legal Balance of payments issue from leading industry domainer/broker Kevin Leto

[Gerry]

The theory of new investors inflow paying the old investors outflow seems to make sense. That is speculation of course, but I think the claim that that site made adsense income is a crock.

That's the AMWAY model and pyramid scheme.

 

[eeedc]

I think Kevin is a good talker but the bottom line is that there seems to be no money left to pay razorblade back the money he and others are owed.

The rest of this thread is psycho babble.

-=DCG=-

It sounds like Kevin is a good talker and salesperson. I would suggest career restructuring to capitalize on sales ability, and forget about financial engineering or speculation.

There are plenty of good products, designed by others, that need to be sold.

 

[Domainate.com]

That's the AMWAY model and pyramid scheme.

Which is also the definition of a ponzi scheme, which is why I'm sort of uncertain why the thread title needed to be changed. Selling crap to someone and promising to make them money from one method and actually paying them back from new investments is almost worse than simply not telling them what the returns would be paid from - you're not only flat out lying to them, but you're abusing their trust in the process since you know telling someone to pay you X money and you'll pay them Y monthly is much harder to sell them on - almost anyone doing investment wants to know roughly how the money gets made, and lying to them and blaming poor economy when your real scheme doesn't work out is simply unacceptable in every possible way.

If he really was intending on buying and flipping a $100k name, he should have simply done a group buy and at the very least, if he couldn't resell the domain for profit, "bad economy" would actually be a viable excuse. Here, it's not.

I think that is more accurate and have to apologise for the sensationalist headline.

However, I dont believe I ever deserved to be treated in the way i was treated over the last six months and certainly not for the last two months - especially that I made it very clear to Kevin that I was relying on that income to see me live month to month.

I know I never would ever treat anyone this way let alone someone who started out in such a positive manner.

Hopefully you learned your lesson from this as well. I can't exactly blame people who throw money into a prayer when things get tough, but to expect to make money without hard work right now is mistaken. Even if you instead threw the money at a domain that you then controlled and could put something up on and try to monetize, your fate would be in your hands instead of someone else's.

---------- Post added at 01:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:10 PM ----------

Weird, I can't seem to edit my post, but wanted to add that it's crap like this that is why we aren't seen as mainstream as real estate/stock market/etc. and why we're still company to the likes of MLM, timeshares, etc. The average person thinks we're out to screw them because some people in this industry unfortunately are and spoil it for the rest of us.

 

[glaxxon]

Please people, stop trying to understand the business model/idea. We know there is something totally scr**ed up about it. Whatever the reason may be, bottom line is it didn't work. So stop asking about it.

Also no one wants to know if the payment plan is still on or not. You might keep delaying this for years. So basically Kevin OP has the following choices:
1. Pay up everyone in one go right now.
or
2. Give a concrete date (when you will pay back your clients)

There is no need to beat around the bush. No explanations, just choose your option now.

 

[AhmedF]

Friendly reminder: lots of people were also scammed through minisites.

 

[glaxxon]

Friendly reminder: lots of people were also scammed through minisites.

So Kevin should either finally give a date for completion or refund the money right away.

Only dates now. No more BS.

 

[staffjam]

and other services!

 

[razorblade]

There have been two scams running concurrently - a ponzi scheme where people were promised guaranteed returns when all they got were newer investors money. This was sold as a 100% guarantee, with no risk to be held by the investor. So far we are talking a minimum 15k swindle there.

Secondly AND JUST AS IMPORTANTLY.....kevin leto scammed people by taking deposits for development work and either did sweet **** all or produced work that was so substandard that it was not worth setting up a site with such crap in the first place.

People both within and outside of the domaining industry got hit hard.

Just for people to realise just how malicious and conniving Kevin Leto has behaved is the fact that he knows i am suffering from a severe lung disorder, take oxygen therapy 24/7 and have no means of income other than a semi decent .tv portfolio that i own. He still chose to take my money despite having stopped paying another major investor his fixed income yet saw fit to take my money.

I dont think we will see any more comments from kevin leto as he must realise by now that he is hanging himself with every time he pipes up his bull. This thread is indeed a trainwreck for him and now i am guessing he will be hankering down for some damage limitation.

I do realise that i was taking a big risk in ever seeing my money again by going public with this scambag....but it will be the best money i have ever lost, because it bought me integrity.......everyone now knows the black hole that is kevin letos investment and development schemes that he pulls off on as many unsuspecting prey as possible.

