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Dnf Whining Thread
- Thread starter parwold
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The day this place goes paid, is the day I leave. No, that isn't some comment to start some revolt. I am well aware, my absence is not a big deal as I do not add much value amongst the community. However, I was one of the few pioneering members who gave this board a chance as well as activity when the "big time" speculators wouldn't. It's a smack in the face.
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Originally posted by NamePopper.com
cmason22 - fair enough. At least you are still here - and making suggestions.
Please guys/gals - don't just jump ship on us. Talk to us. If the amount of work and time we put in here means anything to you - talk to us. I can't guarantee anything except that if everybody just argues back and forth - then nothing will get done for sure.
*popper tickles everybody under their chins*
You are joking Nick aren't you - "talk to us"? - When we ask a question or make a comment we're told to "go take a walk". I havn't made a decision as to which membership to select but I'm already being treated like a pariah and told to "move on"! :sad:
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Mr Webname you of all people should be happy with the membership plan. People will be less likely to do crap like shill bid, if they risk $50 by doing it. If membership fees were not implemented scumbags would commit auction fraud and get banned. Then they would just sign up for another account.
DomainSage tried to sign up for an account after he was banned for shill bidding. There is a method to my madness. I know some of you guys will key on the previous sentence.
DomainSage tried to sign up for an account after he was banned for shill bidding. There is a method to my madness. I know some of you guys will key on the previous sentence.
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Biggedon - It is true that you don't have to pay for a while. Otherwise how else could you have just made that post? Also - if you are not selling anything here - then you don't need to 'create' threads in the advertising section - therefore you don't need to sign up for a 'Platinum' account. It's not necessary or mandatory at all. Most of the people who are making the biggest fuss - and leaving - are 'Gold' members anyway. If they would stop for minute long enough to grasp the big picture - they would see that they have lost little if anything - and they don't have a need for the Platinum account. You know what I'm saying?
Roger(MrWebName) - I certainly have not treated you like that in any way - at any time. On the contrary - we have had great chats - even a nice biz transaction - and joked around with each other.
Roger(MrWebName) - I certainly have not treated you like that in any way - at any time. On the contrary - we have had great chats - even a nice biz transaction - and joked around with each other.
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NamePopper, i owe you this... here is what i think should have happened:
First introduce a voluntary membership syste. Do not take away any features from non-paying members. Introduce an entry special. THose who become mebers in the next 30 days get a discount or a coon title ('Founder') or something.
Second, after a few weeks, introduce additional membership features. Features like a larger mailbox, or the ability to switch avatar at will without paying DNF.
Third after a few months, restrict the live auction to paying members only. Keep all the other forum features accessible, including posting domains for sale. Make a members-only sale section which anyone, even guests could browse but not post in. make the non-members sale section only visible to registered members. THis way, everyone can offer domains for sale, but paying members have theirs exposed to the outside world.
Collect a small fee on every 'Domains wanted' thread ($2 ?)
Next, create a dispute commitie formed of selected members, aimed at sorting out member disputes. Create a private forum section where the commitie will hold dispute hearings.
Take the owner out of the picture. Meaning, gregr should not take any action on anything. He should direct the mods and the mods should take all action. Its one thing to think a mod is a dick and another to think the the people who own the place treat you like you are nothing. Where was the last time you heard the CEO directly talking to a regular joe in the billing department? Follow the chain of command. Whatever it takes, do not let the public think that the bad decisions are coming from the owner.
Create a dispute email form, a feedback form, etc. Let members email their concerns and not post insults, etc. in the public forums.
Make everyone feel good, but make paying members feel special. Nobody should feel deprived. Treat everyone with respect. Make being a member something to be proud of. Paying members should get advanced features. If you want to distinguish them from regular members, give them addons, dont take things away from the regulars!
If this was the case, i would pay you $50 right now. Sadly, its not how things are going down.
Thats what i have to say,
First introduce a voluntary membership syste. Do not take away any features from non-paying members. Introduce an entry special. THose who become mebers in the next 30 days get a discount or a coon title ('Founder') or something.
Second, after a few weeks, introduce additional membership features. Features like a larger mailbox, or the ability to switch avatar at will without paying DNF.
