DNJournal Reporting

[dnjon]

And by the way, Schwartz, didn't you insist on your board, in 2002, that the domain I wanted to buy for $10,000 - the name of which I had emailed you - was only worth about $1,500, and that I was off the wall for wanting to pay $10,000? The type-in traffic from that domain, PaydayLoans.com, has earned my company about $1 million over the last two years alone.

Actually I misquoted Schwartz. I found the board archives on my computer and here's exactly what he said. The part above the asterisks is him quoting me from a previous post:

>>>

I don't see how you can think that domain will only make six cents a day, Domain King; I just don't see it. And I don't see how you can think DebtConsolidationPrograms.com is a better domain.
**************************************************************************

I know you don't see it. You are on the wrong path. You can't possibly see it. Jon, the domain you want is worth a few hundred bucks. Maybe even $1500 if you want to gamble.

<<<

He said that even after I pointed out that the Overture Search Suggestion Tool showed over 40,000 searches on the phrase (payday loans) and 263 searches on "thephrase.com" (paydayloans.com). And that several companies were paying $5-6 per click for searches on the phrase (payday loans) at Overture.

Ask the King about it when you meet him at the TRAFFIC conference this week.

 

[Creature]

Paydayloans.com : Reg fee in my opinion. However I wouldn't even pay that.

The great thing about domain appraisals is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and nobody knows for certain until sold.

Anyway on pay-day you get cash, you don't get a loan. The domain doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[TheLegendaryJP]

The whole " pay day " thing is one of the fastest growing businesses in the country. For just dozens of stores several years ago to XXXX's and profits are growing each year. There was a whole thing on tv about 3-4 weeks ago.

 

[DomainFatigue]

.

 

[CashCowDomains]

..

 

[Creature]

^ Perhaps because I am from the UK. PayDayLoans is a new expression to me. I can see how it is valuable now but a few years ago I wouldn't have blinked at it.

Correction........a few minutes ago I wouldn't have taken a second look. Didn't know until now about TV ads etc, common lauguage term in the US etc.

 

[CashCowDomains]

..

 

[DomainFatigue]

.

 

[izoot]

Actually I misquoted Schwartz. I found the board archives on my computer and here's exactly what he said. The part above the asterisks is him quoting me from a previous post:

>>>

I don't see how you can think that domain will only make six cents a day, Domain King; I just don't see it. And I don't see how you can think DebtConsolidationPrograms.com is a better domain.
**************************************************************************

I know you don't see it. You are on the wrong path. You can't possibly see it. Jon, the domain you want is worth a few hundred bucks. Maybe even $1500 if you want to gamble.

<<<

He said that even after I pointed out that the Overture Search Suggestion Tool showed over 40,000 searches on the phrase (payday loans) and 263 searches on "thephrase.com" (paydayloans.com). And that several companies were paying $5-6 per click for searches on the phrase (payday loans) at Overture.

Ask the King about it when you meet him at the TRAFFIC conference this week.

So what's your point Jon? This is the reason this whole clusterf#$k of a thread was created? Because he didn't praise the domain? OR may have not have actually thought much of the domain at the time? No one is perfect ... not Rick, not you, not anyone.

Appraisals generally don't mean kaka in the real world and when looking for appraisals on names from competitors you just may not get the appraisal you would expect. Big deal ... from what you said you've made over a million from the domain ... shouldn't you be laughing all theway to the bank instead of mulling over this "appraisal"?

I think I know what will make you feel better. " You were right the domain was worth more that $1500 "

All good now?

Paydayloans.com : Reg fee in my opinion. However I wouldn't even pay that.

The great thing about domain appraisals is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and nobody knows for certain until sold.

Anyway on pay-day you get cash, you don't get a loan. The domain doesn't make any sense to me.

Its actually a great domain and for the past 2-3 years. There are loan stores that have popped up all over offering "pay day loans". If I understand it correctly they will lend money for short term needs ... usually payable on "pay day" when you have the money to repay it w/interest.

And you are right ..everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Most appraisals are just that opinions and should be treated as such. Jon's issue reads like many in the appraisal threads where people get upset or defensive when people don't give them the "appraisal" they would like to hear.

 

[dnjon]

With all due respect, you have enjoyed fortune few ever will, largely do to your foresight (perhaps with a tad of luck or circumstance thrown in). And what do you choose to do with your success? Brag about it on an open forum and publicly tell another individual he was wrong? I don't know either of you and have no dog in this race, so to speak. However, thinking objectively, and putting aside your individual feelings, can you see how that might reflect poorly upon you?