A one time con artist takes the money and runs, someone who has the balls to con a multitude of people stays in touch, in communicatuion...trying desperately to keep everyone happy with promises of money coming just around the corner to keep peoples hopes up, but even more important, to keep them quiet.....

Well Kevin leto, you coulnt buy me off and as a result we are truly seeing just what you have been doing to many many people who put their trust in you.

Now go hang your head in shame Mr Leto

 

[Gerry]

The average person thinks we're out to screw them because some people in this industry unfortunately are and spoil it for the rest of us.

Because we are...out to screw them.

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 PM ----------

Please people, stop trying to understand the business model/idea.

To join in (or avoid) something, you have to understand it. Exposing the workings hopefully will ring bells (in your head) when (in the future) someone approaches you about this great plan how you can make a pile of money with no risk to you (and your money).

 

[WhoDatDog]

Welcome to the real world of business. Some of you people don't understand the concept of being broke. The guy is obviously cash poor and can't pay back the money. When you figure out that this has been going on since the beginning of time then maybe you will elarn how to deal with it. Every single major bank in the United States was going to zero until the United States taxpayer bailed them out. Every single Wall Street firm was getting a run on the bank until they were bailed out.

The bottom line is that in business obligations are sometimes not met. That does not mean that the person is a scammer. I have never even dealt with Kevin, but I recognize the name. You would be surpised how many people in the world can get under the gun and then be forced to juggle many balls to stay afloat.

I couldn't care less about this specific situation, but I will tell you all that one day you just might get in a jam, and even though your intentions were honorable, you might not be able to make good on your debts when they are due. I know a scammer when I see one, and what I see here is someone who needed some cash and did what he could to try to stay afloat by creating a bit of a confusing business idea instead of just asking for a loan at 20 percent.

You guys should be able to figure out that when crap names are involved in a real money transaction, that the odds greatly increase that something bad is going to happen. There are a bunch of people piling on. Where were these people when I was outing real scammers left and right around here when the times were good?

You guys mostly get what you deserve. Domaining is going down the toilet and most everyone is helping to FLUSH away any legitimate opportunity at real world credibility you will ever get.

 

[David G]

The more and more I think about this the more confused I get, especially from a buyers viewpoint because as mentioned before, why would a very experienced domainer think golfingvideos.net was worth $750 or even a fraction of that (especially in view of other extensions being unreg'd such as .org), and why would he want the domain (but in retrospect the site does get better traffic than you would expect but traffic source is unknown)? I just don't get the whole thing?

 

[AhmedF]

Welcome to the real world of business. Some of you people don't understand the concept of being broke. The guy is obviously cash poor and can't pay back the money. When you figure out that this has been going on since the beginning of time then maybe you will elarn how to deal with it. Every single major bank in the United States was going to zero until the United States taxpayer bailed them out. Every single Wall Street firm was getting a run on the bank until they were bailed out.

The bottom line is that in business obligations are sometimes not met. That does not mean that the person is a scammer. I have never even dealt with Kevin, but I recognize the name. You would be surpised how many people in the world can get under the gun and then be forced to juggle many balls to stay afloat.

I couldn't care less about this specific situation, but I will tell you all that one day you just might get in a jam, and even though your intentions were honorable, you might not be able to make good on your debts when they are due. I know a scammer when I see one, and what I see here is someone who needed some cash and did what he could to try to stay afloat by creating a bit of a confusing business idea instead of just asking for a loan at 20 percent.

You guys should be able to figure out that when crap names are involved in a real money transaction, that the odds greatly increase that something bad is going to happen. There are a bunch of people piling on. Where were these people when I was outing real scammers left and right around here when the times were good?

You guys mostly get what you deserve. Domaining is going down the toilet and most everyone is helping to FLUSH away any legitimate opportunity at real world credibility you will ever get.

You are an idiot. Yay!

