costs. If my account/activities are part of the domain's supposed worth, why should I pay again just to have basic features such as a signature? I mean, you might as well disable all non-paying accounts.

Sorry mate, you're delusional if you expect us to debate what a hosting server costs monthly etc. Either you run a forum and build your base up or you don't. Expecting existing members to pay again the membership tier price annually is a hard no from me.

DNF has been sold so many times it's really impossible to find content indexed on the internet. From the previous vBulletin software to xforo the transition killed all the links! One or two sales of the forum ago - lost count - the incompetent mods removed all sigs and even the membership tier indicators! So now you want me to prove to you I paid for my lifetime membership from 2004? It went to Adam Dicker's pocket and that's it. If you want to monetize the forum you need to find advertisers.

Good morning,

Thank you for your thoughts.

Let us be real: profit is not the legitimate purpose of DNF >> its purpose of business is to provide you and other domain investors a reliable platform to do business (that domainers need) and do it well the DNF needs to be profitable.

Nobody is enforced to upgrade their accounts. This is the status thing, nothing else, that states "I'm serious about Domaining today, and doing Business today at DNF".

Good news: DNF is safe (it was in risky waters), and fully operational and I have a good runaway for it to continue providing its services for all domain investors. And the future of DNF is great as well as it is related to the London Domain Summit.

Have a great and profitable Friday all!
Helmuts

 

[Castion]

Thank you for your offer.

Running a successful Forum, growing it, and approaching as a business in modern world can't be done with lifetime payments made to God knows which company in number before us.

This is a business, the same as every domainer's business, and every business needs an incoming money stream or it goes under. Weak DNForum is in nobody's best interests.

How long can $400 take you for a 128Gb ram dedicated server (just the database is close to 40Gb)? .. let us not get started here, please.

Lifetime memberships were given out free of charge like candies on Halloween. This is a mess that needs to be sorted out.

This is a 30-day notice, and if no serious objections come in > this will be implemented.

After that, when you see the badge "ELITE", you know that this person means business.

All the success all to your businesses!!
Helmuts

Well we ran the forum on 8 cores and 128 GB for less than 300$ per month on average and certainly the traffic is not higher today. If you need some help finding a good host let me know. But as Theo said, its a bit of a mute point. Running from liabilities is exactly what killed this forum under Dicker.

 

[Biggie]

Wow!!! 30k posts!!! Awesome!!

Also, was DNF good for the business?

Hi

if you click on a members "feedback" score, then you can see the volume of business conducted here in the past.

and i'm not talking about the $10 > $30 sales, as many felt comfortable doing 4,5,and 6 figure deals here.

the dollar volume of transactions was off the chiz-zain!

the incompetent mods removed all sigs and even the membership tier indicators!

Hi

that was an admin move when forum changed hands, and not something a mod could do
and i did voice my concerns at the time.


imo....

 

[Helmuts]

Well we ran the forum on 8 cores and 128 GB for less than 300$ per month on average and certainly the traffic is not higher today. If you need some help finding a good host let me know. But as Theo said, its a bit of a mute point. Running from liabilities is exactly what killed this forum under Dicker.

Thank you for your kind offer. I have made a great deal with Terrahost, and the dedicated server will stay with them They are awesome!

Best! H

 

[Helmuts]

Guys (and ladies),

At DNF, many individuals have made significant wealth over time, and several domain investors have established successful careers. DNF is the most seasoned business forum for domain name investors.

If the heritage of the Original DN forum were to wither away, would that be satisfactory to you? It is very strange to see some experienced domainers shitting on the good name of DNF at Twitter.

It is not my intention.

Also, members who will allow themselves to cross the lines by being abusive will be removed from this forum. The rules are simple: be friendly, and do business.

Aren't we all here to do business?

Have a great and productive Friday all!!
H

 

[MapleDots]

Well we ran the forum on 8 cores and 128 GB for less than 300$ per month on average

Hey @Castion

Nice to see you kicking around, I always enjoy conversing with current and former admins.

I see some of your handywork is still present on the forum

There are a lot of hurt feelings (or hurt pocketbooks) right now but I'm hoping eventually everything gets settled and DNF finds its niche. I'm rooting for everyone to come to some sort of mutual agreement and for DNF to gain some traction.

The only advice I can offer would be to slow the change down a bit and discuss it through with affected members to see if there can be a mutual resolution. That may be best done in the background on a case by case basis.

Anyway... nice to see you participating again.

 

[quadnames]

Dear DNForum members,

This is an important note to all lifetime membership holders (memberships of any type).

I would like to inform you that after careful consideration, I am considering canceling all lifetime memberships on DNForum.com. While I understand that this may come as disappointing news to some of our members, we believe that this is a necessary step to ensure the long-term sustainability of our forum.

In 2 words: Lifetime offers are Unsustainable

I am sure, you understand that maintaining a forum of this size on the internet is a costly endeavor, and unfortunately, the people and companies who sold lifetime memberships did not consider the long-term costs associated with running a forum. I believe that every business must be able to sustain itself, and I hope that all DNF members can appreciate this decision to ensure the longevity and very existance of our community.