So what's your point Jon? This is the reason this whole clusterf#$k of a thread was created? Because he didn't praise the domain? OR may have not have actually thought much of the domain at the time? No one is perfect ... not Rick, not you, not anyone.

I was following up on what I said to Donna in the fourth response of Post #72 above, which you apparently didn't read or don't remember. I am raising a question about Rick Schwartz's character, in light of the serious questions he has raised about mine above. You didn't criticize him for that, nor ask him to explain what he meant by his false accusation that "others" have blocked my email address due to harrassment, nor have you or he acknowledged that I may have received the phone call I described and said that if such a call was made it was a despicable act that should have no place in our community.

But even if I were only questioning his judgment, that too would be fair game in this thread that was originally about whether DNJournal reporting on Schwartz is over-adulatory and one-sided.

So where is your basis in continuing to criticize me?

 

[DomainFatigue]

.

 

[izoot]

I was following up on what I said to Donna in the fourth response of Post #72 above, which you apparently didn't read or don't remember. I am raising a question about Rick Schwartz's character, in light of the serious questions he has raised about mine above. You didn't criticize him for that, nor ask him to explain what he meant by his false accusation that "others" have blocked my email address due to harrassment, nor have you or he acknowledged that I may have received the phone call I described and said that if such a call was made it was a despicable act that should have no place in our community.

But even if I were only questioning his judgment, that too would be fair game in this thread that was originally about whether DNJournal reporting on Schwartz is over-adulatory and one-sided.

So where is your basis in continuing to criticize me?

All I see here are personal issues gone awry ... and not much substantial evidence to prove anything other than it being a personal issue. Sorry ... its nothing personal. Just going by the thread ... you are asking us to be the "jury" and are getting upset that you can't swing the "jury" your way.

This has all the makings of a major motion picture. Hate, envy, greed, libel, death threats, money among a ton of other crucial elements ... all it needs to complete the script is the love interest and the hero coming to the rescue at the last minute. A real domainblockbuster.com

 

[Creature]

Dnjon, does this all date back to 2002 ?! It sounds almost as though you broke up with a girlfriend and you can't get over her. Anyway,congratulations on earning so much money from the name!

 

[Bill Roy]

DNJon,

I have just read through this whole saga.

The first thing I should point out is that I have had dealings with Ron Jackson (Owner/editor of DNJournal) and in all my dealings he has been forthright, totally honest and helpful, in this business I doubt there is a more respected member of the domaining community. His reasoning for not publishing your 'letter' is at his discretion, and one I fully understand and agree with. His (Ron Jackson's) main concern is to uphold the integrity of the DNJournal and report the industry news, the emphasis being on the word 'news'.

Now obviously from time to time we all see news stories as of varying importance. However, the 'letter' you wrote to the 'editor' did not contain news, and my guess is it is not a letter that can be taken as echoing the main stream of correspondance received by the DNJournal, therefore not a letter that could be chosen for publication as an example of community feeling.

It may be that you have a legitimate grievence against certain individuals (those you have mentioned I have never had any dealings with whatsoever to my knowledge). However, such grievances are not for DNJournal to act either upon or as a showcase for. I actually agree with the point that you make that all groups become incestuous (my wording, not yours) by their very nature, and as such close groupings reinforce their own opinions.

Now your major historic greivance seems to be that your valuation of the domain PayDayLoan.com was ridiculed! You are one of thousands this has happened to (me included let me assure you), and there will be thousands of others it will happen to in the future (unfortunately me included again). You complain to Ron Jackson about biased reporting (again my words), but the fact is that the TRAFFIC conferences are imensely popular and growing in popularity, I myself plan to attend one next year. The speakers will I hope be entertaining and knowledgeable and may correct some misconceptions I have about the industry, but I can bet though that me being me will not agree with a lot that is said, however, that is my burden to carry being a maverick thinker, something obviously you are too (look how you foresaw the value of PayDayLoan.com when others could not see it). The importance of such conferences is in their networking opportunities, something I seem to detect you miss. My advice to you would be to say enough is enough, start being yourself again and let your mind think outside the rigid box of conformity, but only where domains and domain marketing is concerned.

Now finally the case of the threat to your life. This is absolutely unacceptable and thankfully you did the right thing by bringing in the police. The problem is that just by mentioning a name or situation within the same context as this threat here on this Forum that was unwise and did in my opinion go well beyond what should be allowed here. I personally have experienced unfounded attacks on my character here on this Forum, attacks that finally got the culprit banned, so please be warned from one member trying to advise you in a friendly way, sometimes actions can have the opposite effect to those that are wanted. Really do think before publishing anything that could be taken as libellous.

