Membership is FREE, giving all registered users unlimited access to every DNForum feature, resource, and tool! Optional membership upgrades unlock exclusive benefits like profile signatures with links, banner placements, appearances in the weekly newsletter, and much more - customized to your membership level!
Sedo - Global Domain Report Survey 2025

For Sale Detagged/Suspended UK names

Status
Not open for further replies.

davidthornton

Exclusive Lifetime Member
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by Genki


Martin,

If you can say, is one side-effect of this delayed whois going to be the fact that NT insiders will always get an 8-16 hour "window" ahead of the general web population on expired .co.uk names?

Nominet only update the WHOIS on dropped names, if they haven't been registered, on Sunday night. So if a name dropped on a Monday, and it wasn't registered, the WHOIS will still say suspended on that name until the following Sunday.

jakinternet.co.uk is an example (crap name I don't want - some old ISP that folded). That name dropped in the middle of last week (I know). But WHOIS it and it'll tell you it's suspended. You also won't be able to register it anywhere because all UK tag holders that sell names to the public determine the availability of a UK domain name by doing a WHOIS on the name. Only a tag holder can query the database live and determine whether a domain name is actually available and subsequently register the name if they want it. Then, and only then, will the WHOIS be updated that night.

It isn't practical for a UK tag holder to query a name live, when a customer possibly expresses an interest in registering it. The automation system is controlled by email, so it would take too much time for a response to be returned. Until Nominet impliment a new system, there is nothing that can be done.

I believe there's no easy way to do realtime whois checks on the .uk domain space (if I'm wrong, I'd love to know where I can do that kind of search) so that only an organization such as NT, which is doing an automated diff, can see what's dropped during that "dead" time interval.

Only tag holders can, using the email automation system.

If that's the case, and if NT employees are allowed to register names without Tracks on them for their own account (is this permitted in your organization?) then that means that all "desirable un-Tracked names" will by default end up being owned by NT employees.

Correction. Any tag holder is in the same boat as Nametrack and can do the same. Nametrack have stated that they have back orders on a selection of names, from before the site was opened. However they don't monitor searches on their site and they haven't back ordered any new names since they launched the site.

I emphasize that there's nothing inherently wrong if the above hypothesis is correct, but it would be to your credit to confirm or deny this publicly, I believe.

Any tag holder can do it. Pay £400 + VAT to join Nominet and a recurring £100 + VAT annual fee and you can do it too.

What Nametrack offer, that other tag holders don't, is a good public-facing service for Joe Public (who isn't a tag holder) to get a name that may drop as soon as it does. Yes they do register a few names for their own use, but Martin has said that they don't monitor searches etc. If they did, I am sure it would be noticed and that would be to the detrement of the business Martin is trying to build.
 

davidthornton

Exclusive Lifetime Member
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by Genki


Why not add another state, apart from "active", "detagged" and "suspended" and call it something like "dormant"

The definition of "dormant" is "a domain that was registered within the last 48 hours by the NameTrack system"

A 'pending' box would definitely be appropriate, like on Namewinner.

The NT system would bar tracks on "dormant" names... and the dormant status would migrate to "active" after 48 hours.

After the WHOIS had been updated I guess. I suppose it could remain like that for a couple of months even.

The above would kill 2 birds with 1 stone:-

A) It serves to eliminate the possible confusing situations like the one under discussion in this thread
B) It acts as an ongoing advertisement for the quality/effectiveness of NT's service - the more dormant names people come across, the more they will believe/understand how useful NT's service offering is

Obviously they're only going to come across a 'pending' name by searching on Nametrack for it.
 

davidthornton

Exclusive Lifetime Member
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by NeilUK
Hello all

Well here's my story, just been into dnchat to find that something I thought I had only just discovered had was already being discussed here, thanks for the link safe:)

Tonight I re-checked a list of avail track detagged .co.uk domains, which I have built up since "last week", to my suprise Dictionary.co.uk showed as active? so thinking it must have been renewed or something I click the whois and find NT (Mreeves) has got it.

This gets me thinking, so I ask a couple of people who also use NT "when NT are successful with a track does their info appear in whois for a day or so, then change to the successful party, now I find I,m wrong and Martin is actually the successful party.