Third after a few months, restrict the live auction to paying members only. Keep all the other forum features accessible, including posting domains for sale. Make a members-only sale section which anyone, even guests could browse but not post in. make the non-members sale section only visible to registered members. THis way, everyone can offer domains for sale, but paying members have theirs exposed to the outside world.
Collect a small fee on every 'Domains wanted' thread ($2 ?)
Next, create a dispute commitie formed of selected members, aimed at sorting out member disputes. Create a private forum section where the commitie will hold dispute hearings.
Take the owner out of the picture. Meaning, gregr should not take any action on anything. He should direct the mods and the mods should take all action. Its one thing to think a mod is a dick and another to think the the people who own the place treat you like you are nothing. Where was the last time you heard the CEO directly talking to a regular joe in the billing department? Follow the chain of command. Whatever it takes, do not let the public think that the bad decisions are coming from the owner.
Create a dispute email form, a feedback form, etc. Let members email their concerns and not post insults, etc. in the public forums.
Make everyone feel good, but make paying members feel special. Nobody should feel deprived. Treat everyone with respect. Make being a member something to be proud of. Paying members should get advanced features. If you want to distinguish them from regular members, give them addons, dont take things away from the regulars!
If this was the case, i would pay you $50 right now. Sadly, its not how things are going down.
Thats what i have to say,
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I know it's a little late in the game for this suggestion but I think you guys should rethink the paid model and take another look at trying to make the advertising model work. Maybe if you added button ads on the side you can scrape up more advertising dollars... take a look at www.amdforums.com . That, in addition to charging fees for specific services auction listings might work. I just think that for an online community going "paid" means killing traffic and growth and dnforum is starting from too small a base to survive this. Just my opinion. I wish you guys luck and I may even pay to join myself... haven't decided yet.
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Absolutely true Nick, my comments were not aimed at you, I took it that you were speaking for "the management" and it is from there that the comments have been forthcoming.
Maybe if Gregr took a more conciliatory tone when questions are asked or reasonable comments or requests are made then the whole situation would be quite different than it is at the moment.
Just consider for a moment - I happen to have been in and online most of today, but if I had been out, as I often am, I would have checked the forum in the morning and when I came back in the evening I would have found myself partially locked out! Now even with your "Management" hat on you must see that that is no way to treat your "customers".
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If you still think i am talking out of my arse, here is the kind of reply a decent post gets from the owner:
http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=161322#post161322
And to think i even considered paying the $50.
http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=161322#post161322
And to think i even considered paying the $50.
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K
kingdon
Guest
Gregr, the mob is now leaving!!! I really enjoyed this forum and sold my first good domain for 1K today, but it was other people that taught me the way. It was all of us who pitched in the ideas and helped to brainstorm the forum. And in return we get a bill for $50, and you get another pool. I think you went to far with this and will soon regret it. It's not the $50, it's the lack of appreciation for those who make this place work, the members.
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I have been a member here since June of 2002, which is a longer time than Greg and most of the mods here. I have some good friends here and have had the pleasure to get to know a lot of great folks since I became a member here. The amount of info and contacts I have received from this forum has been very valuable to me. However, now it seems like something is about to change all that...
I don't know if it is just me or, but I have sensed a lot of hostility on this forum lately between the management and some of the members. I have read some of the postings made by some worried members about the new membership system. I do understand why some people and worried and concerned regarding this change. I mean this was initially a community where fellow domainers got together to learn and share at no cost.
Now I'm afraid that this community will be gone as soon as people have to start paying to become members. Why? Just simply because it won't be a community anymore where everyone who wants can particiapate. In my opinion this has nothing to do with how small or big the fee is. It's the essence of paying for something that should be free, and was free initially.
In Ester Dyson's book "Release 2.0", she states that the Internet has made it possible for people to actually start thinking that their voice matters by the help of establishing Web communities. The core that holds a community together is the free flow and the sharing of information among its members.
Just look at all the big domain people we have managed to get to this forum: drop cathing companies, lawyers, domain registration companies etc. That shows that this community has an importance. The moment you have to pay to access something that ought to be free, the "real" community will be gone.
I guess the question that needs to be asked here is: Do you want to run a open domain community or a private resource site for domain speculators? I don't think you have both under these circumstances.
Thanks!