Please Jon, your mind is obviously able to be put to better uses than this present cause. Let us leave this here, we have all taken in your opinion, now let us marvel at your domaining, a far more profitable occupation.

 

[dnjon]

Apparently, you have forgotten that you started this thread. I couldn't care less about Mr. Schwartz. I don't know him personally, or you for that matter. But if you aren't open to contrary opinions, don't post in a online forum. If all you want to do is have someone agree with you, call up a few buddies, and offer to buy the beers that evening...

There's a word for this kind of argument in logic. I don't know what it is, but I would call it a nonspecific put-down. Anyone can say that in response to any argument.

What I was trying to say in a polite way in my earlier post is that someone in your position should be above all this.

Should? There's a fable about how God left his Good Book in a taxi one day, when he got out to take a leak, and the Devil snook in and wrote two words in the book: ought and should. Who are you to say what I "should" be above? Why didn't you say that Schwartz "should be above" attacking my character in the despicable way that he did, earlier in this thread?

All I see here are personal issues gone awry ... and not much substantial evidence to prove anything other than it being a personal issue. Sorry ... its nothing personal. Just going by the thread

Well, I don't think you read very well. Nothing personal, just my opinion.

you are asking us to be the "jury" and are getting upset that you can't swing the "jury" your way.

I'm not asking anyone to be anything. I'm just expressing my opinion in a public forum and I have a perfect right to defend myself when people criticize me for what I feel is no good reason. Again, another nonspecific put-down.

This has all the makings of a major motion picture. Hate, envy, greed, libel, death threats, money among a ton of other crucial elements ... all it needs to complete the script is the love interest and the hero coming to the rescue at the last minute. A real domainblockbuster.com

Very sensitive comment. We'll see how you like it when you are publicly belittled for no good reason, censored, libeled, receive a death threat - and somebody thinks it's very funny.

 

[actnow]

I don't believe I have ever asked for an appraisal.

And, I doubt I would care what someone else thinks the value of one
of my domains might be unless they were buying it.

I can remember being in a high level corporate meeting in 1996 where a well
respected business associate said that he didn't see any value in
acquiring a domain name for a new business project.
(Big mistake - I'm sure that name would be worth $ xxx,xxx today.)

The point being - everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Including Rick S. and others.

And, their opinion can be easily proven right or wrong a couple years
later using "Monday quarterbacking" tactics.

I'm really going to miss reading this thread while I'm at Traffic.
:lol:

 

[dnjon]

I have just read through this whole saga.

The first thing I should point out is that I have had dealings with Ron Jackson (Owner/editor of DNJournal) and in all my dealings he has been forthright, totally honest and helpful, in this business I doubt there is a more respected member of the domaining community. His reasoning for not publishing your 'letter' is at his discretion, and one I fully understand and agree with. His (Ron Jackson's) main concern is to uphold the integrity of the DNJournal and report the industry news, the emphasis being on the word 'news'.

Now obviously from time to time we all see news stories as of varying importance. However, the 'letter' you wrote to the 'editor' did not contain news, and my guess is it is not a letter that can be taken as echoing the main stream of correspondance received by the DNJournal, therefore not a letter that could be chosen for publication as an example of community feeling.

It may be that you have a legitimate grievence against certain individuals (those you have mentioned I have never had any dealings with whatsoever to my knowledge). However, such grievances are not for DNJournal to act either upon or as a showcase for. I actually agree with the point that you make that all groups become incestuous (my wording, not yours) by their very nature, and as such close groupings reinforce their own opinions.

Well, unfortunately you didn't read through the whole saga very carefully, because I made it quite clear that I wasn't criticizing Ron Jackson for not publishing my letter.

Now your major historic greivance seems to be that your valuation of the domain PayDayLoan.com was ridiculed!

Again, this is not what I said. Please read more carefully before you post.

You are one of thousands this has happened to (me included let me assure you), and there will be thousands of others it will happen to in the future (unfortunately me included again). You complain to Ron Jackson about biased reporting (again my words), but the fact is that the TRAFFIC conferences are imensely popular and growing in popularity, I myself plan to attend one next year. The speakers will I hope be entertaining and knowledgeable and may correct some misconceptions I have about the industry, but I can bet though that me being me will not agree with a lot that is said, however, that is my burden to carry being a maverick thinker, something obviously you are too (look how you foresaw the value of PayDayLoan.com when others could not see it). The importance of such conferences is in their networking opportunities, something I seem to detect you miss.

I haven't said a word about the value of the TRAFFIC conferences, nor have I asked or advised anyone not to attend.