Conclusion:-

1.) Blob is correct regards the track being avail last week for dictionary.co.uk
2.) My initial thought was Ok I missed out why didnt I track it myself when it was avail.
3.) First come first served is fine "but" it does raise eyebrows Martin, things like this dont go un-noticed.
4.) NT are new and I am sure they will be very successful, who else offered such a service before NT? there are still as Martin says plenty of good .co.uks awaiting a track.

Just wanted to give my thoughts.

GL

I just want this clear in my mind, once and for all, because what you have written above isn't very clear. :)

At any time, since the NameTrack site has launched, have you ever searched for 'dictionary.co.uk' on the site AND seen that it wasn't back ordered?

Martin (NameTrack owner) has stated that this name has always been back ordered since before the site went live (to himself). I understand that Blob2 believes that it wasn't back ordered when he checked it on NameTrack for the first time. Then, when he checked it again, it was and the name ended up registered to Martin.

I *don't* have *any* reason to doubt that Martin is telling the truth and I believe that he *is* telling the truth.

What are you saying *exactly* on this? Are you agreeing with Blob2, that it wasn't back ordered when you looked the first time or are you saying something else?

We obviously want to clear this up once and for all, so there is no confusion.

Thanks. :)
 

Guest
correct me if i'm wrong, but presumably we have a situation like this:

prior to 15:25 on 2nd september the name was showing as backordered if searched on nametrack

at 15:25 2nd september nt registers the domain as it drops - the whois at nominet will not reflect this as it runs a batched update system

approx 10am 3rd september the whois at nominet updates reflecting the new registration

---

At which point was the domain updated on your system to reflect it was taken (i.e. the backorder removed and the checkbox enabled)? As the responses are sent by email from nominet was this performed manually or are you parsing emails?

Was the update to active performed as a result of scanning the whois the following day or is it linked to the above update?
 

mreeves

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by safesys
At which point was the domain updated on your system to reflect it was taken (i.e. the backorder removed and the checkbox enabled)? As the responses are sent by email from nominet was this performed manually or are you parsing emails?

Our system removed the back-order and enabled the checkbox as soon as we received and parsed the email automaton response from Nominet to say it had been successfully registered. In hindsight this something that needs to be changed in our system as it has lead to all this dictionary.co.uk confusion.

Regards
Martin
www.nametrack.co.uk
 

mreeves

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Thanks for your great suggestion. We will be working on rectifying the situation in the next few days.

Regards
Martin
www.nametrack.co.uk
 

NeilUK

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
May 7, 2002
Messages
75
Reaction score
0
At any time, since the NameTrack site has launched, have you ever searched for 'dictionary.co.uk' on the site AND seen that it wasn't back ordered?
------------------------------------------------
I searched for it on 3rd sept and it wasnt back ordered thats why I added it to my list of detagged and avail for track yesterday I discovered NT owned it

So I agree with blob regards it being avail for track originally

I think there has been an error somewhere which has led to this confusion I also have no doubt martin is a stand up honest guy that is offering a pioneering service
 

Guest
if martin regged it on the 2nd, then it wouldn't be showing as backordered on the 3rd because of the systems works as it removed the backorder once the names are grabbed.
 

mreeves

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by safesys
if martin regged it on the 2nd, then it wouldn't be showing as backordered on the 3rd because of the systems works as it removed the backorder once the names are grabbed.

safesys is spot on here ... we did indeed reg it on the 2nd as is shown in the whois record. A fix to avoid this confusion in the future will be implemented shortly.

Regards
Martin
www.nametrack.co.uk
 

mreeves

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
A fix is now in place. Basically you can no longer back-order domain names that are have been suspended more than 42 days (this is the point in time when they are likely to be deleted). When this happens the domain name back-order will be shown as 'not available' rather than 'taken' (unless of course it was back-ordered prior to this cut off point). The reason for using this approach rather than some others that have been suggested is because it is the only feasible approach that eliminates both of the following scenarios which were possible under the old system:

1) a domain name is shown as suspended and available to back-order but has already previously been back-ordered and grabbed by NameTrack but the whois information has not updated yet.
2) a domain name is shown as suspended and available to back-order but has already been grabbed by another drop catcher but the whois information has not updated yet.