I don't know if it is just me or, but I have sensed a lot of hostility on this forum lately between the management and some of the members. I have read some of the postings made by some worried members about the new membership system. I do understand why some people and worried and concerned regarding this change. I mean this was initially a community where fellow domainers got together to learn and share at no cost.
Now I'm afraid that this community will be gone as soon as people have to start paying to become members. Why? Just simply because it won't be a community anymore where everyone who wants can particiapate. In my opinion this has nothing to do with how small or big the fee is. It's the essence of paying for something that should be free, and was free initially.
In Ester Dyson's book "Release 2.0", she states that the Internet has made it possible for people to actually start thinking that their voice matters by the help of establishing Web communities. The core that holds a community together is the free flow and the sharing of information among its members.
Just look at all the big domain people we have managed to get to this forum: drop cathing companies, lawyers, domain registration companies etc. That shows that this community has an importance. The moment you have to pay to access something that ought to be free, the "real" community will be gone.
I guess the question that needs to be asked here is: Do you want to run a open domain community or a private resource site for domain speculators? I don't think you have both under these circumstances.
Thanks!
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Just to add my 2â:
I will probably go for the fee....DNF has been a great resource for info and meeting some good people. I can see the value. But $50 is going to scare off alot of folks....
A good example was AOL in its beginning....
I was a "host" of the advertising/graphics forums...We had a great community...lots of true pros...all of the major and minor graphics software companies had forums...tons of posts....access to excellent networking as well as a great many other benefits....personally I sold many a illustration to people/business' I met there.
Then came the day when AOL...felt it was needed to charge all the Companies that drew the people, for their space and usage of the service. Which wasn't unexpected...but AOL went about sending all these companies..big and small a bill for 50K a year. Needless to say none of the companies went for this...some have since, the companies that survived...but the whole community model is no more. Had it been more reasonable or maybe scaled over time, I don't think that the community would have dissolved.
Aol's move killed the community...they were too busy doing their accounting rather than to see the value the companies and the community brought to it.
My input for the membership here would be...give some discount consideration for the members that have been around for awhile...without them DNF would not be...as someone said early...the name DNForum.com is not what made this site what it is today...the members did.
I can appreciate that their are major costs incurred here...but $50 is too high to start and too high to make "founding" members pay. With a membership of what 1300 x $50...thats like $65K in total ... Please remember that alo of the people here that are the little guys or the new guys or the quiet guys etc .... won't always be that in a alot of cases. There is always time and opportunity to build the fee schedule...rather than getting it all upfront. I assume that plans are for DNF to be around for awhile...so whats the hurry?
Will the membership gained from the fee outweigh the community that will leave?
I doubt it....
Thanks for taking the time to read..
z
I will probably go for the fee....DNF has been a great resource for info and meeting some good people. I can see the value. But $50 is going to scare off alot of folks....
A good example was AOL in its beginning....
I was a "host" of the advertising/graphics forums...We had a great community...lots of true pros...all of the major and minor graphics software companies had forums...tons of posts....access to excellent networking as well as a great many other benefits....personally I sold many a illustration to people/business' I met there.
Then came the day when AOL...felt it was needed to charge all the Companies that drew the people, for their space and usage of the service. Which wasn't unexpected...but AOL went about sending all these companies..big and small a bill for 50K a year. Needless to say none of the companies went for this...some have since, the companies that survived...but the whole community model is no more. Had it been more reasonable or maybe scaled over time, I don't think that the community would have dissolved.
Aol's move killed the community...they were too busy doing their accounting rather than to see the value the companies and the community brought to it.
My input for the membership here would be...give some discount consideration for the members that have been around for awhile...without them DNF would not be...as someone said early...the name DNForum.com is not what made this site what it is today...the members did.
I can appreciate that their are major costs incurred here...but $50 is too high to start and too high to make "founding" members pay. With a membership of what 1300 x $50...thats like $65K in total ... Please remember that alo of the people here that are the little guys or the new guys or the quiet guys etc .... won't always be that in a alot of cases. There is always time and opportunity to build the fee schedule...rather than getting it all upfront. I assume that plans are for DNF to be around for awhile...so whats the hurry?
Will the membership gained from the fee outweigh the community that will leave?
I doubt it....
Thanks for taking the time to read..
z
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Hi GregR,
Thanks for keeping a great forum going, and adding to it, also!
Some valid points:
+ The members are what makes this place valuable.