 

[doc24]

I had this person trying to sell a domain for me and he tried to double dip me by telling me a client was willing to pay a certain amount and wasnt paying commission, so I was going to pay it and then I found out he WAS getting a commission from the buyer ALSO. Both ways. I sold the domain through another broker who in fact was dealing with the exact same buyer. I have since used that broker twice more and I dont believe there is a better broker around as far as I am concerned, Big Ticket is a waste of time. Andrew Rosener with Media Options is professional and very honest as far as my dealings with him...Give him a call if you need a professional

 

[KRL]

Good Morning,

First James, I will not now nor ever hold my head in shame. If someone is not of good intent
they don't stand their ground, explain the situation, and defend their ideas. Especially with the
openess and verocity I have on here. I am one of the hardest workers in this business. I am not
perfect nor are you nor is anyone. If everything was perfect in the world why would even the
biggest and best companies need customer service departments to handle issues and gripes?

I've been on here explaining the deal that you yourself thought was a brilliant solution and
went out to test market as well. I acknowledged all the points that were good about it
and the ones that should be tweeked.

The beta of this was very limited, not some mass effort like you've tried to make it out to
be. Every client got their domain purchased and on payments you yourself are up to
10 of your 12 income payments on your first 3 domains.

I've sent you $5350 for your FID revs, and $1750 for the domain I sold for you. $7,100 in all.
If that is something of malness I'm baffled.

I'm not going to repeat myself further on the program itself since I've explained the ideas
and everything already thoroughly on here. Some people have said good idea, some have said
flawed idea, some don't understand the idea, some didn't understand it at first and now do.

The 8 clients who parcipated are very bright and successful obviously and surely thought about the
solution before deciding to buy their domains through it.

All new ideas and innovated monetization platforms are just that NEW. And with anything NEW sometimes
the idea works perfectly, sometimes partially well, and sometimes fails. Heck as bright as the GENIUS engineers
are at APPLE they had problems with something as simple as the Daylight Savings Transistion this week in
their products. I've acknowledged everything here about the idea.

You've made your points as well and everyone can judge for themselves and form their opinions.

In terms of development projects I've done lots of sites for people and my own domains. Some sites do well
some don't. Development work takes huge amounts of creative energy when you are doing many sites. Sometimes
you get drained and fatigued from coding and creating. When that occurs you have to step back and recharge
or you'll produce errors in your work. Sometimes developers get overloaded and behind. I've paid for work myself
to large dev firms that said it would done on a particular timeframe and I don't even recall a single company I hired
over all my years where they got finished on schedule. You do your best to get your dev work done as fast as
possible for the client. But if you rush your work just to meet a particular day the work results are just that rushed.
I like doing my creative work as perfect and as professionally completed as possible. And most of the sites that are
labeled as mini sites are done for such small amounts of cost for the clients that they aren't even profitable for the
developer, but you do them regardless because you hope a client will stay with you for the long haul and have you
do other things down the road like selling domains for them too.

Whoever is the person is now trying to attack my brokering with an outright lie and recommending go with media options instead
you are full of BS. My brokerage clients have been with me for years and they wouldn't trust me representing their best valuable domains if I
was excellent at what I do for them and don't get great results.

I'm totally exhausted from so much typing and bickering on here James. You've made some good points and I have too. I've acknowledged
mistakes. I've acknowledged dev work can take longer to complete than planned. I don't want to bash you back. I don't want to hurt you.
I want you to be a happy camper and have your final payments completed so we can't put this dramatic and challenging episode behind us
and have everyone pleased, profitable and 100% paid up and satisfied. That is my objective right now and I give you my word on that.

At the same time, trying to bash me more and more, only makes it harder to complete my work to fulfil your final payments. You can call
me everyday if you like and I will give you daily progress updates until full resolution of our issue is achieved.

So again I am holding my head high, not down. I'm taking your blows, dealing with them, explaining things, not running, not hiding, not being bogus.
I am being forhtright, candid, and direct in all my statements to you and I will continue to do so. I am a professional individual and will not come on
here and get into a bashing back and forth mode. I want good results for all my clients. And I am working day and night on this matter so you will
post on here KEVIN has succeeded and there are no further gripes between us.

For a date I will tell you I am in the finishing days of a large domain sale from my own portfolio that will enable me to fund the FID program
to resume payments until completion. And you can call me to discuss further more specific details on the timing.

Peace and goodwill,

Kevin

---------- Post added at 04:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 AM ----------

Good post WhoDatDog!

I like many others in this business decided the best and safest place to protect assets when the economy,
real estate, stocks, the value of the dollar and everything else dived off the clift in the last couple years shifted to Domains
for proetection, figuring anytime you wanted to move back into dollars you could just cash out via selling a domain. And
that was a successful strategy, but then the domain market started to be impacted too like every other asset class. So
it's not as easy and quick as in the past to shift your assets back out to cash anytime you wanted to.