Apologies if this is all getting a little confusing but these steps are necessary due to the way the registry operates.

Regards
Martin
www.nametrack.co.uk
 

NeilUK

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
May 7, 2002
Messages
75
Reaction score
0
A potential negative turned around very quickly into a positive.

People working for the benefit of both parties show a bright future for Nametrack.

On another note, publicity wise I didnt see much on the opening of Nametrack.co.uk , first I saw was when martin posted at DNF, nothing in dot net magazine or similar products or sites? why was that
 

mreeves

Level 3
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by NeilUK
On another note, publicity wise I didnt see much on the opening of Nametrack.co.uk , first I saw was when martin posted at DNF, nothing in dot net magazine or similar products or sites? why was that

There was coverage in trade magazines such as New Media Age and Revolution, and coverage on a number of online sites such as Demys. Hopefully we'll get coverage in the more consumer orientated publications such as dot net and internet magazine shortly - you need to bear in mind that these are monthly magazines and NameTrack has only been around 3 weeks.

Best Regards
Martin
www.nametrack.co.uk
 

Edwin

DNF Addict
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2002
Messages
1,389
Reaction score
1
Two things you really need to grow your service quickly:-

A) Discounts for bulk buys. I can't say exactly how much, but I'm not that big a SnapNames buyer and they're still giving me a VERY nice discount!

B) An affiliate program, preferrably 2-tier
 

AMERICAR

Level 6
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2002
Messages
630
Reaction score
2
Thanks. Nametrack .. MReeves'

I am very happy with my result from .. Nametrack.co.uk


:laugh:


.

.
 

davidthornton

Exclusive Lifetime Member
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by AMERICAR
Thanks. Nametrack .. MReeves'

I am very happy with my result from .. Nametrack.co.uk


:laugh:


.

.

Which are...? ;)

NameTrack is a great service. They picked up some nice names today from what I have seen.
 

Edwin

DNF Addict
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2002
Messages
1,389
Reaction score
1
I'm pleased to have been able to grab newspapers.co.uk thanks to NameTrack!
 

davidthornton

Exclusive Lifetime Member
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by Genki
I'm pleased to have been able to grab newspapers.co.uk thanks to NameTrack!

;) I wondered who got that! It was one of three I kicked myself for missing.
 
D

detagged

Guest
I represent www.detagged.co.uk and we run the SnatchBack! service which monitors and registers soon to drop detagged domain names.

We were the first Nominet member to launch a monitoring and registration service for the .uk namespace. NameTrack has only been live for a few days and so far has only registered a handful of domains for clients. Most of the names that they claim to have obtained for clients on their site are in fact registered in the name of the Managing Director, Martin Reeves.

Our service, the clear market leader, has registered a considerable number of names for clients and our service is 50% cheaper and lasts for an unlimited period of time. Reeves' service lasts for just one year or the life of his company, whichever is the shorter. The NameTrack team's dubious claim to fame is to have lost many millions of pounds of investors' money in ShopSmart.com that was finally sold to BarclayCard for a price that did not even cover the initial investment. Hardly candidates for the Businesspeople of the Year award.

We of course welcome competition and both products do the job.

Just to recap, ours is £29, is long established and monitors your domain for an unlimited period of time. NameTrack costs around 50% more at £45, has only been established for several days and only monitors your domain for 1 year. Both prices to have VAT applied.

www.detagged.co.uk
 

davidthornton

Exclusive Lifetime Member
Legacy Exclusive Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2002
Messages
354
Reaction score
0
Originally posted by detagged
I represent www.detagged.co.uk and we run the SnatchBack! service which monitors and registers soon to drop detagged domain names.

I think this may have been more appropriate in a new thread, since its substantially different. Anyway, too late now. :)


We were the first Nominet member to launch a monitoring and registration service for the .uk namespace. NameTrack has only been live for a few days and so far has only registered a handful of domains for clients. Most of the names that they claim to have obtained for clients on their site are in fact registered in the name of the Managing Director, Martin Reeves.