The plan is: Effective May 31, 2023, all lifetime memberships will expire. Moving forward, the primary difference between a free account and a full account will be the ability to have a signature, larger inbox, and access to exclusive forums.

I encourage you, and all of our members to discuss this decision in this thread over the next 30 days, until May 30, 2023.

Look, the winners will be everybody! This will help us to get a new life into the DNF, and I am 100% confident that we will be able to have much more new content and visitors than it has today, and that the winners will be everybody.

Nobody enjoys a niche business forum that is weak!

Best regards,
Helmuts

The lifetime users made dnforum. Now they are going to be kicked to the curb? Why not grandfather in anyone who has been with you for five years or more. I was a user the first day it launched. Honestly, I can give you five ideas off the top of my head that would yield DNF millions in 3-5 years.

I mean this with respect but I have never heard of you. Would like to though. I think DNF never had a true business development person. It’s been ran as a forum and not a profit center. So business models that could expand its services and products haven’t really saw any fruit due to lack of business development experience. It’s not enough to have ran a business and then say you have business development experience (not you personally). It’s a set of tools, relationships, vision and cradle to grave customer focus.

the user base at DNF has some of the most talented and resource rich people on the planet. Yet, those talents and opportunities are not harvested.

They could be though! I would welcome ab opportunity to video chat with you to give you a few services and products that would create renewed interest in DNF and draw in people that never gave domain names a thought but could see opportunities in them if it was pitched properly and it demonstrates opportunity beyond and

Dear DNForum members,

This is an important note to all lifetime membership holders (memberships of any type).

I would like to inform you that after careful consideration, I am considering canceling all lifetime memberships on DNForum.com. While I understand that this may come as disappointing news to some of our members, we believe that this is a necessary step to ensure the long-term sustainability of our forum.

In 2 words: Lifetime offers are Unsustainable

I am sure, you understand that maintaining a forum of this size on the internet is a costly endeavor, and unfortunately, the people and companies who sold lifetime memberships did not consider the long-term costs associated with running a forum. I believe that every business must be able to sustain itself, and I hope that all DNF members can appreciate this decision to ensure the longevity and very existance of our community.

The plan is: Effective May 31, 2023, all lifetime memberships will expire. Moving forward, the primary difference between a free account and a full account will be the ability to have a signature, larger inbox, and access to exclusive forums.

I encourage you, and all of our members to discuss this decision in this thread over the next 30 days, until May 30, 2023.

Look, the winners will be everybody! This will help us to get a new life into the DNF, and I am 100% confident that we will be able to have much more new content and visitors than it has today, and that the winners will be everybody.

Nobody enjoys a niche business forum that is weak!

Best regards,
Helmuts

Helmut,

a lifetime membership was a contract. IMO, cancelling a contract based on a new owner leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth. It is us, the people who registered for lifetime membership and we’re there since day one who made DNF.

speaking for myself, cancelling a contract without some benefit to the subscription holder will just add to the things that have been done to DNF members at no fault of their own.

Honestly, if my lifetime subscription is cancelled then I would cancel DNF. Over the decades I’ve been with DNF and the thousands of new domainers I have sent there for all of these years would leave with me. You asked me on Twitter, has DNF treated me badly? There have been unethical, illegal and just plain bad behavior that has occurred.

I can suggest five things today that wouldn’t require a subscription and would make far more than a subscription based business was model. I’ve never been asked about my suggestions because DNF only sees itself as a forum and a domain site. It could be far greater then that.

 

[quadnames]

HI

You bring up an interesting perspective.

to me
dnf, when conceived, was not a business,
it was a forum that provided a platform for it's members, to do business.

as it grew, so did it's value
therefore, advertisers wanted to be seen here
and buyers and sellers wanted to be here, because this was the place to be.

lifetime memberships were an investment for those who bought them and an investment in the future of the forum.
it also showed that people were willing to put their money where their mouth is, by purchasing these accounts.
as badges gave credibility.

the difference between those who came after Adam is that they made the forum free for all and removed all badges and membership levels.
but if the forum is going to reinstitute the same model of free/premium and exclusive (corporate), while dropping those prepaid levels who helped finance and sustain it.. then to George's point -
that may alienate some, especially if/when you only considered them as liabilities, without accounting for the asset of their past and potential future contributions.

as a draw, lure, hook or bait, one could consider allotting those perks to previous exclusive/premium members who opt to come back.
and since "word of mouth", moves faster than the smell of shit, then getting off on the "good foot" would be good publicity.
in that situation, you're investing on the potential effect from a goodwill offering.

and if anyone is counting, that's 3 goods in a paragraph!

imo....

Exactly! You’ll lose more domainers than you gain. You announce buying DNF and a month later your giving the middle finger to the people who built the brand
Aka the user? If you cancel me, I will cancel DNF. All of the thousands of recommendations I’ve given to new domainers to use dnf go with me.

 

[dragonzpit]

@Helmuts guess you've heard the word from veterans.