+ $50 is too much for a great number of the members.
+ If that kind of payment is necessary to stay a part of this forum, a great number of the members will leave, and therefore with the community gone, there will be little reason for new members to join.
+ If you absolutely must charge a fee, please consider the following...
I think Point8T had a great idea:
+ Make the payment voluntary to receive extra services
... Like being able to post a small banner ad in every post under your avatar for example, and switching avatars without charge, etc...
Please don't just take away features that keep so many valuable members coming back and contributing.
Cheers!
Thanks for keeping a great forum going, and adding to it, also!
Some valid points:
+ The members are what makes this place valuable.
+ $50 is too much for a great number of the members.
+ If that kind of payment is necessary to stay a part of this forum, a great number of the members will leave, and therefore with the community gone, there will be little reason for new members to join.
+ If you absolutely must charge a fee, please consider the following...
I think Point8T had a great idea:
+ Make the payment voluntary to receive extra services
... Like being able to post a small banner ad in every post under your avatar for example, and switching avatars without charge, etc...
Please don't just take away features that keep so many valuable members coming back and contributing.
Cheers!
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I'd probably pay for access. Even if it means being flamed by the occassional punk. Of course if I was paying for platinum access I would expect more than just putting them on my ignore list.
A Kill-User feature would be a plus
Kidding Aside:
I'm just not sure about the direction the marketing gurus are taking.
The coolest thing about this forum for me was the $DNF.
It gives incentive for users to post.
Not that there really worth anyhing considered in the time it takes to make a decent post.
Why not get the funds from the users in other ways.
If they are making money off of selling their domains.
Make the selling domains section payable by $DNF only.
Imagine that! Your own true $currency that could compete with the dollar
You could easily keep track of the exchanges and take a percentage of the sale and you would'nt have to charge any up front fee. It's set to one domain listing a day anyway.
If users want to list more than one a day charge em an extra $1 or 2$
I know that tracking the sales of $DNF sounds complex and you'll always have your cheaters but.
It wouldn't be that hard to do. You already have the info you need. IP's for one. But any good hack could set the thing up to check for domain transfers and operate the $DNF exchange.
The majority of the users on this forum would be honest enough to pay a percentage of a sale anyway.
If thats not enough.
Have a EULA that the user has to agree too before they even post a domain for sale. If the domain is tranfered within a 30-90 day period you collect a fee if it wasn't sold via $DNF
Sounds complex but its just data...good data = $$$$$$
Cheers!
A Kill-User feature would be a plus
Kidding Aside:
I'm just not sure about the direction the marketing gurus are taking.
The coolest thing about this forum for me was the $DNF.
It gives incentive for users to post.
Not that there really worth anyhing considered in the time it takes to make a decent post.
Why not get the funds from the users in other ways.
If they are making money off of selling their domains.
Make the selling domains section payable by $DNF only.
Imagine that! Your own true $currency that could compete with the dollar
You could easily keep track of the exchanges and take a percentage of the sale and you would'nt have to charge any up front fee. It's set to one domain listing a day anyway.
If users want to list more than one a day charge em an extra $1 or 2$
I know that tracking the sales of $DNF sounds complex and you'll always have your cheaters but.
It wouldn't be that hard to do. You already have the info you need. IP's for one. But any good hack could set the thing up to check for domain transfers and operate the $DNF exchange.
The majority of the users on this forum would be honest enough to pay a percentage of a sale anyway.
If thats not enough.
Have a EULA that the user has to agree too before they even post a domain for sale. If the domain is tranfered within a 30-90 day period you collect a fee if it wasn't sold via $DNF
Sounds complex but its just data...good data = $$$$$$
Cheers!
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....i didn t pay to become member just to stay here , but to get all the new bennefits -snapnames etc -
this forum has to grow ,give more solutions to members , otherwise it will die as every business....and that costs..
you may like YMCA but you sure PAY to go to the best club in your town....
this forum has to grow ,give more solutions to members , otherwise it will die as every business....and that costs..
you may like YMCA but you sure PAY to go to the best club in your town....
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It essentially has already started. Existing non-paying members can no longer start threads in the advertising section. I don't know if there will be restrictions yet to the weekly auctions... I guess we'll find out this weekend. It's all bad... feels like the life is being sucked out of this place.
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