Nametrack launched their service on 27th August 2002. A selection of names were backordered by the owner, Martin Reeves, *before* the service went live. He has acknowledged this on this forum and also mentions hasn't back-ordered any other names for himself since the launch of his service.


Our service, the clear market leader,

Stop right there if you will please. :) I've never heard of you before. Actually I have, but only in the last week, and more on that below. Since I have never heard of you before, I am afraid you are not the clear market leader as far as I am cocerned. However it's interesting that you claim that you are. :)


has registered a considerable number of names for clients and our service is 50% cheaper and lasts for an unlimited period of time.

Okay. Would you be prepared to list some of the top names that you have registered for clients, here, for us to see please?


Reeves' service lasts for just one year or the life of his company, whichever is the shorter.

I'm sorry but, personally I would find that a little offensive if I were Martin. Even though I am not, I think you've lost some credibility already by coming on here and posting this sort of thing about an obvious competitor. :)


The NameTrack team's dubious claim to fame is to have lost many millions of pounds of investors' money in ShopSmart.com that was finally sold to BarclayCard for a price that did not even cover the initial investment. Hardly candidates for the Businesspeople of the Year award.

I wouldn't know. However again, I think that it is highly inappropriate for you to come on here and post that. It's totally irrelevant to the spectrum of this forum and nothing to do with anything being discussed in this thread.


We of course welcome competition and both products do the job.

Funny. I was getting the feeling that someone around here didn't like the competition at all. :)


Just to recap, ours is £29, is long established and monitors your domain for an unlimited period of time.

But does it get results? If so, name them here. :) Also, can you beat NameTrack at names? If so, name one you have beaten them too since they launched? :)


NameTrack costs around 50% more at £45, has only been established for several days and only monitors your domain for 1 year. Both prices to have VAT applied.

However we've all seen the results. Here are a few:

dictionary.co.uk - pre-ordered by Martin (of NameTrack)
discount.co.uk - pre-ordered by Martin (of NameTrack)
newspapers.co.uk - client
classiccars.co.uk - client
rich.co.uk - client
skill.co.uk - client
steroids.co.uk - client

Some of those were in the last few days.

Show us your results. :)

and now, with reference to the above where I mentioned I'd only just heard about your service very recently.

Here are a few URLs from your web site:

Your homepage:
http://www.detagged.co.uk/


I'll leave that for others to view and pass comment on, although it lists a few names.

Your service:
http://www.detagged.co.uk/detagged_domain_new.htm


Quoted from the site:
...we now operate the only programme of its kind in the UK to monitor and then secure soon to be released detagged .co.uk and .org.uk domain names.

I guess you'll need to change that now. :)

Quoted from the site:
The SnatchBack! programme operates by maintaining a database of domains wanted by our clients on a powerful Sun Microsystems dedicated server permanently connected to the Internet. Our automated registration system attempts to register each of these domains on a daily basis with Nominet's Automaton (the name for their asynchronous registration system) and the other global registries corresponding to the desired domain suffix. We have already secured numerous domains for our clients that in some cases were in detagged or on hold status for several years.

You mention 'SUN Microsystems servers' - yet it's only a RaQ4-512. Is that supposed to impress me? I think you'll fool the uneducated but you won't fool me into believing that a rebagged Cobalt raq will make any difference.

Also you mention that your system attempts to register names on a daily basis. If that really is the case, then I am afraid your service is next to useless for any desirable domain name.

I won't go into what else is on that page.

A page about your competitors
http://www.detagged.co.uk/other_outfits.htm


entitled 'Why not to use "domain monitoring" outfits'. Hmm. I don't see any other drop catching service world wide saying that on their site. I'd have thought that it would be better to cover all bases myself.

Anyway you list reasons why not to use other services (clearly you are referring to NameTrack):

1/ Most of these outfits have sprung up in the past few weeks or even past few days. We have been in business for 19 years. We will be around in another 19 years, will they?