So, the choice even back then was yearly, quarterly and lifetime plans.

At the very moment, yes you need to sustain and pay your hosting bills etc. and yes, I do see that there is not enough traffic on this forum, you need to think of an alternative to generate that revenue.

You can start something similar to Michael Cyger >> DNAcademy, he just recently sold it to Godaddy, so creating that for beginners or even vets or something special can definitely help you generate revenue.

 

[jerrychang]

I hope the forum can continue to operate better.

 

[Helmuts]

Exactly! You’ll lose more domainers than you gain. You announce buying DNF and a month later your giving the middle finger to the people who built the brand
Aka the user? If you cancel me, I will cancel DNF. All of the thousands of recommendations I’ve given to new domainers to use dnf go with me.

Good morning,

Please don't exaggerate

--

This is a Business Forum that provides free service for You and many other domainers to Do Business and network with each other.

Profitability is the lifeblood of any business = the only way for it to continue delivering value to their customers. Can you, as a business person who promotes ROI, realy disagree to this?

Lifetime offers are Unsustainable = people selling them are either inexperienced or irresponsible (or do that on purpose).

.. I am surprised that this needs to be explained in a business forum.

--

What are you losing really?

Please be more specific on what you are afraid to lose, so that we can address the issue in its core.

btw, your website ReturnOnInvestment.com doesn't resolve.. you might wish to fix it.

Have a great weekend,
Helmuts

 

[Helmuts]

@Helmuts guess you've heard the word from veterans.

So, the choice even back then was yearly, quarterly and lifetime plans.

At the very moment, yes you need to sustain and pay your hosting bills etc. and yes, I do see that there is not enough traffic on this forum, you need to think of an alternative to generate that revenue.

You can start something similar to Michael Cyger >> DNAcademy, he just recently sold it to Godaddy, so creating that for beginners or even vets or something special can definitely help you generate revenue.

Michael Cyger is an absolutely fantastic business man. Please show me a significant DN business that he hasn't exited with a profit > by selling his communities. The greatest part > he makes sure that his communities are in even greater hands after they are sold.

I will repeat: People or businesses that sell Lifetime subscriptions do not intend to respect that.

For example, the hosting industry is brimming with numerous new hosting companies that enter the market, offering lifetime hosting plans to attract initial users. They quickly exhaust the newly gained money on various business-related services, and sometimes to cover their personal expenses (quite normal), only to shut down their operations when they run out of money. To make matters worse, they then establish a new brand and repeat the cycle all over again.

 

[Helmuts]

@Theo and @dragonzpit, is there a specific functionality you guys don't want to lose? Is it the signature?

Guys, let us get to the core

 

[Helmuts]

Those who do not understand the History of Lifetime memberships and why this should be addressed.

Let the numbers speak:

DNForum has 392,504 Lifetime Memberships



and the results:


====

Does this explain the magnitude of the previous Lifetime charities?

 

[Castion]

@Helmuts Why are you asking for discussion when you obviously do not want it?

Calling people "inexperienced or irresponsible" when they disagree with you does not further a civil discussion. You say you are "frankly surprised you need to explain that".. Frankly I am surprised you are asking for feedback if you already think that people who disagree are "inexperienced or irresponsible". Discussion is not one person "explaining" why the other party is wrong, its two parties trying to understand each-other.

I think this post was supposed to be an olive branch to the veterans of this forum. It now reads like quite the opposite.

Remember you are now the owner, asking for discussion, but already in post three mentioning banning people is not inviting.

 

[Biggie]

This is a Business Forum

Hi

this is a domain forum, for members to conduct business related to the buying and selling of domain names.

to say it is a business forum, is vague. as it must be a specific type of business.

imo...

Michael Cyger is an absolutely fantastic business man

Hi

Michael was active member, but Adam started dn college here, before dn academy was conceived.

Adam gave a few members their own sections, including Theo for domaingang.com and Michael to promote the sherpa videos.

thru those videos, is how Micael gained the notoriety, by interviewing other prominent domainers like Rick, etc

that following helped to grow dnacademy.com when it was launched.

the point:

it was the growth of a domain forum that drew others here, because they heard or read about what was going on and wanted to be a part of it.

now, the people that you may alienate, could be the same folks who others may want to learn from, interact with and if their budgets are high enough.... to even do business with.
because they are the one's most likely to hold some of the best names, have more experience and could share more knowledge than the newbies who could/would replace them.

do you want this to be just another kiddie forum, with a lot of noise and no in-depth conversations and discussions?

what are folks who don't know much about domaining, going to talk about.... how to sell keto in india??
what kind of domains will they post for sale?
how likely are any of the names going to be, of premium or high quality?

i'm just throwing other thoughts out there as observations to consider.

imo....

 

[DNF Admin]

it was the growth of a domain forum that drew others here, because they heard or read about what was going on and wanted to be a part of it.

I understand your point, but despite all the valid arguments you mentioned, the forum went down to the position where it is now. Of course, I exaggerating, but maybe the talk about how to sell keto in India isn't the worst option.