Still the domain market is vibrant even though it is a complete buyers market now. It just takes much longer to get a good
price for your domain asset being marketed. But of every asset class out there, I still have the most confidence in the
long term value of .com domains as a solid investment.

Some of my wealthiest clients did the same strategy of asset protection and plowed as much as possible into domains and
now have had the same impact and are emailing in the past several months saying they need to get cash back out of their portfolio.

 

[eeedc]

The bottom line is that in business obligations are sometimes not met. That does not mean that the person is a scammer,

This was the point of my first post on page one even before he was name. Defaulting does not mean one is a scammer, much less a Ponzi scammer.

and what I see here is someone who needed some cash and did what he could to try to stay afloat by creating a bit of a confusing business idea instead of just asking for a loan at 20 percent.

People usually max out all credit cards and other legitimate funding sources, before resorting to unconventional, borderline at-best fund raising to stay afloat.

Not every business bounces back. There is a time to throw in the towel. It's hard to bounce back paying 20% or more.

---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

The more and more I think about this the more confused I get, especially from a buyers viewpoint because as mentioned before, why would a very experienced domainer think golfingvideos.net was worth $750 or even a fraction of that (especially in view of other extensions being unreg'd such as .org), and why would he want the domain (but in retrospect the site does get better traffic than you would expect but traffic source is unknown)? I just don't get the whole thing?

Some people went with the deal because it was “guaranteed” by an “established” domain “professional” who may or may not own “valuable” domain names such as Men.com.
Does he really own men.com or is he brokering it, have it mortgaged, in debt to partners?

 

[FormerDnForumer]

I don't know why anyone with some perspective would call Kevin a "scammer", but there is definitely a house of cards quality to all this, and worst of all, the unwillingness or inability to pay off this poor guy his $1600 speaks something about Kevin, and it's sad he can't see it. I suspect it's ego, which is the last to go when someone is falling off a financial cliff. 90% of the gas of this thread would deflate if Kevin just made that small effort right away--like today.

Additionally, if someone said to me "you should have been happy with the payments your received given the economy" I would consider that about as close to an abrogation of that person's word and contract as you could get, and put him in the business trashcan immediately.

People can forgive a lot Kevin, especially when there is humility, frankness and genuine action. All the blah blah blah above is just distasteful pablum meant to placate instead of resolve.

Need $1500?

---------- Post added at 10h17 ---------- Previous post was at 10h12 ----------

I don't think anyone with some perspective would call Kevin a "scammer", but there is definitely a house of cards quality to all this, and worst of all, the unwillingness or inability to pay off this poor guy his $1600 speaks something about Kevin, and it's sad he can't see it. I suspect it's ego, which is the last to go when someone is falling off a financial cliff. 90% of the gas of this thread would deflate if Kevin just made that small effort right away--like today.

Additionally, if someone said to me "you should have been happy with the payments your received given the economy" I would consider that about as close to an abrogation of that person's word and contract as you could get, and put him in the business trashcan immediately.

People can forgive a lot Kevin, especially when there is humility, frankness and genuine action. All the blah blah blah above is just distasteful pablum meant to placate instead of resolve.

Need $1500?

edit: sorry left out a word.

 

[AhmedF]

There are tons of stories of people having paid $ for minisites many many months ago with zero contact back.

That is a scam folks. This isn't hard.

 

[eeedc]

Need $1500?

I wouldn’t recommend it, but if any of you think Kevin is good for the money, you could buy RazorBlade’s loan off RazorBlade for $1,500.

The problem is that no one here has the skills or knowledge to make unsecured loans. What other debts does Kevin have? Credit card debts. A house under water in FL? Business loans? Business disputes over minisites? Partnership deals? What assets (domain names) does he have? What other income does he have?

 

[FormerDnForumer]

There are tons of stories of people having paid $ for minisites many many months ago with zero contact back.

That is a scam folks. This isn't hard.

I was referring to the payment program. If you and others were scammed on mini site development, I believe you.

 

[David G]

There are tons of stories of people having paid $ for minisites many many months ago with zero contact back.

That is a scam folks. This isn't hard.

I suspect it's more likely to be an issue involving a sad combination of cash flow/financial difficulties, poor liquidity, combined with cash flow problems and work/information overload. Just guessing and only my 2 cents.