This is irrelevant. I don't care how long you've been around. All I care is whether you can get me the domain name I want. :)

2/ Anyone can design a fancy website and make bold promises but do they have the technical competence to do what they claim they are doing? We host thousands of websites for clients all over the World and have our own servers in data centres in London, Nottingham and Dallas, US. One of our servers is the very latest Sun Microsystems RaQ4-512 server that runs the SnatchBack! system and is permanently connected to the Internet and interfaces directly with Nominet's Automaton to attempt to register your desired domain name every single day, 365 days a year.

Anyone can design a fancy web site? You appear to be unable too, if you don't mind me saying so. :)

The rest of the stuff is bordering on embaressing from your point of view. As I said above you might impress the domain name illiterate, but you won't impress me with that.

3/ With the one exception mentioned above, none of these outfits are members of Nominet. Nominet is the body setup by the UK Government that handles the registration and renewal of all .co.uk, org.uk .ltd.uk plc.uk and sch.uk domain names. Only Nominet members who are also "tag holders" can interrogate the "Automaton", Nominet's central domain registration system. Anyone else has to rely on Nominet's publicly available whois that is sometimes up to 24 hours out of date. A particularly desirable such as shopping.co.uk will almost certainly be being tracked by several Nominet members simultaneously. So even in the highly unlikely event that your low price monitoring service does everything that it claims and sends you an email advising that your domain is now available, it will probably already have been registered by a Nominet member like us 23 hours previously!

So who are these other outfits that aren't Nominet members?

4/ Even if you do get the email and no-one else has beaten you to it you still have to find a registrar to register it for you. You could go to NetNames and pay their £100 charge for the privilege or even worse find a lowball service like UK2 who would claim to register it for "2 pence" and then pay hidden fees of hundreds of pounds over the course of the year. Our one low price includes all registration fees for the first 2 years. With our service, as soon as the domain is available we register it for you in your name. Immediately. No messing about with sending you emails to say that it was available as of 23 hours ago. When we send you an email it will be to say we have registered your domain and where would you like it to point to. No messing around, no fuss, we just get the job done.

You can also use a host of other UK resellers such as Clicknames and 123-reg who are great for UK domains. NameTrack includes 2 years of registration with any name they snap.

Summary:

Your whole attitude, both in here and on your web site, makes me not want to have anything to do with you. :) I'd been briefed on your web site just over a week ago and hadn't heard about you until then. When I read through your site I was astonished that someone offering a commerical service would stoop to the level you have done with what you have published online.

You should not be slatting your competitors in the way you have so obviously done. What you should be doing is competing with NameTrack and the rest through the results of your service. I have to tell you that the names you have listed at the foot of:

http://www.detagged.co.uk/detagged_domain_new.htm

are unimpressive to me. However those that NameTrack have grabbed do impress me.

I'll tell you and everyone else what I think. I don't think you can compete with NameTrack at all. I think you know that and I think it will be obvious to everyone else that you cannot either. :) Martin's launched a service which whips yours and you know it. The only thing your service has going for it is it's called 'detagged.co.uk' which will draw people in on that merit alone.

If your service was any good, we wouldn't be seeing this appauling display by yourself, on here and on your web site. We'd be seeing your excellent results.

So I suggest that you think about your entire P.R. strategy and post your results on here. If you cannot compete with NameTrack then I am sorry, but that is business. In this game you compete and get results or you disappear. :)
 

AMERICAR

Level 6
Legacy Platinum Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2002
Messages
630
Reaction score
2
Arrr ... Shusckss... Detagged ....

I never heard of you before now .. nor had i even considered a
.co.uk .. name before NameTrack (Martin Reeves) arrived here.

Your publicity team needs up-grading.

NameTrack .. got me the name i shot for... it's in my name! not his.

As far as i am concerned personal revelations about someone disqualifies you from any future .co.uk names that i may go after.
even at a 50% saving. . totaly unnecessary.

NameTrack .... earned the right to any future business from me.

Americar.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Who has viewed this thread (Total: 1) View details

Who has watched this thread (Total: 4) View details

The Rule #1

Do not insult any other member. Be polite and do business. Thank you!
IT.com

Premium Members

Upcoming events

Our Mods' Businesses

*the exceptional businesses of our esteemed moderators

Top Bottom