My advice to you would be to say enough is enough, start being yourself again and let your mind think outside the rigid box of conformity, but only where domains and domain marketing is concerned.

I generally don't like receiving unsolicited advice, but thanks.

Now finally the case of the threat to your life. This is absolutely unacceptable and thankfully you did the right thing by bringing in the police.

Thank you, you're the first person who has said that.

The problem is that just by mentioning a name or situation within the same context as this threat here on this Forum that was unwise and did in my opinion go well beyond what should be allowed here. I personally have experienced unfounded attacks on my character here on this Forum, attacks that finally got the culprit banned, so please be warned from one member trying to advise you in a friendly way, sometimes actions can have the opposite effect to those that are wanted. Really do think before publishing anything that could be taken as libellous.

I haven't accused Rick Schwartz of anything except for lying about "others" having blocked my emails for harrassment, which is completely untrue and which he explicitly did above. Why are you only criticizing me and not saying anything about that?

Please Jon, your mind is obviously able to be put to better uses than this present cause. Let us leave this here, we have all taken in your opinion, now let us marvel at your domaining, a far more profitable occupation.

I am through posting on this matter unless others are not through criticizing me. If there is more criticism then I may respond, which is only fair. In any event I thank DNForum for allowing this discussion and also thank everyone who has made kind comments, as you have above, or displayed fairness in this matter.

 

[The Pain]

Well Jon, I will be sure to pass on your concerns that you have brought up in this thread, to my fellow particpants at the TRAFFIC show in Miami starting on Tuesday.

I will talk to Rick and Ron to try and get them to understand your point of view. I know it's lonely paddleing a canoe upstream, so let me see what I can do to make others see it your way.

The Pain

 

[izoot]

Originally Posted by izoot
This has all the makings of a major motion picture. Hate, envy, greed, libel, death threats, money among a ton of other crucial elements ... all it needs to complete the script is the love interest and the hero coming to the rescue at the last minute. A real domainblockbuster.com

Very sensitive comment. We'll see how you like it when you are publicly belittled for no good reason, censored, libeled, receive a death threat - and somebody thinks it's very funny.

Jon ... its not that I don't understand your frustration ... it's that in this case you brought it upon yourself. No one would have known word one about this until you started this thread. You started this thread to bring into question Ron Jackson's and DNjournals integrity and honesty when they wouldn't publish your letter. The letter in which you take your personal issues with Rick & John public and call members of Rick's board cult members ( a cult you were happy to be part of until your commentary made you unwelcome there. Hmmm ... )

You made your editorial letter public and apparently wanted responses to it having done so. First, Ron is under no obligation to include ANYONE'S letters on his site. Secondly, you were/are defaming people without any substantial proof ... why would he want to be part to that? Why would anyone if they hadn't experienced it or had it proven to them?

As to the death threats ... as I said its not that I am unsympathetic ... its that you are making totally unfounded accusations by implying/guessing Rick was behind it ( publically ) in private you are welcome to do as you like. I don't know if you actually were called or are creatively embellishing something else to garner sympathy.

In any case ... I've not seen anything that would lead me to think the parties you named would have been involved. I see someone ( you ) who is upset and holding personal grievensenses with these people. If you had just left this thread die all this would have just faded away.

 

[PRED]

Jon ... its not that I don't understand your frustration ... it's that in this case you brought it upon yourself. No one would have known word one about this until you started this thread. You started this thread to bring into question Ron Jackson's and DNjournals integrity and honesty when they wouldn't publish your letter. The letter in which you take your personal issues with Rick & John public and call members of Rick's board cult members ( a cult you were happy to be part of until your commentary made you unwelcome there. Hmmm ... )

You made your editorial letter public and apparently wanted responses to it having done so. First, Ron is under no obligation to include ANYONE'S letters on his site. Secondly, you were/are defaming people without any substantial proof ... why would he want to be part to that? Why would anyone if they hadn't experienced it or had it proven to them?

As to the death threats ... as I said its not that I am unsympathetic ... its that you are making totally unfounded accusations by implying/guessing Rick was behind it ( publically ) in private you are welcome to do as you like. I don't know if you actually were called or are creatively embellishing something else to garner sympathy.

In any case ... I've not seen anything that would lead me to think the parties you named would have been involved. I see someone ( you ) who is upset and holding personal grievensenses with these people. If you had just left this thread die all this would have just faded away.

I've been following this thread for some time. Sometimes with disbelief.
Izoot i think your summary & analysis are spot on.
Jon, heed his advice, let it drop, move on.
Pm a mod & get them to close the thread tbh.
all the best, Predator :rapture: